Was the world created millions and millions of years ago, part 2?

[OldRegular]

So your contention is that God himself was the source of light (which I believe he is) Yet he provided no other sources from which the light came. In that case how was their darkness since God was present? Light dispells the darkness. So there couldn't be light then Darkness if God was the source of light and present.

Who are you to place limits on what God can or cannot do? I could refer you to some scientific articles that have an explanation for the light but they are very technical and you pretend to be uneducated.

 

[Grasshopper]

I explained that on the other thread, and have explained it at least 3 times on the BB before.

God created light before the sun, so there was light. God does not need the sun to have light - it is a put down to the sun gods, and shows God's power over his creation.

If he had created the sun right off, it would give the sun primacy and also look like God needed the sun to create light.

The sun is what creates a morning and evening and a 24 hour day. Yet you insist those things were present before the creation of the sun.

 

[Grasshopper]

Say it all you want but both questions were answered clearly. You however keep insisting a 24 hour period requires the sun. It in fact does not.

Think about that statement.

Ever been to Alaska (as if I really need to give an example).

Is the morning and evening in Alaska 24 hours?

Anyway light existed before the sun, dark existed and was divided form the light. This was the first day. This division occurred without the sun. Time moves irregardless of the sun.

That light would have to function just as the sun. Is this your belief? This light caused a morning and evening and 24 hour days? Then God created the sun and it took over that function.

 

[Grasshopper]

What difference does it make. Scripture says there was light, that should be sufficient for Christians.

It makes no difference to me, but to you and others that light served the same purpose in the first 3 days as the sun does thereafter. Did that original light change position after the sun was created.

 

[Ed Edwards]

And how is your 24-hour-day going?
And how is your current work shift (8-hour day) going?
And how is your current 48-hour day going (Mine is called March 18, 2009)?

 

[Marcia]

The sun is what creates a morning and evening and a 24 hour day. Yet you insist those things were present before the creation of the sun.

No, God is the one who created morning and evening -- before the sun. That's the whole point. It makes God the creator of days instead of the sun.

Of course I insist those things were present before the sun because that's what it says in Gen. 1.

I do not find it difficult to believe this at all. There was light and then darkness just like when the sun came along, except the sun wasn't there until the 4th day.

 

[Steven2006]

I do tend to believe in six twenty-four hour days. But I am not dogmatic that before God made the sun and the moon that the days couldn't have been longer.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

 

[Revmitchell]

Think about that statement.




Is the morning and evening in Alaska 24 hours?

yes

That light would have to function just as the sun. Is this your belief? This light caused a morning and evening and 24 hour days? Then God created the sun and it took over that function.

No. Light divided from darkness marked the morning from evening.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Who are you to place limits on what God can or cannot do? I could refer you to some scientific articles that have an explanation for the light but they are very technical and you pretend to be uneducated.

Oh so you would keep me in my ignorance like the Politburo of the old Soviet Union? Keep the masses uneducated and thereby control them? :smilewinkgrin:


The fact is the scripture says light then darkness the first day. It doesn't jive with what we know how the world works if you take it literally. That's my point with the statement. In Revelation it says that God is the source of our light in the New Jerusalem so there will not be any need for stars. Ok so what's God doing turning himself on and off every 24 hours? He's not a light bulb! Also according to the Genesis account the earth was established before the stars but that doesn't jive with what we know about the universe. So there are several issues here if you take it literally. Now I'm not saying God couldn't have made the world in 6 days of course he can do anything except an intrinsic impossibility. But how you understand creation in Genesis may not be accurate. Because in the context of the culture it may be different than you think.

 

[annsni]

Oh so you would keep me in my ignorance like the Politburo of the old Soviet Union? Keep the masses uneducated and thereby control them? :smilewinkgrin:


The fact is the scripture says light then darkness the first day. It doesn't jive with what we know how the world works if you take it literally. That's my point with the statement. In Revelation it says that God is the source of our light in the New Jerusalem so there will not be any need for stars. Ok so what's God doing turning himself on and off every 24 hours? He's not a light bulb! Also according to the Genesis account the earth was established before the stars but that doesn't jive with what we know about the universe. So there are several issues here if you take it literally. Now I'm not saying God couldn't have made the world in 6 days of course he can do anything except an intrinsic impossibility. But how you understand creation in Genesis may not be accurate. Because in the context of the culture it may be different than you think.

If God is the source of the light, and He created the light on the first day, then He created Himself on the first day?

That makes no sense at all. The light came from another source - when God spoke it into creation.

 

[annsni]

The sun is what creates a morning and evening and a 24 hour day. Yet you insist those things were present before the creation of the sun.

Yes, in our time, the sun creates the 24 hour day but is God so small that He can't have created day before the sun?

 

[HankD]

Again, no literal 6 day creation then no literal Adam because Adam was created on the 6th day.

If my fellow brethren want to make the days of Genesis 1 "epochs" or whatever, fine, but I see many more reasons than not to do so.

i.e. Were Adam and Eve literal people? Jesus and Paul certainly thought so.

If they were not literal people what then were they?

HankD

 

[HankD]

There are other issues concerning theistic evolution which contradict the Scripture, here are a few:

In the Beginning:

Scripture: Adam was taken from the ground. Evolution: Life came from the sea.

Scripture: Death entered AFTER Adam. Evolution: Death preceded "man".

Scripture: Male and female creation. Evolution: asexual "creation".

Scripture: Species cannot be crossed ("after his kind"). Evolution: No Species barrier


HankD

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Well, I'm sensing sarcasm here. I do not believe in verbal dictation, that's why I said verbal plenary inspiration and posted 3 explanations of it.

I can't get from you whether you believe the Genesis account is historical narrative or a mythlike story.

You're asking for my real belief with regard to creation? I don't want to limit God. He could have done it any way he chose. But I don't think a litteral translation of the creation account is necissary to believe it. I think the important bits of information are related there such as God's supremacy, man's relationship to God, the value of man to God, Man's fall, and promise of redemption. So ultimately I don't know how God did it. Just that he did. I don't think Genesis is a myth in the sense you mean but like how I mentioned about reproduction to children without going into the details. True but not in the way you think.

I was sarcastic but I was also attempting to be funny.


Your definition of Verbal Plenary Inspiration as follows:

Verbal Plenary Inspiration" means "God the Holy Spirit so supernaturally directed the human writers of Scripture that, without waiving their intelligence, their individuality, their personal feelings, their literary style, or any other human factor of expression, His Complete and Coherent Message to mankind was recorded with perfect accuracy in the original languages of Scripture: the very words bearing the Authority of Divine Authorship."


So "Verbal" means, "the Bible in its original languages, from first to last (Autograph), is an exact record of the Mind and Will of God as He intended it to be."

So "Plenary" means, "the entire text of the Bible is equally from God, but not necessarily equally-important."
So "Inspiration" means, 2Tim3:16's "God-breathed" (theopneustos): just as God breathed into Adam's nostrils AFTER MAKING HIS BODY and that made Adam EXHALE and thus become a living soul, so also God's breathing of the Word into the Scripture writers produced an 'exhale' of Canon, without waiving any of their own personal attributes.

Is not accurate with the words used which mine are direct definition. However, using your definition it doesn't really define what you mean by it with regards to dictation or not. You have said that you don't believe in dictation and in the above definition agrees with my analysis of David. David had no clue he was writing about the crucifixtion but God was and inspired David to write it just that way so he could prophesy about his son. Canon just means rule. You could say the compilation of the bible is also inspired and selection of books is inspired.

So since God did not dictate the creation story is it really necissary to believe it literally? It seems to me that to that if you believe in dictation equates inspiration that you must believe in the 6 days even if evidence suggest otherwise. However, if you don't believe in Dictation you're not limited to it.

 

[Revmitchell]

So since God did not dictate the creation story is it really necissary to believe it literally? It seems to me that to that if you believe in dictation equates inspiration that you must believe in the 6 days even if evidence suggest otherwise. However, if you don't believe in Dictation you're not limited to it.

You have created your own rule for how scripture came to be. You take one passage (Psalm 22) and apply your own idea of conception to all of scripture.

There is in fact much of scripture that was dictated. All of the Prophets received direct Revelations. Paul and John did as well. There is no reason we should not believe that Moses, the clear author of Genesis, did not receive Genesis as a direct revelation from God. A study of how scripture came to be would help you out greatly.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You have created your own rule for how scripture came to be. You take one passage (Psalm 22) and apply your own idea of conception to all of scripture.

There is in fact much of scripture that was dictated. All of the Prophets received direct Revelations. Paul and John did as well. There is no reason we should not believe that Moses, the clear author of Genesis, did not receive Genesis as a direct revelation from God. A study of how scripture came to be would help you out greatly.

You're entirely wrong I was discussing how scripture was inspired. No new rule here. You believe in dictation? or not. Looks like you do. Some things were direct revelation like John, or Ezekiel but the truth is the inspiration of scriptures occured in different ways. Like the historical books are still inspired are they not ?but you wouldn't say the scribes were inspired in the same manner as the prophets. Luke was inspired but he took a more systematic approach using research. I think a study of how scripture came to be would help you out greatly. Somethings like the Law were direct revelation others were not. All you have to do is read the text to know that. As far as the Torah how much did Moses get from direct revelation how much from oral tradition? Did Moses need direct revelation to write about Abraham or did he just need to ask some Hebrew scribes what happened to Abraham? See maybe you should look at how the bible was compiled. And though you may regret it You should look at how the text we have now became canon. Tell me this. When do you think 1 and 2 Chronicles were written and that will explain a lot about how you view the compilation of scriptures.

 

[Grasshopper]

No, God is the one who created morning and evening -- before the sun. That's the whole point. It makes God the creator of days instead of the sun.

Of course I insist those things were present before the sun because that's what it says in Gen. 1.

I do not find it difficult to believe this at all. There was light and then darkness just like when the sun came along, except the sun wasn't there until the 4th day.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

 

[Revmitchell]

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

 

[Grasshopper]

Yes, in our time, the sun creates the 24 hour day but is God so small that He can't have created day before the sun?

1. God did create a "day" before the sun. Nobody disputes this.

2. Is God so small He could not have created a day that is billions of years?

 

[Grasshopper]

Again, no literal 6 day creation then no literal Adam because Adam was created on the 6th day.

Is a billion year "day" not just as literal as a 24 hour "day"?

Either way Adam was created in the 6th day. Not sure why you insist Adam can't be a "literal" man if days are epochs instead of hours.