Was the Kingdom of Heaven Really at Hand When Jesus Came

[Van]

[1]The only people who have a difficulty to untangle are those who assume Jesus didn't mean what He said.

[2]True but it doesn't seem relevant to the discussion.

[3]Acts 3:18 says what it says, which was Peter basically telling Israel that if they repent, God will send Jesus back. That's what anyone gets by simply reading the text. To get anything else requires bringing a contrary doctrine with you.

[4]Again, both true and irrelevant/unresponsive to the discussion.
SNIP

I change font size so I can read the text, as my eyes function well below 20-20.

1) Once again the claim is made to understand a verse differently is to not believe the text. Nonsense

2) The relevancy is that no matter how long until the return, we are to live as if it was imminent.

3) Your the one that brought a quick return to Acts 3:18, not me.

4) The kingdom of God is at hand, which is responsive to the discussion. Just read the title of the thread.

 

[JD731]

1) The difficulty of Matthew 16:28 is untangled by assuming the reference is to the transformation.
<snip>

Mt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus was referring to the transfiguration. He made this statement as he and his disciples made their way toward Judah and Jerusalem where he would be crucified. For one to grasp this truth one must understand how God uses metaphors because the transfiguration paints a picture in real time with real events and they are prophetic to a point, representing all the principles of the kingdom of Christ, including his glorification.Those who reject the coming physical kingdom of God on the earth will never, I repeat, never understand this portion of scripture.

 

[CJP69]

I change font size so I can read the text, as my eyes function well below 20-20.

1) Once again the claim is made to understand a verse differently is to not believe the text. Nonsense

I never made any such claim. Can you read?

2) The relevancy is that no matter how long until the return, we are to live as if it was imminent.

Saying that this is relevant to the discussion doesn't make it actually relevant to the discussion. This particular point, as far as it goes, isn't even under dispute.

3) Your the one that brought a quick return to Acts 3:18, not me.

Liar. The thread is all still here for the entire world to read. I mentioned the verse in my argument and then you responded by claiming that the verse meant something other than a simple reading of the text itself would imply. I then rebutted that by, more or less telling that saying it doesn't make it so and that you don't get to bring your doctrine to the text and then insist that it has to mean something consistent with that doctrine. If that were valid then there'd be no way to invalidate any doctrine that any wild-eyed nut job wanted to conjure up.

4) The kingdom of God is at hand, which is responsive to the discussion. Just read the title of the thread.

Once again with the font change. Ugh!

The truth of this statement depends on what you mean by "kingdom of God". If you mean in a general sense then it isn't merely at hand, it is here right now and believers are all members of that kingdom. If, on the other hand, you are referring to the Kingdom of Israel, when Christ will sit on physical throne in Jerusalem and reign over the entire Earth for a thousand years then it's somewhat different. It is "at hand" in the sense the we do not know when God will end the dispensation of grace and turn back again to Israel and, as such, we should therefore live our lives as though His returning is happening later today. That however, is really a sort of figure of speech because we should live our lives the same whether Jesus is coming today or not for another 10,000 years. The fact is that our next breath is not promised to us and neither is our neighbor's next breath and so we ought to live as though time is short because it may be very much shorter than we think. The point there being that a simple affirmation that the kingdom of God is at hand is more or less a uninformative answer to what is being asked.

 

[CJP69]

Mt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus was referring to the transfiguration. He made this statement as he and his disciples made their way toward Judah and Jerusalem where he would be crucified. For one to grasp this truth one must understand how God uses metaphors because the transfiguration paints a picture in real time with real events and they are prophetic to a point, representing all the principles of the kingdom of Christ, including his glorification.Those who reject the coming physical kingdom of God on the earth will never, I repeat, never understand this portion of scripture.

No, He absolutely was not referring to the transfiguration!

 

[JD731]

1) Did Jesus come to inaugurate His earthly kingdom? Nope, that happens when He returns.

Jesus has not inaugurated his kingdom yet and it is 2000 years later. If he did it today then no one would say it is is what Jesus meant by his kingdom being at hand when he came lest they be counted as a fool. Jesus said all during his ministry until the last days of his earthly ministry that his kingdom was at hand and that it was good news and glad tidings. Obviously he intended to leave for a while and return because those who had believed his gospel would have had to receive his Spirit from God the Father in heaven and be born again and when all the citizens of his nation were born again, he would return as King over all the earth like the prophets said. Jesus said in John 14 that if he did not leave the Spirit would not come.

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

They were given a stewardship while he was gone.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

Watch this after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and try to understand that God has shown us that not only does he consider Israel as the sons of Abraham individually but he considers them as the son of God collectively and this son must be born again collectively. This is why the parable I quoted above says he will kill them who are not in favor of his earthly kingdom when he returns. This is the reason Jesus says "a man" must be born again in order to enter the kingdom in the passage I quoted in John 3. This man is his son collectively who were born of the flesh but not yet born of the Spirit. You may read in Ex 4 to read Jesus calling Israel collectively his firstborn son. To keep the post from being too long I will quote two other passages in the Acts to confirm what I am telling you.

Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have underlined the operative command to this nation. There will be no physical kingdom until every Israel citizen is saved through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and has the Spirit dwelling in them.

Notice this and please read the whole context;

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.(Remember the parable from Matthew that I quoted about Jesus going to the Father to get his kingdom and returning and killing those who would not submit to his rule)
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. (The underlined is the operative phrase in this passage.

The scriptures are logical, reasonable, and true but they require believing the words in order to learn them.

I will deal with these other of your points as we move on.




2) When will Jesus reign from David's throne? When He returns.
3) "All Israel" will be comprised of all born anew believers, both believing blood line Jews and believing non-blood line Jews (Gentiles).
4) Learnings that impact our understanding of how people are being saved are discerned from reading and studying scripture with an open mind, not blinded by presuppositions.
5) The spiritual kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand, now and since Christ began His public ministry.
6) The earthy kingdom of God will be inaugurated when Christ returns.[/QUOTE]

 

[JD731]

No, He absolutely was not referring to the transfiguration!

That is easy to assert but harder to prove CJP69. I am willing to agree with you if you can prove it in context and with logic and reason and right words. However, These men have tried to teach me to prove the scriptures with short sound bites, but I will not bite. If you will not explain your doctrine then don't expect me to believe it.

 

[percho]

Percho, nothing against you personally and I am glad to be exchanging ideas with you but sometimes I read things that are so overwhelmingly wrong that when I read it causes my jaw to drop and I almost fall out off my chair. Your quote is one of those times. What do you mean that all authority and rule and power has been made "useless?" Not some, but all?

The context of 1 Cor 15:24 is the eternal state when all the earth will be subdued and subjected to the heavenly rule of the Father in heaven including that earthly kingdom of the second man, the last Adam, Jesus Christ. It does not mean there will be no authority or power or rule by anyone or that such rule power and authority beame useless at some point. People who write things like this should be highly suspect as working for the enemy.

all authority and rule and power has been made "useless?"

That is Young's Literal translation of G2673 from 1 Cor 15:24 NKJV = He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power

V's 25,26 NKJV For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

V 24 Then ------- the end, when He delivers the kingdom [the reign YLT] to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Does this delivery of the kingdom being delivered up to the God and Father occur just after [the] death is destroyed? How is [the] death destroyed?

Question relative to the following?

YLT and each in his proper order, [1] a first-fruit Christ, [2] afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence. [Rev 20:4 then -- [3] the end[ one thousand years later Rev 20:5 the rest of the dead] when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet -- the last enemy is done away -- death;

The order of being made alive out of the dead.

And as I stated yet not sure of my understanding even after that above we have the tree of life.

 

[percho]

I expect glorified humans will have a degree of autonomy as they rule under our sovereign God in the New Earth.

With out a doubt

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matt 19:28

 

[Van]

I never made any such claim. Can you read?
SNIP
Liar.
SNIP
/QUOTE]

Please stop addressing posts to me. Your behavior is despicable.

 

[Van]

Jesus has not inaugurated his kingdom yet and it is 2000 years later. If he did it today then no one would say it is is what Jesus meant by his kingdom being at hand when he came lest they be counted as a fool. Jesus said all during his ministry until the last days of his earthly ministry that his kingdom was at hand and that it was good news and glad tidings. SNIP

Watch this after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and try to understand that God has shown us that not only does he consider Israel as the sons of Abraham individually but he considers them as the son of God collectively and this son must be born again collectively.
SNIP
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have underlined the operative command to this nation. There will be no physical kingdom until every Israel citizen is saved through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and has the Spirit dwelling in them.

Perry Mason might object, as in facts not in evidence.

1) Everyone of you, all those present, and by inference all those who had rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah. But the statement asks for those being addressed to take an individual actions, repent and be water baptized, thus the claimed application to the entire group is a fiction of your own (or borrowed) authorship.

2) You have it backwards, when a Jew or Gentile, according to bloodline, is saved, they then become a citizen of "All Israel."

 

[CJP69]

Jesus has not inaugurated his kingdom yet and it is 2000 years later. If he did it today then no one would say it is is what Jesus meant by his kingdom being at hand when he came lest they be counted as a fool.

He won't do it today, so...

 

[CJP69]

That is easy to assert but harder to prove CJP69. I am willing to agree with you if you can prove it in context and with logic and reason and right words. However, These men have tried to teach me to prove the scriptures with short sound bites, but I will not bite. If you will not explain your doctrine then don't expect me to believe it.

Oh! Is that what we're doing here?

Following your lead, I thought we were just throwing out unsupported claims as though our showing up to state it made it so!

My bad!

 

[CJP69]

The entire thread is still here for the whole entire planet to read, Van.

It is required that people actually read it though. An act you're counting on people not doing.

 

[Van]

The kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand. Is this a physical kingdom? Nope. It is a spiritual kingdom that can be entered right now. Colossians 1:13

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.​

​

 

[JD731]

Oh! Is that what we're doing here?

Following your lead, I thought we were just throwing out unsupported claims as though our showing up to state it made it so!

My bad!

Hear this, I have been oft times criticised for too long posts. But, I undergird all my points with scripture, and not just one sentence but enough to establish context when I can. I am not throwing out unsupported claims and I take offence to your charge. When I made the claim that Jesus in the transfiguration was picturing the kingdom in established metaphors and that any who will understand the prophetic purpose would need to understand the metaphors and also he would need to acknowledge that throughout the entire scriptures, the way of God to dispense his truth is in this manner. The scriptures are written in a manner that is not like any man would write them even if they could, but they can't. The truths must be revealed to a man by the Spirit who indwells him and those who do not have the Spirit are on their own and do the best they can.

This is the reason we must have the words that God chooses because one must compare scriptures in order to understand the metaphors and types. And, I must agree with Van that your behavior here is not gracious and to disagree with you is a reason for you to begin name calling.

Here is my proof that the parables of scriptures, which takes the characteristics of the type is to prepare us to understand the antitype.

MT 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The Jews had just heard Jesus say this to them

Jn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
And
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

So they said this to him.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you (plainly), and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.



Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Mark 4:34
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

The parables require a divine teacher.

1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

I do not mind you disagreeing with me. It does not intimidate me. However I do not like you saying I do not prove my points with your snarky remarks.

 

[CJP69]

The kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand. Is this a physical kingdom? Nope. It is a spiritual kingdom that can be entered right now. Colossians 1:13

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
​

The apostles disagreed with you and there is nothing but your doctrine (i.e. nothing in the text) to support this claim you've made, you're completely out of context proof-texting not withstanding.

 

[CJP69]

Hear this, I have been oft times criticised for too long posts. But, I undergird all my points with scripture, and not just one sentence but enough to establish context when I can. I am not throwing out unsupported claims and I take offence to your charge. When I made the claim that Jesus in the transfiguration was picturing the kingdom in established metaphors and that any who will understand the prophetic purpose would need to understand the metaphors and also he would need to acknowledge that throughout the entire scriptures, the way of God to dispense his truth is in this manner. The scriptures are written in a manner that is not like any man would write them even if they could, but they can't. The truths must be revealed to a man by the Spirit who indwells him and those who do not have the Spirit are on their own and do the best they can.

This is the reason we must have the words that God chooses because one must compare scriptures in order to understand the metaphors and types. And, I must agree with Van that your behavior here is not gracious and to disagree with you is a reason for you to begin name calling.

Here is my proof that the parables of scriptures, which takes the characteristics of the type is to prepare us to understand the antitype.

MT 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The Jews had just heard Jesus say this to them

Jn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
And
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

So they said this to him.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you (plainly), and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.



Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Mark 4:34
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

The parables require a divine teacher.

1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

I do not mind you disagreeing with me. It does not intimidate me. However I do not like you saying I do not prove my points with your snarky remarks.

My one liner post was in response to your own one liner post. The point was "saying it doesn't make it so", which you seem to agree with.

In short, if that point doesn't apply to you then great but I was just responding to what was posted. I do not know you and don't keep track of what you post. My response was to that particular post of yours not to you personally, per se. If you do, in fact, substantiate your positions as a typical matter of course then you are the exception to the rule around here and so I'd say my reaction was, at very least, understandable. Most everyone here couldn't care less about making actual arguments and are simply here to give voice to their personal opinions and can't be bothered to take the time to post more than three sentences at a time.

Once again, if your one liner post caused me to mistake you for one of them then I'm happy to accept that. Indeed, you and I might be able to have a really interesting exchange! What do you say we start over, yes?

For the record, I completely reject the notion that the scriptures can't be understood by simply reading them. What would have been the point of writing a book that no one can understand without special revelation? Why not just skip the book and do the special revelation and be done with it? Indeed, you attempt to establish such a case by quoting, and thereby asking people to read, the very book you're telling them that they can't understand. See the problem?

That, however, is not to say that I reject the notion of special revelation. Paul received it and was given power to perform miracles to substantiate that he was the man of God that he claimed to be. In fact, the entire book of Romans (and the rest of Paul's epistles, for that matter) are Paul recording for us, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that special revelation which he received from Christ. Do I understand you to be saying that we are to expect another layer of spiritual revelation from God to understand that which God Himself already inspired other men to write down, or am I misunderstanding your position?

 

[JD731]

<<
Snip>>


For the record, I completely reject the notion that the scriptures can't be understood by simply reading them. What would have been the point of writing a book that no one can understand without special revelation? Why not just skip the book and do the special revelation and be done with it? Indeed, you attempt to establish such a case by quoting, and thereby asking people to read, the very book you're telling them that they can't understand. See the problem?

Well, I suppose it is how you look at it. If just reading the scriptures was enough for everyone to understand them then I am not sure why God established a pastoral office and gave him the instructions to study the scriptures so he will be able to teach others and then instructed his church to be sure to assemble themselves regularly for the instructions, among other benefits. Let them read them if that is all it takes. The eunuch in Acts 8 was reading Isaiah 53, a chapter that seems simple to understand to us today, yet when Phillip asked him if he understood it his response was to ask Phillip how he could understand unless someone guided him. He was no dumbbell. He held a very responsible office in his government.

Now, if you make the case that scriptures can be understood by just reading them it just means you have not been on this web site very long because there are not two people here who agrees with one another and yet they all claim to be saved and most of them want you to know how many books they have read and how smart they are. The reason they do not agree is because they do not define words the same way. You can test this yourself. Just start a thread and ask the posters to define the church of Jesus Christ. If some of these guys give honest definitions you will see some stuff that is wild. Then since we all use the term church, we just assume we are all talking about the same thing because we have forgotten said definitions. Remember Van; he thinks the church has morphed into Israel.

One time a few years ago I quoted the most simple worded passage in the whole Bible that explained who Jesus died for and was blown out of the water about who in the passage was ungodly.

Ro 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

No one agreed about who were the ungodly for whom Christ died. Mind boggling considering the context so far.

That, however, is not to say that I reject the notion of special revelation. Paul received it and was given power to perform miracles to substantiate that he was the man of God that he claimed to be. In fact, the entire book of Romans (and the rest of Paul's epistles, for that matter) are Paul recording for us, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that special revelation which he received from Christ. Do I understand you to be saying that we are to expect another layer of spiritual revelation from God to understand that which God Himself already inspired other men to write down, or am I misunderstanding your position?

Many years ago I was sitting on my front porch that faced the State Route Road I lived beside when a JW and his two pre-teen daughters passed by and saw me sitting there and I suppose he thought it would be a good time to give then some on the job training into how to proselyte among the Baptists. This was not a saved man and he did not know the scriptures by reading them, if indeed he had read them. After a while of discussing a few different subjects by which he became increasingly frustrated, he asked me a question about who raised Jesus from the dead, with the idea that he could trick me since he did not believe Jesus is God and he did not believe in the trinity. My answer was that the trinity raised Jesus from the dead. This caused a loud guffaw from his lips and he wanted me to prove it, so I gave him these three passages.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

So Jesus said he will raise himself from the dead, and he did.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

This passage says the Spirit of God and Jesus raised his body from the dead.

Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

God the Father raised Jesus from the dead. How can these things be? To know will require some light on the ways of God.

This man could neither understand this nor could I teach him because he did not have the Spirit dwelling in him. This caused him to scoop up his two daughters and angrily leave my driveway burning rubber. I had been gracious with him and had reasoned with him out of the scriptures, This brings me to say that the Bible is not for unsaved people. I know of nary a time that God sent a Bible to unsaved people, but he sends a preacher who has been saved and knows God through Christ. A man must be born again to understand and make sense of the scriptures. A man is born again by hearing the gospel of Christ and believing it. One does not need a Bible to preach the gospel. He need a personal testimony from a man who has been saved and who has a firm conviction that God will save anyone who puts their trust in Jesus Christ.

A man might be saved by believing the gospel of Christ yet never know the deep things God would teach him but dead sure an unsaved man has no chance of ever understanding the deep things of God. They are mysteries of God that must be revealed to the heart by the Spirit through the words God has chosen for that task. God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe, he said.

1Co 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

My next post will be back on topic concerning the kingdom.

 

[JD731]

The kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand. Is this a physical kingdom? Nope. It is a spiritual kingdom that can be entered right now. Colossians 1:13

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
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The emphasis of this thread is to determine the meaning of "at hand." The OT is full of references to a physical and earthly kingdom where a particular seed of Abraham through David will be the eternal King. No one can deny that the OT says this. This means that all involved, Abraham, David, Israel, the KIng, the earth are all going to be everlasting. The Abrahamic Covenants and the Davidic Covenant, and the land Covenat, we are told are everlasting covenants. Then, in the prophets this kingdom is described in glowing terms that have never been realized on this earth. What I am dealing with here is unbelief in those who say they believe the scriptures.

Another problem I see is the Bible words I am quoting are not the same words that are in Bibles of those who deny the kingdom is at hand when Jesus, the King, came to Israel. He was crucified by those to whom he came and through whom the kingdom must be established by their acceptance of him. This is a great problem and divides Christians into believing Christians and non believing Christians. Non believing Christians do not accept the words in any portion of the Bible concerning an everlasting earthly kindom over which Jesus Christ will rule.A stronger rejection of Jesus as King could not have been stated by the rulers of Israel than crucifying him on a Roman cross while crying to the top of their lungs that they had no king but Ceasar.

I know from reading the words I believe came from God that he rewarded this generation of Jesus Christ, which ended when he would have been 70 years old (ps 90:10) with a curse, saying he would not save them and he began to speak to them in parables so they could not understand and believe in this mystery form of the kingdom which is desribed and defined in Matt 13 in the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven parables, and later by the apostle Paul to gentiles. (see Ep 3:1-6). You Christians who do not believe my Bible but believe your Bibles should present your case that the kingdom is at hand means something different that it was near and God was ready to establish it upon the earth by sending Jesus to redeem Israel so it can be brought to pass that a man, every man, must be born again before he can enter into it. The mystery form of the kingdom had both good and bad, some having a marriage robe and some not. There is leaven, which is corruption in the mystery form and also devils roosting in the branches of the Christian tree that has been created by the leaven.

There was another generation of Israel who refused to enter into the rest of God and they are referenced in Hebrews 3 as being the unbelieving pattern for the generation of Jesus Christ and those who refused to enter the promised land all died, except for a small number, two men in this case, who were blessed to enter in. In Hebrews 6 and 10 the warning to this nation is that their generational decision is final as far as God is concerned and no amount of repenting for this generation of Israelites will see his kingdom if they did not repent in the accepted time. There was a probation for this generation of Jews but when Hebrews was written in about 67 AD, some 3 to 4 years before their total destruction as a nation, the time was short. The crazy doctrine that a man is not responsible for his decisions is a doctrine from the devil himself. History would have been written differently had the Jewish nation repented and received her King and savior, Jesus christ, the son of God, the Christ of God.

Another way to determine what God means by the phrase "at hand" is to study out how it is used in context in other passages throughout the scriptures. Again, with 150 different English Bibles all having different words it is probably unreasonable to think we could come together on the meaning that way, even though it is the very way I would make my determination because I have complete confidence in the words of my Bible. I will post all the passages in the scriptures that have that phrase but not in this post because it is long enough already. Looking at those references in my Bible will show that one must believe that "at hand" meant in the gospel accounts that the time was near for the kingdom, beginning with the Jewish nation. Maybe, if not probably, the phrase does not appear is some of your Bibles so how could we believe the same things about the kingdom?

Probation:

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

In reality it, the fig tree, the national symbol for Israel was removed from the vineyard, the land, in 70 AD. He did not say how long after that he would cut it down, but we know history and can answer that question today exactly.

 

[Van]

Van said: ↑
The kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand. Is this a physical kingdom? Nope. It is a spiritual kingdom that can be entered right now. Colossians 1:13

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.​

Thus the physical kingdom was not at hand, and therefore not what Christ had in view when He said the Kingdom was at hand.