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Was the 1906 Azusa Revival from God or Satan?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
CHARISMANEWS:
Why the Azusa Street Revival Ended
"....One of the biggest setbacks of the Azusa Street Revival came with the sudden loss of their extensive mailing list in 1909. After some disagreement, Florence Crawford, the strong-willed secretary of the Apostolic Faith Mission abruptly left town with the extensive roster of subscribers. Without this, the mission's newspaper could no longer be circulated...."
"....There was something else that may have contributed to the breakdown of the revival. Some of the leaders who attended the services were convinced that they could do a much better job of perpetuating the revival than William Seymour and his team. By the second and third year of the revival, several competing missions popped up around Los Angeles; attempting to take the attention away from the Apostolic Faith Mission...."
Compare with:
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will be overthrown:
39 but if it is of God, ye will not be able to overthrow them; lest haply ye be found even to be fighting against God. Acts 5
Satan still up to his bag of tricks!
I was thinking more of a modern day tower of Babel, as in babbling tongues!
Would say that if you read what Charasmatic Chaos has spawned from there, was really bad news!
Word of fait heresy, latter day rain heresy, health and wealth heresy, modern prophets and apostles heresy, and division in the Body, as many saw thje Charasmatic way as movement of God!
There was a book published a few years ago called Charismatic Cofusion. This was a reprint with added notes of a book published in 1834 which was entitled Modern Claims to the Extraordinary Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The title was much longer tthan that but it will suffice, By Rev Wm Goode. Asuza Street was not new.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
Of Satan. Pentecostals try to gain credibility by pointing out the multi-racial nature of Azusa. But, credibility is gained by being biblical. I guess it depends on who you want credibility with; God, or Satan's world.
So there were fake happenings before Azusa then?
Absolutely.
The modern claims that Rev Goode is writing about was the Irvingites. Edward Irving was the pasor of the Scotch Church in London. In the late 1820s tongues and prophecy came into his church. In the early 1830s he was excommunicated for heresy, Not for the tongues heresy but on his teaching on the humanity of Christ. He died shortly after. His church continued and later was known as The Catholic Apostolic Church. Apart from tongues and prohecy, each of their churches had an angel, apostles and prophets. They continued into the 20th century and my dad told me that one of his sisters went to one of their meetings in London in the 1920s. One of their main churches in London was the University Church of Christ the King. near the London University, I believe they later joined with the Anglicans.
The best chapter is The Best Writers Respecting Such Gifts, it gives comments by various writers throughout history.
The next chapter is entitled The Case of the Montanists w1ho in works preserved by Eusebius says that in the year 172 Montanus claimed to have received the prohetic gift, Tetullin later joined this sect.
Chapterr IV Various Cases Since the Montanists. " The example of the Montanists has been followed by many others who have sprung up in various times in the Christian Church."
Chapter V
General Observations On The Whole Subject.
Appendix.
Items added since the first edition was published. Mainly quotations from a book entitled Narative of Facts, by Robert Baxter, one of the prophets in In Irving's Church , who left and accused himself of error in his book.
The modern claims that Rev Goode is writing about was the Irvingites. Edward Irving was the pasor of the Scotch Church in London. In the late 1820s tongues and prophecy came into his church. In the early 1830s he was excommunicated for heresy, Not for the tongues heresy but on his teaching on the humanity of Christ. He died shortly after. His church continued and later was known as The Catholic Apostolic Church. Apart from tongues and prohecy, each of their churches had an angel, apostles and prophets. They continued into the 20th century and my dad told me that one of his sisters went to one of their meetings in London in the 1920s. One of their main churches in London was the University Church of Christ the King. near the London University, I believe they later joined with the Anglicans.
The best chapter is The Best Writers Respecting Such Gifts, it gives comments by various writers throughout history.
The next chapter is entitled The Case of the Montanists w1ho in works preserved by Eusebius says that in the year 172 Montanus claimed to have received the prohetic gift, Tetullin later joined this sect.
Chapterr IV Various Cases Since the Montanists. " The example of the Montanists has been followed by many others who have sprung up in various times in the Christian Church."
Chapter V
General Observations On The Whole Subject.
Appendix.
Items added since the first edition was published. Mainly quotations from a book entitled Narative of Facts, by Robert Baxter, one of the prophets in In Irving's Church , who left and accused himself of error in his book.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
There has always been people practicing tongues. People of all religions, especially in certain ancient pagan religions.
Rev. Goode's book doesn't show any awareness of anything like the 20th-century charismatic movement, but only fringe nonsense. He's aware mostly of charismatic false prophets (usually female) and a little bit of charismatic practice in congregations, such as the Shakers.
The modern claimants arfe also fringe nonesense but perhaps beyond the fringe.
There is no difference or very little between the historic charismatics and the modern ones. One Baptist pastor said he was in the pentecostal movement for fifteen years and attended many healing services but never saw anyone healed, in spite of teir claims of healing. A disabled man who has applied for membership of our church was born disabled, as a child his parents took him from one pentecostal church to another who claimed they could heal him. of course they couldn't.
There is no difference or very little between the historic charismatics and the modern ones. One Baptist pastor said he was in the pentecostal movement for fifteen years and attended many healing services but never saw anyone healed, in spite of teir claims of healing. A disabled man who has applied for membership of our church was born disabled, as a child his parents took him from one pentecostal church to another who claimed they could heal him. of course they couldn't.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
Pentecostalism is now mainstream and buttressed by a web of doctrines. That's far different from pre-20th century when some women claimed to receive prophesy from God or a handful of Quakers standing around waiting to be moved by God, all far from mainstream. The Assemblies of God is in the top ten largest denominations. Non-denominational Pentecostal churches together would probably also be in the top ten. Pentecostalism is also widely practiced outside of Pentecostal churches. The Southern Baptist Convention has dropped their prohibition against their missionaries practicing tongues. The heresies, such as Dispensationalism, promoted by Pentecostal Churches now heavily influences non-Pentecostal churches. And, Pentecostalism is a rapidly growing percentage of the members of the [post-] Protestant church.
To the original poster,
I believe you have left out an important thing to judge Asuza Street by, and that is their doctrine at the time. We can just read the wikipedia articles on the so called revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival) to understand that they stood for two things that clearly violate the bible: women as pastors and disorderly conduct in church (1 Corinthians 26-40).
Now, I may shock a lot of people here by saying this, but I am training to be a prophetic minister as a southern baptist member who was baptized as an adult, but I know to stay away from anything that touches Asuza Street as it appears to be a counterfeit revival.
That said, Asuza Street's fruit over the years (Matthew 7:15-20) appears at first glance to be good in that it has spread to the far corners of the earth bringing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, from my own experience inside the International House of Prayer movement for a few years, I can tell you that it really is charismatic chaos inside Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity. Inside it you learn to value the bible less than in the SBC, you learn to get wrapped up with a cult-like culture of the end-times, and you place prime importance on displays of spiritual power instead of where such "signs" should be leading us in our relationship with God.
I can tell you there really is supernatural stuff going on, as its easy to confirm by going to a supernaturally gifted charismatic church for a year. However, I was always told something very unbiblical in the House of Prayers: "Follow the power inside the church to know where God is and is working." Something which really means that those with supernatural power are God's special messengers and workers. Simply put, the bible does not tell us to go looking for power or signs and wonders to find those with vested spiritual authority in the New Testament. Instead the bible warns us that such people may be on their way to hell as imposter Christians (Matthew 7:21-23).
Thank you.
I believe you have left out an important thing to judge Asuza Street by, and that is their doctrine at the time. We can just read the wikipedia articles on the so called revival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival) to understand that they stood for two things that clearly violate the bible: women as pastors and disorderly conduct in church (1 Corinthians 26-40).
Now, I may shock a lot of people here by saying this, but I am training to be a prophetic minister as a southern baptist member who was baptized as an adult, but I know to stay away from anything that touches Asuza Street as it appears to be a counterfeit revival.
That said, Asuza Street's fruit over the years (Matthew 7:15-20) appears at first glance to be good in that it has spread to the far corners of the earth bringing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, from my own experience inside the International House of Prayer movement for a few years, I can tell you that it really is charismatic chaos inside Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity. Inside it you learn to value the bible less than in the SBC, you learn to get wrapped up with a cult-like culture of the end-times, and you place prime importance on displays of spiritual power instead of where such "signs" should be leading us in our relationship with God.
I can tell you there really is supernatural stuff going on, as its easy to confirm by going to a supernaturally gifted charismatic church for a year. However, I was always told something very unbiblical in the House of Prayers: "Follow the power inside the church to know where God is and is working." Something which really means that those with supernatural power are God's special messengers and workers. Simply put, the bible does not tell us to go looking for power or signs and wonders to find those with vested spiritual authority in the New Testament. Instead the bible warns us that such people may be on their way to hell as imposter Christians (Matthew 7:21-23).
Thank you.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
Among those who claim to believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, no one believes the Bible less than Pentecostals. Their full embrace of women pastors is an example of that. Even the pastor's wives often get billing as Pastor.
As a kid, I don't remember that "cult-like culture of the end-times" (pretrib rapture, dispensationalism, and all that related heretical junk) in the Baptist church. That junk was the domain of the Pentecostal churches. But, now Baptist churches are infected by it, not so much the pastors (at least as far as obsessing over that junk), but every church seems to have a number of people who got their doctrines from Pentecostal quacks on TV.
I believe I have to post this after claiming to be a baptist prophetic minister recently on this thread.
After much reflection, bible study, and prayer I have decided to stop prophesying and see what the fruit of this is over time. I came to the conclusion I may not be a prophet and may in fact be deceived by the spirit of the antichrist mentioned in 1 John 4:2-3.
I made this decision after doing internet research in which I was especially taken aback by the verse Ephesians 2:20. I do not see how I could be laying the foundation of the church in the 21st century. I was also taken aback by bible commentaries on the New Testament prophets that showed that their role differed greatly to what I had in mind based on where the spirits leading me have been taking me. I was also alarmed at a point when I seemed to doubt the resurrection of Jesus, which I decided to just have faith in blindly. My "prophetic walk" lately seems to have introduced the idea I had increasing evidence for God's existence due to supernatural encounters with spirits, which I did not handle well.
After much reflection, bible study, and prayer I have decided to stop prophesying and see what the fruit of this is over time. I came to the conclusion I may not be a prophet and may in fact be deceived by the spirit of the antichrist mentioned in 1 John 4:2-3.
I made this decision after doing internet research in which I was especially taken aback by the verse Ephesians 2:20. I do not see how I could be laying the foundation of the church in the 21st century. I was also taken aback by bible commentaries on the New Testament prophets that showed that their role differed greatly to what I had in mind based on where the spirits leading me have been taking me. I was also alarmed at a point when I seemed to doubt the resurrection of Jesus, which I decided to just have faith in blindly. My "prophetic walk" lately seems to have introduced the idea I had increasing evidence for God's existence due to supernatural encounters with spirits, which I did not handle well.
Next time ask the spirits how much coin change I got in my jar.
I wanted to state to everyone that I have repented of believing I have Pentecostal or Charismatic gifts. I have also repented of being Pentecostal or Charismatic as my reading of the Word and experiences within that movement through the International House of Prayer and Faith Assembly led me to believe that it is both unbiblical and counterfeit. As soon as I repented of all of this, I felt completely different and more normal.
In addition, the spirit that has given me prophecy has left shortly after my pastor prayed for deliverance from Satan over my house and I. I was prayed over, and after my pastor left I went into my room to journal my repentance. When I was almost finished I had a fit of shrieking and convulsions and then the spirit of prophecy was gone. This leads me to believe that in going to the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement I opened myself up to the demonic just as if I went into the occult.
Now as mentioned in another post, I have a mental illness. It's very weird though as my mental health therapist has concluded that that my brain is such that it generates very smart voices that can converse with me, claim to be demons, know what words to say to wound me, act purposefully in conversation, claim to be the Holy Spirit giving me prophecy, and such. He believes the reason my voices may come out as if I am a medium channeling spirits is that I have a verbal tic disorder. Something I can't find in google searches or on google scholar searches. But my pastor believes there may be a spiritual dimension to what is going on as well as a physical one, and the fact the voice giving me false prophecy has gone away after an episode of shrieking and convulsions is amazing.
I still channel voices that try and converse with me, but the one I am currently channeling after the voice giving me prophecy went away claims to be a demon named Tammuz that is trying to tempt me into sin instead of giving me false prophecy. However, I know that with prayer and the name of Jesus whatever spiritual dimension to my malady there is will be defeated in time. I will be praying with my pastor more in the coming weeks and months to see what more can be done.
Our Father in Heaven Bless You and Your Loved Ones Abundantly in Jesus' Name,
Steve
In addition, the spirit that has given me prophecy has left shortly after my pastor prayed for deliverance from Satan over my house and I. I was prayed over, and after my pastor left I went into my room to journal my repentance. When I was almost finished I had a fit of shrieking and convulsions and then the spirit of prophecy was gone. This leads me to believe that in going to the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement I opened myself up to the demonic just as if I went into the occult.
Now as mentioned in another post, I have a mental illness. It's very weird though as my mental health therapist has concluded that that my brain is such that it generates very smart voices that can converse with me, claim to be demons, know what words to say to wound me, act purposefully in conversation, claim to be the Holy Spirit giving me prophecy, and such. He believes the reason my voices may come out as if I am a medium channeling spirits is that I have a verbal tic disorder. Something I can't find in google searches or on google scholar searches. But my pastor believes there may be a spiritual dimension to what is going on as well as a physical one, and the fact the voice giving me false prophecy has gone away after an episode of shrieking and convulsions is amazing.
I still channel voices that try and converse with me, but the one I am currently channeling after the voice giving me prophecy went away claims to be a demon named Tammuz that is trying to tempt me into sin instead of giving me false prophecy. However, I know that with prayer and the name of Jesus whatever spiritual dimension to my malady there is will be defeated in time. I will be praying with my pastor more in the coming weeks and months to see what more can be done.
Our Father in Heaven Bless You and Your Loved Ones Abundantly in Jesus' Name,
Steve