Washing Our Windows

[Van]

Imagine God's Relief and Joy at your lost work of opening the door of your MAGNIFICENCE for The Eternal God to be GRANTED the Privilege of Crediting your filthy blood stained menstrual rags with Perfect Holy Righteousness.
You have to.
It didn't.

Still claiming faith is works, unable to grasp Romans 4:4-5.

 

[Van]

The renewal of the human heart through rebirth was part of both covenants

No, Christ was the first to be regenerated, all born anew believers followed Him in the regeneration.

John 3
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

No one entered the kingdom until after Christ, because no one was regenerated until after Christ died.

Deuteronomy 10
15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Under the Old Covenant, people obtained approval through faith and not works, but they had to wait in Abraham's bosom until after Christ died to be made perfect.

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

And yet again a verse is posted referring to the lost under the Old Covenant putting their faith wholly in Christ. But even after they obtained approval through faith, they had to wait in Abraham's bosom to be made perfect.

 

[HankD]

No, Christ was the first to be regenerated, all born anew believers followed Him in the regeneration.
No one entered the kingdom until after Christ, because no one was regenerated until after Christ died.

Under the Old Covenant, people obtained approval through faith and not works, but they had to wait in Abraham's bosom until after Christ died to be made perfect.

And yet again a verse is posted referring to the lost under the Old Covenant putting their faith wholly in Christ. But even after they obtained approval through faith, they had to wait in Abraham's bosom to be made perfect.

i agree , however they were all born again but not perfected in the faith of the messiah redeemer awaiting Him to be made perfect.

The final phase of that perfection we all await - the resurrection of our bodies along with the OT saints.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Van]

i agree , however they were all born again but not perfected in the faith of the messiah redeemer awaiting Him to be made perfect.

The final phase of that perfection we all await - the resurrection of our bodies along with the OT saints.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

I have already addressed this false claim.
Why did no one enter heaven before Christ died? No answer will be forthcoming.
Why have those enrolled in Heaven, been made perfect.

If you cannot see (enter) the kingdom until you are born anew, and no one entered until they were made perfect, how can you deny we are made perfect when we are born anew, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.

You cannot claim to be made perfect refers to our bodily redemption, because spiritually those enrolled in Heaven, have already been made perfect.

 

[Alan Gross]

Still claiming faith is works, unable to grasp Romans 4:4-5.

You made yourself born again.

Roman's 4:4-5 talks about God.

God Justified.

It was 'the ungodly' that God Justified.

'Ungodly' are ungodly.

The ungodly are mentioned in Roman's 4:4-5.

The ungodly did not have any 'faith'.

The ungodly had ungodliness.

That ungodliness, without 'faith', or 'belief' is what God Acted on.

God Gave the 'un-able-to-believe-God-Who-is-Spirit-because-their-ungodliness-was-dead in trespasses in sins', the ability to believe Him that Justifieth the 'un-able-to-believe-God-Who-is-Spirit-because-their-ungodliness-was-dead in trespasses in sins'.

Logically the God Who Quickens the dead, Gave Life to the 'un-able-to-believe-God-Who-is-Spirit-because-their-ungodliness-was-dead in trespasses in sins', and belief, prior to Repentance and Faith.

Any 'Faith' they had was The Gift of God to the ungodly who had none.

Your 'Life from No-Life' reinvention of Evolution is a demand to God that you have born yourself, again, you are your Savior, and God Can Be Releived that You Opened The Door of your HEART AND "LET" Him Worship your MAGNIFICENT SMAURTNESS.

 

[HankD]

I have already addressed this false claim.
Why did no one enter heaven before Christ died? No answer will be forthcoming.

He had not yet opened the door.
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Why have those enrolled in Heaven, been made perfect.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

If you cannot see (enter) the kingdom until you are born anew, and no one entered until they were made perfect, how can you deny we are made perfect when we are born anew, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.

I don't deny it.

You cannot claim to be made perfect refers to our bodily redemption, because spiritually those enrolled in Heaven, have already been made perfect.

Then perhaps those in heaven ALREADY have their resurrected bodies. I'll find out when I get there.
In any case that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THE OT SAINTS WERE BORN AGAIN HERE ON EARTH.

 

[Alan Gross]

Still claiming faith is works, unable to grasp Romans 4:4-5.

When God Says a word in a Passage you qoute, do you just skip that word, and start making stuff up?

"ungodly"

Where you ever "ungodly"?

"ungodly" does not posses "belief", or "faith", unless it is ungodly belief and ungodly faith.

The "ungodly" in that verse could not be Credited by God for something they did not have.

They were ungodly.

Either you have been ungodly and have been Given Belief and Faith, or you have not Gotten Faith that would ever be Credited for Righteousness.

That ungodly faith would be ungodly, still, with it's only potential to be Credited by God, in Hell.

The risk of misinterpreting one word "ungodly", or skipping that word, "ungodly", God Says in that verse you quoted, could be Eternally Fatal.

 

[Van]

When God Says a word in a Passage you qoute, do you just skip that word, and start making stuff up?

"ungodly"

Where you ever "ungodly"?

"ungodly" does not posses "belief", or "faith", unless it is ungodly belief and ungodly faith.

The "ungodly" in that verse could not be Credited by God for something they did not have.

They were ungodly.

Either you have been ungodly and have been Given Belief and Faith, or you have not Gotten Faith that would ever be Credited for Righteousness.

That ungodly faith would be ungodly, still, with it's only potential to be Credited by God, in Hell.

The risk of misinterpreting one word "ungodly", or skipping that word, "ungodly", God Says in that verse you quoted, could be Eternally Fatal.

Yet another waste of electrons, posting a change the subject effort. Faith is not works. God credits our faith, not His instilled faith.

 

[Van]

He had not yet opened the door.
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I don't deny it.

Then perhaps those in heaven ALREADY have their resurrected bodies. I'll find out when I get there.
In any case that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THE OT SAINTS WERE BORN AGAIN HERE ON EARTH.

Yet another change the just post. The OT saints were not made perfect, they had to wait until Christ died, Hebrews 11:39-40. When we are set apart in Christ, we are made perfect, made alive, justified, regenerated, saved, made holy and blameless. When Christ comes again, we will be adopted (redeemed in glorified bodies.)
1Th 4:15
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

1Th 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1Th 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[HankD]

Yet another change the just post. The OT saints were not made perfect, they had to wait until Christ died, Hebrews 11:39-40. When we are set apart in Christ, we are made perfect, made alive, justified, regenerated, saved, made holy and blameless. When Christ comes again, we will be adopted (redeemed in glorified bodies.)
1Th 4:15
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

1Th 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1Th 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Van you keep using the personal pronoun "we" it seems including the OT saints related to our experience.
While it is true "we" shall all be in the New Jerusalem for eternity their life experience was different from ours.

Again, they were born again but did not experience all that we (post Pentecost) saints experience.

As you said they dwelt in "Abraham's Bosom'.

I believe until after Christ's resurrection and Assumption at which time he opened the door/gates to the city not built with hands.

Even at that we await the resurrection of our bodies though we have the indwelling of the Spirit.

 

[John of Japan]

I reject your rejection of God.
...
I reject your rejection of The Bible.

These are vicious attacks of a fellow believer in Christ. Doesn't this bother your conscience?

 

[Alan Gross]

These are vicious attacks of a fellow believer in Christ. Doesn't this bother your conscience?

Rejection is an attack.

Rejecting rejection nullifies the attack.

Rejecting the rejection of God and God's Word are both Worship.

I reject the assumption that those who reject God and His Word, and do so, habitually, are a Brother or Sister, in Christ.

That is their testimony.

I am simply not making the assumption, not any accusation.

I can attempt to care for and admonish whoever.

My conscience before God is nourished by Bragging on His Son and Speaking His Words.

 

[John of Japan]

Rejection is an attack.

Rejecting rejection nullifies the attack.

Rejecting the rejection of God and God's Word are both Worship.

I suggest that you need to learn English grammar better if you think you did not personally attack Van. Your attacks were vicious, uncalled for, and against BB rules. At this point I have no respect left for you, and reject further interaction here.

 

[Alan Gross]

I suggest that you need to learn English grammar better if you think you did not personally attack Van. Your attacks were vicious, uncalled for, and against BB rules. At this point I have no respect left for you, and reject further interaction here.

Name one.

 

[Van]

Van you keep using the personal pronoun "we" it seems including the OT saints related to our experience.
While it is true "we" shall all be in the New Jerusalem for eternity their life experience was different from ours.

Again, they were born again but did not experience all that we (post Pentecost) saints experience.

As you said they dwelt in "Abraham's Bosom'.

I believe until after Christ's resurrection and Assumption at which time he opened the door/gates to the city not built with hands.

Even at that we await the resurrection of our bodies though we have the indwelling of the Spirit.

We refers to those set apart in Christ, thus we are those who have been born anew, and does not include the OT Saints who gained approval through faith but had to wait in Abraham's bosom until Christ died to be made perfect (born anew.)

No verse says or suggests the OT Saints were born anew before Christ died, none, zip, nada.

The false assertion you are making is simply Calvinism 101. All they have is to point to something that happened under the Old Covenant and claim it is referring to being born anew. But what it is is redefining a word or phrase to conform to their man-made doctrine.

 

[Alan Gross]

We refers to those set apart in Christ, thus we are those who have been born anew, and does not include the OT Saints who gained approval through faith but had to wait in Abraham's bosom until Christ died to be made perfect (born anew.)

No verse says or suggests the OT Saints were born anew before Christ died, none, zip, nada.

The false assertion you are making is simply Calvinism 101. All they have is to point to something that happened under the Old Covenant and claim it is referring to being born anew. But what it is is redefining a word or phrase to conform to their man-made doctrine.

Do you have two different gospels?

 

[HankD]

No verse says or suggests the OT Saints were born anew before Christ died, none, zip, nada.

I keep showing you but you wont receive it.

Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[Alan Gross]

I keep showing you but you wont receive it.

Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[HankD]

you have a good style but be careful of the stairs.

 

[Van]

I keep showing you but you wont receive it.

Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

And I have explained the verse but you will not receive the obvious. Men of God were persecuted both in OT times and NT times, but that does not require or even suggest both were born anew. Isaac was born according to God's promise to Abraham, so he was physically born according to the Spirit.

The assertion that OT saints were born anew in Christ but were not made perfect is ludicrous.