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Was Roger Williams a (real) Baptist?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
He was for a significant period. However, he was obsessed with the idea of apostolic succession and was too educated and honest to embrace a "trail of blood" type of reasoning.
Being a Baptist involves holding to certain Baptist understandings of scripture, not a membership to a particular church. It is a movement, not something bestowed by ecclesiastical authority.
There are Baptists in all sorts of denominations and casual fellowships, and there are whole churches that have "Baptist" on the sign outside that reject some essential Baptist doctrine (like separation of church and state).
Church membership is only one factor to consider.
37818
Well-Known Member
John Smyth was no more a Baptist than Roger Williams. The only actual Apostolic authority hand down are the New Testament documents. And the common failure for professing Christians to acknowledge this essential truth. Without those New Testament documents which our evidences of the resurrection are based.
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37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
Puritan Controversy #1: Roger Williams – Pondering Principles
This article is a mischaracterization of Roger Williams opposition to oaths as merely sinful. His opposition to oaths was because of Jesus' teaching not to take oaths though. And was another reason for separation of church and state.
An Obscured aspect about Roger William's Manifesto.
History of the Puritans in North America
Roger Williams view on oaths may very well indicate an Anabaptist influence.
This article is a mischaracterization of Roger Williams opposition to oaths as merely sinful. His opposition to oaths was because of Jesus' teaching not to take oaths though. And was another reason for separation of church and state.
An Obscured aspect about Roger William's Manifesto.
History of the Puritans in North America
Roger Williams view on oaths may very well indicate an Anabaptist influence.
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37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
I have never honored nor dishonored him, but I would never put him in the same sentence with Benedict Arnold. The first time I heard of Roger Williams was in grade school. (They used to teach Christian subjects in school.) The last time I heard of Roger Williams was in grade school.
I am more interested in Scripture than I am a man virtually no one has ever heard of. He’s dead now, and will stand before God’s judgment seat, same as we will. God will judge him according to truth.
I appreciate his efforts to further the Gospel of Christ, but I didn’t get my Baptist beliefs from him. I got my beliefs from reading the Bible for myself, before I ever went to a Baptist Church. When I did go to one, I found out they believed what I already believed from reading Scripture, and that’s why I’m a Baptist.
I am more interested in Scripture than I am a man virtually no one has ever heard of. He’s dead now, and will stand before God’s judgment seat, same as we will. God will judge him according to truth.
I appreciate his efforts to further the Gospel of Christ, but I didn’t get my Baptist beliefs from him. I got my beliefs from reading the Bible for myself, before I ever went to a Baptist Church. When I did go to one, I found out they believed what I already believed from reading Scripture, and that’s why I’m a Baptist.
I agree with both premise and conclusion of this article. Williams was minimally a Baptist in some areas, baptistic in others like many Separatists of his day.
BTW, I've often quipped that my great grandfather was William Rogers, not to be confused with Roger Williams. He was a circuit-riding Methodist preacher in Iowa.
Was Roger Williams A Baptist? - by M. R. Ellis, 1928 (baptisthistoryhomepage.com)
BTW, I've often quipped that my great grandfather was William Rogers, not to be confused with Roger Williams. He was a circuit-riding Methodist preacher in Iowa.
Was Roger Williams A Baptist? - by M. R. Ellis, 1928 (baptisthistoryhomepage.com)
unprofitable
Active Member
For someone to leave the Baptist and become, as I have read, a seeker indicated he was a false brother and/or a false pastor. He did not obviously believe what he said he was standing for or he would not have left to begin with.
unprofitable
Active Member
Not only was Smyth's baptism not valid in that he did it by pouring but also in that he performed it on himself, an act not found in scripture
37818
Well-Known Member
And he and his followers are commonly counted as the first post reformation.Baptists by name for teaching believers baptism.
unprofitable
Active Member
You appear to read a lot about Baptist history which many of our brethren are unaware. It was my understanding that Williams left the Baptist ranks. The article I read many years ago denied that the assembly that Williams started was Baptist in nature. There are other articles that may be to the contrary.
Just because someone teaches believer's baptism does not qualify them as a Baptist.
The Baptist of old also have held that baptism must be by a proper authority on a proper or qualified convert in a proper manner
I find it hard to believe that a true Baptist will leave the ranks and seek Christ or God through some other.means if that is what is implied by being a seeker.
37818
Well-Known Member
Now I am not following your argument. There different issues. They need to be keep separate.