Was the American Revolution a Sin?

[JFox1]

Yesterday in Bible study class, the teacher read from Luther's Small Catechism regarding the Fourth Commandment, "Honor thy Father and Mother."

"What does this mean? We should fear and love God so that we do not despise or anger our parents AND OTHER AUTHORITIES, but honor them, serve and obey them, love and cherish them." Page 72.

The teacher then proceeded to say that the colonists were wrong for rebelling against the British in 1776 and that it is a sin to rebel against authority unless they interfere with the practice of religion. He said that taxation without representation was not a good enough reason to have a revolution.

What is wrong with this picture? I'm glad we're not a British colony.

 

[sag38]

The teacher, obviously, hasn't read the Declaration of Independence. It states multiple reasons for the rebellion. Taxation without representation is only one of them.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The teacher, obviously, hasn't read the Declaration of Independence. It states multiple reasons for the rebellion. Taxation without representation is only one of them.

But if God put the government in place, and many Christians say all governments were placed by God, then is it proper to revolt against one?

 

[Palatka51]

But if God put the government in place, and many Christians say all governments were placed by God, then is it proper to revolt against one?

Actual government was not in place for the Colonies. Hence taxation without representation! It was rule by extortion. It was the way King George III ruled and the British Parliament turned out more and more oppressing litigation against the American Colonies. When Ben Franklin went to Parliament he was snubbed. He went there to be the Colonies Representative and left without being able to achieve representation. If Great Britain had accepted him we would be still under British rule and bowing to the Queen.

 

[rbell]

But if God put the government in place, and many Christians say all governments were placed by God, then is it proper to revolt against one?

God also authorized war many times in Scripture...so it stands to reason that there can be an overapplication of either....

 

[Sopranette]

Wars are usually fought over resources. The British saw value in this new land, and wanted a piece of it. We said, "no". Besides many new American came to this country to escape persecution. What good would it have done if they came all this way, on a dangerous journey, only to still be under British rule?

love,

Sopranette

 

[Palatka51]

Wars are usually fought over resources. The British saw value in this new land, and wanted a piece of it. We said, "no". Besides many new American came to this country to escape persecution. What good would it have done if they came all this way, on a dangerous journey, only to still be under British rule?

love,

Sopranette

Good point!:thumbs:

British rule had the Church tax. If you were not Anglican by faith you as a Baptist would be bound to taxation. This is what prompted our forefathers to not install a state supported Church. It was not that there was to be a total seperation but that there was not to be a respected Church over the others.

 

[Crabtownboy]

God also authorized war many times in Scripture...so it stands to reason that there can be an overapplication of either....

How do you determine if it should be war or acceptance of the government. Also show me where Christ said war is all right.

 

[Palatka51]

How do you determine if it should be war or acceptance of the government. Also show me where Christ said war is all right.

If his kingdom were of this world then would his servants fight. Our warfare is therefore Spiritual. However there are times when servants must rise up against evil that has taken control of systems that seek to set themselves above God. Like that of Communism which sets the state up as god. Or a state that decides who is to live or die, ie Nazism. Or in our case the choice of who is to be born or not. All these have usurped God and all will be subject to His judgment. Hopefully our society will repent of it before it comes to blood shed as it did in the 1860's. :tear:
Further more Christ is God and He said it in the OT.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

I hope and pray that we are entering a time of peace, but until our national sin is dealt with I'm afraid that we will not have peace for some time.

raying: Lord God, Please open the eyes of those that are blinded by their pocket books and help them to hear the cries of the innocent. In Jesus' name I ask.raying:

 

[rbell]

How do you determine if it should be war or acceptance of the government. Also show me where Christ said war is all right.

Where did I say "Christ said war is all right?"
The OT is clear....

And Christ did say, "I came not to bring peace, but a sword."

Now...I'm not trying to make His statement a justification for war. I'm just saying that I don't see Christ saying anywhere there is never just cause.


Keep in mind...if there is never a just cause for war, you wouldn't be in Prague right now, posting on the BB. (WWII)

 

[sag38]

This is leading to and sounding like pacifism/appeasement 101. And, we will soon hear the quote, "Jesus never bombed anyone."

 

[just-want-peace]

This is leading to and sounding like pacifism/appeasement 101. And, we will soon hear the quote, "Jesus never bombed anyone."

And following this, that God is LOVE; totally forgetting (or purposefully ignoring) that He is also a God of wrath!!

 

[Analgesic]

Actual government was not in place for the Colonies. Hence taxation without representation! It was rule by extortion. It was the way King George III ruled and the British Parliament turned out more and more oppressing litigation against the American Colonies. When Ben Franklin went to Parliament he was snubbed. He went there to be the Colonies Representative and left without being able to achieve representation. If Great Britain had accepted him we would be still under British rule and bowing to the Queen.

"Government" != "representative government". A monarchy is still very much a government. An oppressive government is still a government. Snubbing representatives doesn't dissolve a government.

Wars are usually fought over resources. The British saw value in this new land, and wanted a piece of it. We said, "no". Besides many new American came to this country to escape persecution. What good would it have done if they came all this way, on a dangerous journey, only to still be under British rule?

love,

Sopranette

The colonies already were under British rule. "We" were British subjects.

Taxation != persecution. And even if it did, where in Scripture is revolution advocated when Christians suffer persecution?

God also authorized war many times in Scripture...so it stands to reason that there can be an overapplication of either....

God certainly authorized war, but when did he ever authorize revolution? The only case which springs to mind is when David was commissioned to take up the throne in place of Saul, but his conduct there wasn't even close to being revolutionary.

 

[carpro]

Yesterday in Bible study class, the teacher read from Luther's Small Catechism regarding the Fourth Commandment, "Honor thy Father and Mother."

"What does this mean? We should fear and love God so that we do not despise or anger our parents AND OTHER AUTHORITIES, but honor them, serve and obey them, love and cherish them." Page 72.

The teacher then proceeded to say that the colonists were wrong for rebelling against the British in 1776 and that it is a sin to rebel against authority unless they interfere with the practice of religion. He said that taxation without representation was not a good enough reason to have a revolution.

What is wrong with this picture? I'm glad we're not a British colony.

Your "teacher" is an idiot, at least concerning this opinion.

If this is an example of his interpretations of scripture, I'd lend a careful ear to all his other applications of scripture to everyday life.

 

[Palatka51]

"Government" != "representative government". A monarchy is still very much a government. An oppressive government is still a government. Snubbing representatives doesn't dissolve a government.

That's just it George the 3rd was not being king. The only thing they did was to extort all they could to enrich themselves. Then when the French stirred the Indians the Colonist had to pay for a British conflict by heavy taxation.

The colonies already were under British rule. "We" were British subjects.

There is no "we" in subjects nor "I" for that matter. We were King George's Whipping boys until God moved to secure our freedom by the blood of our forefathers. Every Governing body ever formed has been by shed blood and personal sacrifice.

So if this was not God's will for US then why did we win? Don't you think that God would have made it favorable for King George if he was to secure rule over US?

BTW, Great Briton had a second chance to subjugate US in 1812 and God stood up for US then.

Besides if you want to leave and go subject yourself to British rule then you go right ahead. BTW, subjugate should suit "U" fine because subjugation can't work unless "U" are part of it. That is just what the Tories did after the revolution was won.

Meanwhile I'll live free as an American who trusts no king but the King of kings, the Son of the Living God. Who bled and gave Himself a sacrifice for my sins. Only to Him will I bow.

Now please go and bow to your queen.

 

[Salty]

Declaration of Independence

Taxation without representation is way down on the list.

Salty


PS How about Representation without taxation?

 

[Analgesic]

That's just it George the 3rd was not being king. The only thing they did was to extort all they could to enrich themselves. Then when the French stirred the Indians the Colonist had to pay for a British conflict by heavy taxation.

George III was being King. A bad King is still a King.

There is no "we" in subjects nor "I" for that matter. We were King George's Whipping boys until God moved to secure our freedom by the blood of our forefathers. Every Governing body ever formed has been by shed blood and personal sacrifice.

Being under British rule made the colonists subjects of the Crown. Whether they were justly treated or not has absolutely no bearing on the matter.

So if this was not God's will for US then why did we win? Don't you think that God would have made it favorable for King George if he was to secure rule over US?

Seriously?? Every time you win it's a sign of God's approval? What if you cheated, breaking His laws in order to achieve victory?

BTW, Great Briton had a second chance to subjugate US in 1812 and God stood up for US then.

Riiiight, 1812. When America invaded the Canadian colonies. Sure, that was absolutely an attempt by Britain to subjugate the United States.

Besides if you want to leave and go subject yourself to British rule then you go right ahead. BTW, subjugate should suit "U" fine because subjugation can't work unless "U" are part of it. That is just what the Tories did after the revolution was won.

Meanwhile I'll live free as an American who trusts no king but the King of kings, the Son of the Living God. Who bled and gave Himself a sacrifice for my sins. Only to Him will I bow.

Now please go and bow to your queen.

When did I ever express a preference for British rule or a lack of trust in the King of Kings? You stated, as a historical point, that "actual government" was not in place for the colonies because the Crown was extorting them. I replied that you were confusing government with good government and that government still very much exists even when it is bad. Your solution is to tell me to leave and subject myself to the Queen while you live free as a good Christian American. I salute you for such a brilliant display of historical, political, and Biblical logic.

 

[poncho]

Paul, the author of Romans 13 was rebelling against the civil authorities (Caesar) even as he wrote Romans 13.

 

[JFox1]

Declaration of Independence

Taxation without representation is way down on the list.

Salty


PS How about Representation without taxation?

Thank you for the link to the Declaration of Independence. I'm going to show it to the teacher. He really needs to brush up on his American history. :thumbs: :godisgood:

 

[Salty]

Thank you for the link to the Declaration of Independence. I'm going to show it to the teacher. He really needs to brush up on his American history. :thumbs: :godisgood:

And while you are at it, ask your teacher what he thinks about Representation without taxation.