Was the Kingdom of Heaven Really at Hand When Jesus Came

[kyredneck]

Can one have a kingdom without a king?

Just because neither can be seen with the eye doesn't mean they're not there:

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, Lo, there! Lo, here! go not away, nor follow after [them]:
24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day. Lu 17

 

[Van]

What do you think about this exchange?

MT 21:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Interesting sideline - in V23 it is the kingdom of heaven and in V24 it is the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Well, obviously the king is not sitting in his throne even now and therefore the 12 apostles are not sitting presently upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Their bodies are still in the graves awaiting resurrection and glorification.

1) Yes, I agree, the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God refer to the same place or spiritual state.

2) I believe Christ is right now sitting at the right hand of God on God's throne. And I believe every born anew believer, having followed Christ at least in spiritual regeneration, having been spiritually born anew, is in some manner also in the heavenly place, Ephesians 2:6.

3) As far as I can discern from scripture, although I have not studied this issue, no one but Christ has been bodily resurrected (except a few briefly), but everyone who was born anew and has physically died is spiritually in heaven right now.

 

[JD731]

Just because neither can be seen with the eye doesn't mean they're not there:

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, Lo, there! Lo, here! go not away, nor follow after [them]:
24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day. Lu 17

So, logically and obviously if Jesus began to preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand in Mt 4:17 after John the Baptist was murdered, he who had already been preaching the kingdom of heaven is at hand and was jailed for it, then the kingdom of heaven was not present during those days. You have given me some red ink that doesn't seem to answer any of the questions asked but just raises some new ones. The kingdom of heaven was not there when Jesus was preaching and sending out his kingdom officers to preach to none but Israel that they must believe the gospel of the kingdom or face a worse fate than Sodom. Then later, in Mt 16, he told these same men not to tell anyone that he was the Christ. You must ask the text for an explanation because God is not on crack Cocaine that causes him to babble. Something took place to alter the message between Mt 10 and Mt 16 that changed the message. The kingdom was no longer at hand in MT 16. Then in Matthew 19 he said to these same apostles when they inquired what their reward would be for sticking with him he insinuated that the kingdom over Israel would yet come to pass in the time period he called "the regeneration" they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. He made this statement during the time he was travelling to Jerusalem where he would be crucified. These 12 are still dead and are ruling over nothing. This means the regeneration will be after the resurrection of these men and a kingdom will be in place at that time with Jesus being King. You may explain why that is illogic.

I do not like the answer you provided because it was a non answer, kyrn. These passages deserve a better answer than yours. There is no way to answer them except a strong belief that the Bible is the word of God. If you ask these other men you are going to get a multitude of opinions but no solid answers. Picking out a commentary set will not get the job done because the next commentary set will say something else. Throw them away and ask God and be ready to accept his answer.

But thank you for responding. I hope you will give a body of reasoning from the Bible in your next response.

 

[JD731]

1) Yes, I agree, the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God refer to the same place or spiritual state.

2) I believe Christ is right now sitting at the right hand of God on God's throne. And I believe every born anew believer, having followed Christ at least in spiritual regeneration, having been spiritually born anew, is in some manner also in the heavenly place, Ephesians 2:6.

3) As far as I can discern from scripture, although I have not studied this issue, no one but Christ has been bodily resurrected (except a few briefly), but everyone who was born anew and has physically died is spiritually in heaven right now.

There is another reason to consider concerning the Kingdom of God that was at hand when Jesus came and when he was having a conversation with Nicodemus in John 3 about entering the kingdom. Jesus said this about the kingdom to him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Now this word "see" in the verse above is in "perceive" and this should be troubling to students of the Bible who cannot be taught about the kingdom.
Again Jesus says this:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now this verse says something that probably no one here will understand or agree with but it is what it says. The new birth is required before one enters into the kingdom that Jesus Christ is preaching here. It is the kingdom that is "at hand" and it is in the context of Israel only. This conversation is in the very early part of the ministry of Jesus Christ. Now we can quote this verse in our theology and apply it spiritually and that is proper, but when Jesus spoke these words the context was a physical kingdom that was then at hand. Being born again was impossible during the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ because his ministry was in the flesh as one of these people. He would have to die for their sins and be resurrected from the dead and live in them for the new birth to occur. In order for this to happen they would need to believe that he was indeed the promised Messiah and the son of God, that he was the God man and they must receive him as such as a people and a nation. The national rulers, of whom Nicodemus was a member, would be those who had the hearts of the people and who would be tasked to believe in him and lead the nation to believe in him.

Every one in the book of John who believed was said to believe that Jesus was the son of God. No one in the book of John believed that Jesus would die and be resurrected from the dead, even his 12 apostles and 70 elders he chose later, even after he rose from the dead. They were not tasked to believe that about Jesus to be justified. This is easily provable if you would like to challenge these facts. I will take time to highlight all the conversions in John later as the conversation dictates.

Here is what John gives for the reason he wrote the gospel of John;

Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jesus said in John 6 these words;
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Nothing about his death, burial, and resurrection and this generation is the only generation who saw him.

I will stop right here but there is much more to this story of the kingdom of heaven.

 

[percho]

Thanks percho, I take that answer as a, no. I do have the answer to your question. It is "timing."

"Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us (Hebrews) by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (aions = ages)
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world (kosmos): but now once in the end of the world (aion = age) hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

BUT, the end of one thing can also be the beginning of another;

Mr 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; (at his baptism) 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
This is when he first appeared to his people in the capacity of Messiah.

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God bless your understanding in these things.

Was Jesus [Emmanuel] literally the seed of the woman? The Word made flesh who dwelt among them?

And using some scriptures from above:

Is the kingdom of God something that a man must inherit? Did the Son of God call himself the Son of Man?

Is an heir one who is to inherit?

When did Son inherit the kingdom of God?


The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deut 18:15
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. John 3:34

 

[Van]

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Now this word "see" in the verse above is in "perceive" and this should be troubling to students of the Bible who cannot be taught about the kingdom.
Again Jesus says this:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now this verse says something that probably no one here will understand or agree with but it is what it says. The new birth is required before one enters into the kingdom that Jesus Christ is preaching here. It is the kingdom that is "at hand" and it is in the context of Israel only.

1) "See" translates "horao" G3708, which some scholars believe has the meaning of perceive, be aware of, as used in John 3:3. Other commentators see it differently.

2) "To “see” the kingdom is, in New Testament usage, equivalent to “enter into the kingdom,” John 3:5, where indeed some MSS. read “see.” (Comp. in this John John 3:36, and Luke 2:26; Acts 2:27; Hebrews 11:5; 1Peter 3:10; Revelation 18:7.)" Ellicott's Commentary.

3) Thus a well accepted view, which I agree with, is that a lost person can be aware of God and His kingdom, but not "see" it from the inside, thus cannot enter or experience it, unless he or she has been spiritually born anew.

4) I expect many here will agree that John 3:5 says a person must be physically born (a child of wrath) and then spiritually born anew (becoming a child of God) before he or she can enter the kingdom of God.

5) I have already presented overwhelming evidence that the kingdom of God was at hand for all people, Jews and Gentiles alike. For example, Acts of the Apostles 8:12

 

[JD731]

#1 Was Jesus [Emmanuel] literally the seed of the woman? The Word made flesh who dwelt among them?

And using some scriptures from above:

#2 Is the kingdom of God something that a man must inherit? #3 Did the Son of God call himself the Son of Man?

#4 Is an heir one who is to inherit?

#5 When did Son inherit the kingdom of God?


The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deut 18:15
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. John 3:34

#1 - Yes
#2 - The kingdom is God's and Jesus is his firstborn from the dead, Making him the rightful heir in the economy of God, Col 1:18, all those in Christ (his body, the church) are made joint heirs with Christ. The kingdom as it relates to earth when it is established is under the son of David, who is Jesus Christ and he will rule over Israel and by extension all the nations of the earth in perfect righteousness.
#3 - Yes
#4 - Yes
#5 - The following prophecy was stated in 30 AD as recorded by Luke in Acts about the ascension of our Lord and it is still future, meaning it has not taken place in our time. -
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

God has not yet made the enemies of Christ his footstool. (There is still a democrat party)

You sort of ignored my comments to you. Did anything I said make any sense to you?

 

[CJP69]

Did Jesus choose his officers of his kingdom after the model of Moses in the wilderness, twelve heads of Israel and 70 appointed elders?

Mt 4:17 From that time (the time he began to dwell in Capernaum of Galilee) Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The answer to the question should be a yes or a no.

My answer is yes. A solid yes.

I agree! A solid yes!

Jesus even gives the approximate time line with the parable of the barren fig tree...

Luke 13:6 He also spoke this parable: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’ 8 But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.’ ”​

Israel's prophesied program was on track, Jesus was crucified on Passover, He was in the grave during the Feast of Unleavened Bread, He rose from the dead on the Feast of First Fruits, and then God gave His Spirit to the Twelve on the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost).

Had Israel repented, as is foreshadowed by the next feast on the schedule, the Feast of Trumpets, then Jesus would have returned, possibly on the Day of Atonement which the Feast of Trumpets is a preparation for. The timing of all of this would have been spread out over Daniel's 70th "week" (seven years).

Israel did not repent and thus, God cut off Israel (see Jeremiah 18 & Romans 9) and turned instead to the Gentiles beginning the Dispensation of Grace, starting with the conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus in Acts 9.

 

[JD731]

To all the commentators who are interested in the op;

The portions of the gospel accounts that deal with the last 8 days of Jesus ministry which included his resurrection from the dead numbers 29 chapters. This is almost exactly one third of the 89 chapters of the four gospel writers. This final week was a substantial amount of time after the rejection of the nation through the rulers of the kingdom by their rejecting the King in Mt 12 and denying his claim of deity as the son of God. Jesus pronounced a terrible curse on this generation of Jews whose task it was to recognize him and his works that were clearly explained in the OT prophets.

Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world (Aion = age), neither in the world to come.
This gives clarity to the next age, this one we live in now, the mystery form of the kingdom of heaven, when this conversation took place between Jesus and his disciples.;
Read it here;

Mat 13:1 ¶ The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

This took place towards the end of the ministry of Jesus on the earth. Look at the surprised disciples question when they heard this parable.

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

C'mon now dear reader. This would not have been a question that would have been asked if it was an established practice. This is in the context of a new growing season, which is a new age. In Mt 12 Jesus was speaking of a harvest without enough reapers. He was preaching the gospel of the kingdom until then. Now he is predicting the next age will be one when both the king and the nation will be absent and new things happening. Seven parables, the number God uses for complete things describes this mystery kingdom. This is our time. The church is a gentile church. The kingdom is off the table for Israel at this time.

This parable during the last week of Jesus will add definition.

Mt 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Do you remember Mt 10 when he sent the apostle out.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

Remember the 70 in Luke 10.?
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

Remember Stephen in Acts 7?
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Remember Titus the Roman general in 70 AD at the end of the 40 year probation?

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Remember the gentiles around the world?

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Remember 2 Cor 11 and the transformed angel of light and ministers of darkness.

 

[JD731]

I agree! A solid yes!

Jesus even gives the approximate time line with the parable of the barren fig tree...

Luke 13:6 He also spoke this parable: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’ 8 But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.’ ”​

Israel's prophesied program was on track, Jesus was crucified on Passover, He was in the grave during the Feast of Unleavened Bread, He rose from the dead on the Feast of First Fruits, and then God gave His Spirit to the Twelve on the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost).

Had Israel repented, as is foreshadowed by the next feast on the schedule, the Feast of Trumpets, then Jesus would have returned, possibly on the Day of Atonement which the Feast of Trumpets is a preparation for. The timing of all of this would have been spread out over Daniel's 70th "week" (seven years).

Israel did not repent and thus, God cut off Israel (see Jeremiah 18 & Romans 9) and turned instead to the Gentiles beginning the Dispensation of Grace, starting with the conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus in Acts 9.

Thank you CP69. It is refreshing to see someone who gets it. Praise the Lord for you.

 

[JD731]

<<<B U M P>>> for KYRedneck. You are needed here!

 

[JD731]

To the readers of the thread:

What if Jesus and his apostles and disciples were busy preaching the gospel, the good news and glad tidings that Messiah had come to set up his messianic kingdom and it was "at hand" and only required the repentance of the nation of Israel for it to be soon realized? And suppose his disciples and followers knew nothing about his coming to die and be raised from the dead before the nation could be born again and to enter this kingdom? What if his first coming was strictly Jewish in it's application of the ministry of Jesus on the earth?

How would learning that impact your theological understanding of your own salvation and would it change how you read the scriptures?

 

[Van]

Did Jesus come to inaugurate His earthly kingdom? Nope, that happens when He returns.
When will Jesus reign from David's throne? When He returns.
"All Israel" will be comprised of all born anew believers, both believing blood line Jews and believing non-blood line Jews (Gentiles).
Learnings that impact our understanding of how people are being saved are discerned from reading and studying scripture with an open mind, not blinded by presuppositions.
The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.

 

[CJP69]

Did Jesus come to inaugurate His earthly kingdom? Nope, that happens when He returns.
When will Jesus reign from David's throne? When He returns.
"All Israel" will be comprised of all born anew believers, both believing blood line Jews and believing non-blood line Jews (Gentiles).
Learnings that impact our understanding of how people are being saved are discerned from reading and studying scripture with an open mind, not blinded by presuppositions.
The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.

The point is that Christ intended to return quite quickly and the Apostle's were both told and believed that this would be the case.

Matthew 16:28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 9:1 And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”

Acts 3: 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.​

Later in that same passage Peter says "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days." Samuel? Why does he mention Samuel? What are Abraham or Moses, chopped liver? It's because Samuel was the priest who anointed the David line of kings and because Samuel is associated with repentance of the nation of Israel and obedience toward God, which is also a major theme of the Feast of Trumpets, the next feast on the schedule to be fulfilled.

 

[JD731]

[QUOTE="Van, post: 2893747, member: 10696"
1) Did Jesus come to inaugurate His earthly kingdom? Nope, that happens when He returns.
2) When will Jesus reign from David's throne? When He returns.
3) "All Israel" will be comprised of all born anew believers, both believing blood line Jews and believing non-blood line Jews (Gentiles).
4) Learnings that impact our understanding of how people are being saved are discerned from reading and studying scripture with an open mind, not blinded by presuppositions.
5) The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
6) The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.[/QUOTE]

The kingdom doctrine is one of the most important doctrines in all of scripture because to give the rule of the earth to men was the purpose of the creation from the very beginning.

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Ge 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

AV-rule 13, dominion 9, take 2, prevaileth 1, reign 1, ruler 1; 27

1) to rule, have dominion, dominate, tread down
1a) (Qal) to have dominion, rule, subjugate
1b) (Hiphil) to cause to dominate

For men to rule over the earth is not a late blooming concept with God the Father. He thought of it from the very beginning.

Ps 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

There is no passage in the scriptures that I have seen that indicates God has changed his mind about this. The problem is that the serpent usurped the exalted position of man by his subtlety and lies and God through his wisdom in a fallen world has been through the centuries working to restore the model he created and renew it to it's pristine state. The dominion remains through a perfect man, the man Christ Jesus., who, like Adam is provided a helpmeet to rule and reign with him over all the earth. God gave Adam a bride taken from his side and she became his wife. There is nothing new under the sun and this is the pattern for what we see going on now. Both blood, the life of man and the water, a symbol of the Spirit of God, came out of the side of Jesus Christ and just as Adam was put to sleep (meaning death) and God the Father fashioned the woman from him, so is it with the Lord Jesus. God is fashioning his bride in these two days since he raised him from the dead and the fact that she has not been presented to him yet indicates that God is not finished yet. She will be presented to him very early on the third one thousand year day as God counts days. This is call in scripture, the day of the LORD. This is the day the Lord will take back his kingdom from the usurper and rule on the earth in righteousness under the authority of the God of heaven. You men will not have long to wait now to see that this is indeed the case. there is at least a chance that Jesus Christ will come for his bride at the feast of trumpets this year. It is to be observed on the first day of Israel's seventh month, which is our 10th month, October. When Jesus comes back to establish his rule his bride will be with him and will be his arm to rule. They will return to a much different earth than they left. There will be few men left alive on the earth because the judgement of God in his indignation and fury that has been reserved until this time will rid the earth of every single rebel and the earth will not follow the same orbit and the mountains will have melted into the seas. The night in the millennial kingdom of Christ will be as bright as the day and the day will be 7 times brighter than what we know now.

It is no wonder that modern religions around the globe will not believe the doctrine of the kingdom of God on earth and a large and diverse segment of denominational Christianity have likewise developed entire systematic religions that deny what God has repeatedly taught us throughout his word about the eternal kingdom of God on earth.

Just to show who it is who is in charge of the nations and politics now, read this;

Mt 4:1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world (how many of them?), and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

The Jewish nation, corrupt itself, is going to be the focus of Satan's attempt to completely eliminate them during his own last days on earth. It is his ONLY path to a victory over God since all the redemptive promises depend upon them as a distinct people. The everlasting covenants of God were made with this people exclusively. This is the reason for the hatred of Israel that Satan stirs in the minds of those who will aid him in his quest to rid the world of the Jew. The return of Jesus Christ will be in just the nick of time to deliver the remnant, small as it is, and through which he will establish his earthly and physical kingdom. This kingdom will be inaugurated a few days after his return at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Jesus Christ is marrying a gentile bride.

These are exciting times we are living in.

 

[percho]

IMHO No. 1 key to kingdom is resurrection out of the dead, being made alive out of the dead incorruptible and the following must be kept in mind.

for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign [kingdom] to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign [kingdom] of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;

Another thing I believe to be relative yet not sure why I believe so is; the tree of life, why do we see it in Rev 22.

 

[JD731]

IMHO No. 1 key to kingdom is resurrection out of the dead, being made alive out of the dead incorruptible and the following must be kept in mind.

for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign [kingdom] to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign [kingdom] of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;

Another thing I believe to be relative yet not sure why I believe so is; the tree of life, why do we see it in Rev 22.

Percho, nothing against you personally and I am glad to be exchanging ideas with you but sometimes I read things that are so overwhelmingly wrong that when I read it causes my jaw to drop and I almost fall out off my chair. Your quote is one of those times. What do you mean that all authority and rule and power has been made "useless?" Not some, but all?

The context of 1 Cor 15:24 is the eternal state when all the earth will be subdued and subjected to the heavenly rule of the Father in heaven including that earthly kingdom of the second man, the last Adam, Jesus Christ. It does not mean there will be no authority or power or rule by anyone or that such rule power and authority beame useless at some point. People who write things like this should be highly suspect as working for the enemy.

 

[Van]

The point is that Christ intended to return quite quickly and the Apostle's were both told and believed that this would be the case.

Matthew 16:28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 9:1 And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”

Acts 3: 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.​

Later in that same passage Peter says "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days." Samuel? Why does he mention Samuel? What are Abraham or Moses, chopped liver? It's because Samuel was the priest who anointed the David line of kings and because Samuel is associated with repentance of the nation of Israel and obedience toward God, which is also a major theme of the Feast of Trumpets, the next feast on the schedule to be fulfilled.

1) The difficulty of Matthew 16:28 is untangled by assuming the reference is to the transformation.

2) We are to live as if we expect the imminent return of Christ, no matter how long it may take.

3) Acts 3:18 refers to a time of restoration, not indicating it would quickly arrive.

The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.

 

[Van]

[QUOTE="Van, post: 2893747, member: 10696"
1) Did Jesus come to inaugurate His earthly kingdom? Nope, that happens when He returns.
2) When will Jesus reign from David's throne? When He returns.
3) "All Israel" will be comprised of all born anew believers, both believing blood line Jews and believing non-blood line Jews (Gentiles).
4) Learnings that impact our understanding of how people are being saved are discerned from reading and studying scripture with an open mind, not blinded by presuppositions.
5) The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
6) The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.

The kingdom doctrine is one of the most important doctrines in all of scripture because to give the rule of the earth to men was the purpose of the creation from the very beginning.
SNIP
These are exciting times we are living in.

I expect glorified humans will have a degree of autonomy as they rule under our sovereign God in the New Earth.

 

[CJP69]

1) The difficulty of Matthew 16:28 is untangled by assuming the reference is to the transformation.

The only people who have a difficulty to untangle are those who assume Jesus didn't mean what He said.

2) We are to live as if we expect the imminent return of Christ, no matter how long it may take.

True but it doesn't seem relevant to the discussion.

3) Acts 3:18 refers to a time of restoration, not indicating it would quickly arrive.

Acts 3:18 says what it says, which was Peter basically telling Israel that if they repent, God will send Jesus back. That's what anyone gets by simply reading the text. To get anything else requires bringing a contrary doctrine with you.

The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.

Again, both true and irrelevant/unresponsive to the discussion.

By the way, why do you change the font size in a seemingly random manner? This post looks like crap because of the weird things you did with the font sizes and because I'm tired of having to go in behind you and fix it.