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Watch out for HyperCalvinism!

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Was listening to a WOTM radio podcast and heard some Hyper Calvinist whom were calling on open condemnation on certain types of sinners that I am not allowed to mention here. They were calling on the open stoning of such persons, and were openly targeting such types. These "so called" street evangelists were not a part of Fred Phelps rag tag bunch, but yet another hyper group gone wild. What saddened me was how they would target certain types of sinners and ignore other sinners. Such antics are truly nothing but Hyper Calvinist in nature. WinMan or another Arminian may claim that Hyper and Biblical Calvinism are one and the same but this is completely false!

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm

A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:
Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace," OR
Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.


I have had debates with some of these extremists on FB and they are impossible to persuade. God does love the non-elect, however his love for the elect is greater, but He does desire to save sinners from the fire. The doctrine of common grace applies to all mankind and not just the elect.

Common grace is extended to everyone. It is God's goodness to humanity in general whereby God graciously restrains the full expression of sin and mitigates sin's destructive effects in human society. Common grace imposes moral constraints on people's behavior, maintains a semblance of order in human affairs, enforces a sense of right and wrong through conscience and civil government, enables men and women to appreciate beauty and goodness, and imparts blessings of all kinds to elect and non-elect alike.

The Hyper Calvinist open air preacher loves to tell people that God hates them. The Hyper Calvinist is very judgmental and oftentimes will never pray, or pass out a tract, because the Hyper Calvinist does not desire all men to repent (1 Pet 3:9) but desires God to punish and burn people in the fire. The Hyper Calvinist has little if any love.

The difference between me and the Hyper Calvinist is that I preach God's love, but also his judgment and his wrath. Only the elect will respond to salvation (Acts 13:48, Romans 9:11, 15-16) but God desires repentance for all of mankind.

More websites
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/reformed-theology-vs-hyper-calvinism/
http://www.corkfpc.com/hypercalvinism.html --- Hyper Calvinism and evangelism
http://www.trinity-baptist-church.com/diff6.shtml
 
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Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are conflating things e. What you heard on the radio podcast are things that other groups who are called hyper-Calvinists would repudiate. You are too quick to broadbrush things. You have that bad habit.

For instance the Gospel Standard folks of the UK would be aghast at the antics of whoever you heard --stoning people? Come on. Folks may rail against hyper-Calvinism is -- but what you heard has nothing to do with them.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are conflating things e. What you heard on the radio podcast are things that other groups who are called hyper-Calvinists would repudiate. You are too quick to broadbrush things. You have that bad habit.

For instance the Gospel Standard folks of the UK would be aghast at the antics of whoever you heard --stoning people? Come on. Folks may rail against hyper-Calvinism is -- but what you heard has nothing to do with them.

Are you saying these were not Hyper-Calvinist?

Check out the episode

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/...ecial-way-of-the-master-flashback-365268.html
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Was listening to a WOTM radio podcast and heard some Hyper Calvinist whom were calling on open condemnation on certain types of sinners that I am not allowed to mention here. They were calling on the open stoning of such persons, and were openly targeting such types. These "so called" street evangelists were not a part of Fred Phelps rag tag bunch, but yet another hyper group gone wild. What saddened me was how they would target certain types of sinners and ignore other sinners. Such antics are truly nothing but Hyper Calvinist in nature. WinMan or another Arminian may claim that Hyper and Biblical Calvinism are one and the same but this is completely false!

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm

[/B]

I have had debates with some of these extremists on FB and they are impossible to persuade. God does love the non-elect, however his love for the elect is greater, but He does desire to save sinners from the fire. The doctrine of common grace applies to all mankind and not just the elect.



The Hyper Calvinist open air preacher loves to tell people that God hates them. The Hyper Calvinist is very judgmental and oftentimes will never pray, or pass out a tract, because the Hyper Calvinist does not desire all men to repent (1 Pet 3:9) but desires God to punish and burn people in the fire. The Hyper Calvinist has little if any love.

The difference between me and the Hyper Calvinist is that I preach God's love, but also his judgment and his wrath. Only the elect will respond to salvation (Acts 13:48, Romans 9:11, 15-16) but God desires repentance for all of mankind.

More websites
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/reformed-theology-vs-hyper-calvinism/
http://www.corkfpc.com/hypercalvinism.html --- Hyper Calvinism and evangelism
http://www.trinity-baptist-church.com/diff6.shtml

Hyper Calvinist open air preachers?!?
 

pinoybaptist

Active Member
Site Supporter
Was listening to a WOTM radio podcast and heard some Hyper Calvinist whom were calling on open condemnation on certain types of sinners that I am not allowed to mention here. They were calling on the open stoning of such persons, and were openly targeting such types. These "so called" street evangelists were not a part of Fred Phelps rag tag bunch, but yet another hyper group gone wild. What saddened me was how they would target certain types of sinners and ignore other sinners. Such antics are truly nothing but Hyper Calvinist in nature. WinMan or another Arminian may claim that Hyper and Biblical Calvinism are one and the same but this is completely false!

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm

[/B]

I have had debates with some of these extremists on FB and they are impossible to persuade. God does love the non-elect, however his love for the elect is greater, but He does desire to save sinners from the fire. The doctrine of common grace applies to all mankind and not just the elect.



The Hyper Calvinist open air preacher loves to tell people that God hates them. The Hyper Calvinist is very judgmental and oftentimes will never pray, or pass out a tract, because the Hyper Calvinist does not desire all men to repent (1 Pet 3:9) but desires God to punish and burn people in the fire. The Hyper Calvinist has little if any love.

The difference between me and the Hyper Calvinist is that I preach God's love, but also his judgment and his wrath. Only the elect will respond to salvation (Acts 13:48, Romans 9:11, 15-16) but God desires repentance for all of mankind.

More websites
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/reformed-theology-vs-hyper-calvinism/
http://www.corkfpc.com/hypercalvinism.html --- Hyper Calvinism and evangelism
http://www.trinity-baptist-church.com/diff6.shtml


and, YOU, compared to them (I did not make this differentiation, YOU did), are the epitome of what God wants preachers to be. You hold the key to what the doctrine of grace really means, and you do not ever make the mistake that these "hyper-Calvinists" do, in any way, shape, or form.
when God poured out His grace, He made sure you had it all.
wow.
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
and, YOU, compared to them (I did not make this differentiation, YOU did), are the epitome of what God wants preachers to be. You hold the key to what the doctrine of grace really means, and you do not ever make the mistake that these "hyper-Calvinists" do, in any way, shape, or form.
when God poured out His grace, He made sure you had it all.
wow.

:thumbs::thumbs:

I have said it before.... hubris (particularly theological) often runs amok.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A testimony I just received on a social networking site from a Hyper-Calvinist.

You're right. I was knee deep into HC and now can't relate to them. They're arrogant and cliquey, caring only for their own congregations. Their views on Jews are heretical with nonsensical eschatology. Now I don't participate in church, but if I did would definitely go the dispensational route.

God can change the heart of the Hyper-Calvinist. It is not me to say if they are not saved as only God knows, but no doubt their theological is completely backwards.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
and, YOU, compared to them (I did not make this differentiation, YOU did), are the epitome of what God wants preachers to be. You hold the key to what the doctrine of grace really means, and you do not ever make the mistake that these "hyper-Calvinists" do, in any way, shape, or form.
when God poured out His grace, He made sure you had it all.
wow.

I am far from perfect in reality. Ray Comfort is a better preacher than me so listen to Him. But even he is not God as the example is Jesus that we will follow. Jesus showed LAW to the proud and Grace to the Humble so many times. The Rich Young Ruler and the Woman at the well were proud and He used the law with them. Zachias was humble and he got grace. He offered to repay back those whom he had wronged. Nicodemus as well was humble and he got grace.

Sometimes I may get judgmental but I strive to grow and show more grace. Perhaps a weakness is that, but then again I preached a open air sermon on God's Love recently.


The Love of God for the World

I. God is Love
1 Jn 4:8-11

A. Gods love differentiated from the worlds in that He loves you no matter what and it has no conditions. The world so often will only love someone for achievement or what they can or cannot do. The world loves pretty looking people, and those with lots of wealth and charisma. But ask someone that is poor, or who lacks charisma about the worlds love and they will tell you. Many of these people whom are without Christ, or whom are born again but not walking in the spirit feel insecure and no wonder considering how the world loves people.

B. Gods love is unlimited--Psa 139:7-12

C. The direction of Gods love
1. God loves His Son
2. God loves Israel
3. God loves the elect (Col 3:12)
4. God loves the world (Jn 3:16)

II. 10 Commandments

The 10 Commandments are what brings conviction to the sinner and how the sinner can see himself or herself as convicted before a holy and righteous God.

Exodus 20:3
“Thou shall have no other gods before me.”

We live in an age of antinomianism—an age that is against law. Western society is addicted to having few laws and maximum flexibility. We call people that choose to abide by the word of God and refrain from indulging in sinful lusts “legalists”.

We choose to abide by God’s laws because the first commandment assumes theism, and not just theism but monotheism. God is superior to the false gods of our day (in the forms of paganism, world religions, philosophies, self-fulfillment, and other forms of idolatry). The first commandment calls for ultimate allegiance to God. In our day there are many things to worship in place of God. While not all these things are necessarily evil, desiring them above God is. Jesus said, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:34). What we truly desire and treasure will consume all our time. Those who claim to have no treasure worship themselves. Oscar Wilde once said, “To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance.” Today many worship other things besides God, and Christianity is filled with believers who put other gods before the one true God. Anyone can fall prey if they are not in the Word daily and spending time with God. The best defense is a healthy fill of the Word of God.
The EIGHTH Commandment
Exodus 20:15
“Thou shalt not steal.”
Many people think that this commandment only refers to money and possessions, but stealing can cover so much more. Often when I witness to people I ask if they have ever stolen anything. Most of the time people tell me that they have not, but when I ask if they have ever stolen time from their employers by texting, Facebooking, emailing, or chatting when they should be working, most admit that they have stolen something.
The SEVENTH commandment
Exodus 20:14
“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
We live in a day where this commandment is being violated left and right. Sex is all around us. It’s in our TV, our music, our books, our newspapers, and all over the internet, and is hard to escape. Our society thinks it’s perfectly okay to sleep with another man’s wife, sleep with someone you are not married to, etc. The youth of our day are constantly having sex, and so few feel remorse about it. Marriage is under attack, and so many live with their spouse and avoid getting married. Our entire society is in danger because of our disobedience to the seventh commandment. Albert Mohler says:
Adultery begins a breakdown of order that threatens the entire society, first how can we trust each other if we cannot trust each other in our most intimate commitments? If we cannot maintain trust and fidelity within the small and inherently meaningful universe of marriage, how can we trust each other in commerce, in politics, in business, in culture, in life?[2]
We need to get back to purity and obeying the word of God. God blesses those who obey Him. Those who are pure going into marriage may be rare, but they will be blessed.

III. The Cross


A. He absorbed the wrath of God.

B. Jesus came to die to take away our condemnation.
As I mentioned before, Ezekiel 18 says a soul that sins, that soul shall die. In Revelations 22 it says, “Whosoever was not found in the Book of Life was cast in the lake of fire.” In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus tells the story of a rich man named Lazarus...a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus. The rich man, when he died, went to hell. And in hell, he asked Father Abraham to raise up from the dead so that his brothers may believe upon...Jesus and not go to this place of torment. But Abraham said that they had Moses and the prophets. If they did not believe the all- sufficient word of God, they would not repent even if someone rises from the dead. Many people are headed to hell. They are headed to the place where the fire does not stop, where the darkness never ends. Torment forever. None of us want that. And that’s why He came to die for you, so that you don’t have to go there.
C. The next reason why Jesus came to die, is to bring us to God.
Do you know what the word gospel means? Gospel means good news. The gospel is the good news at the cost of His son’s life, Jesus. God has done everything necessary to (concentrate?) us with what will make us eternally and ever increasingly happy, namely Christ. Christ is...(?)3:18, Christ suffered once for sin, the righteous from the unrighteous, so that He might bring us to God.
D. The next reason why Jesus came to die is to give us eternal life to all who believe upon him.
As I mentioned John 3:16 earlier, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”...that might be in Romans, but John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes upon Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” Jesus made it plain that rejecting eternal life He offered, and John 14:6 says, he says, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.” By that statement He is condemning all who came before Him and all who came after Him as liars. Yes, all religions that do not acknowledge Christ are wrong. Actually all religions are wrong besides the gospel message. Those who trust Christ will not, may not be put to shame. He (?) to redeem mankind. First John 2:2, it says that He is the atoning sacrifice, not only for our sins but for the sins of the whole world.
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A testimony I just received on a social networking site from a Hyper-Calvinist.



God can change the heart of the Hyper-Calvinist. It is not me to say if they are not saved as only God knows, but no doubt their theological is completely backwards.

Looks to me like yore talking to a very confused individual. Dont see the relevance of the post.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
God can change the heart of the Hyper-Calvinist. It is not me to say if they are not saved as only God knows, but no doubt their theological is completely backwards.

Some place great emphasis on theological reasoning. As Spurgeon pointed out, they see one truth and that is all they can see. Perhaps this is the only way that they can understand the gospel – I don’t know. But I do know this – whether we are Calvinists, Arminians, or hold a theological system not of Calvinistic trajectory, when we place that theological understanding as central to the gospel we become barriers to some and dogmatic enablers to others. Christ (not God’s Sovereignty, not human responsibility, not the extent of the atonement) is the center of the gospel, and it is upon that stage that the evangelist should direct attention.


I’m not saying that there is no value in the debate or nothing to be learned in discussing these issues. These discussions, however, belong to the church and not the world (they are appropriate here, but not on the street). The majority of Christians do not have an opinion on “Calvinism” and among those that do there is no consensus.
I was saved apart from a “Calvinistic” understanding of salvation. There was a time when I would have considered myself moderately Armininian. But you know what, my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was unaltered by my change in understanding. My understanding is “Calvinistic”- not because I was taught by Calvinists (although I learned much from both camps) but because I studied to defend and justify the beliefs that I held (and found some of my beliefs unjustifiable).



Anyone who shifts their theological understanding to the position that Christ should hold, IMHO, is a “hyper” something. You mentioned on another post that I am a “moderate Calvinist.” (I’m not sure why the “moderate,” but you are right that my views are “Calvinistic”). Although I hold “Calvinistic” views, I do not consider myself a Calvinist. For me, this would be placing my understanding of the Father’s plan and the nature of man in the place of Christ. The argument is important, and it does affect the way we see things, but it is secondary to the gospel of Christ. It is that gospel, not my theology, that forms my identity.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some place great emphasis on theological reasoning. As Spurgeon pointed out, they see one truth and that is all they can see. Perhaps this is the only way that they can understand the gospel – I don’t know. But I do know this – whether we are Calvinists, Arminians, or hold a theological system not of Calvinistic trajectory, when we place that theological understanding as central to the gospel we become barriers to some and dogmatic enablers to others. Christ (not God’s Sovereignty, not human responsibility, not the extent of the atonement) is the center of the gospel, and it is upon that stage that the evangelist should direct attention.


I’m not saying that there is no value in the debate or nothing to be learned in discussing these issues. These discussions, however, belong to the church and not the world (they are appropriate here, but not on the street). The majority of Christians do not have an opinion on “Calvinism” and among those that do there is no consensus.
I was saved apart from a “Calvinistic” understanding of salvation. There was a time when I would have considered myself moderately Armininian. But you know what, my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was unaltered by my change in understanding. My understanding is “Calvinistic”- not because I was taught by Calvinists (although I learned much from both camps) but because I studied to defend and justify the beliefs that I held (and found some of my beliefs unjustifiable).



Anyone who shifts their theological understanding to the position that Christ should hold, IMHO, is a “hyper” something. You mentioned on another post that I am a “moderate Calvinist.” (I’m not sure why the “moderate,” but you are right that my views are “Calvinistic”). Although I hold “Calvinistic” views, I do not consider myself a Calvinist. For me, this would be placing my understanding of the Father’s plan and the nature of man in the place of Christ. The argument is important, and it does affect the way we see things, but it is secondary to the gospel of Christ. It is that gospel, not my theology, that forms my identity.

I liked the way you presented that...just so you know, we "old schoolers" put our complete faith & trust in Jesus Christ.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some place great emphasis on theological reasoning. As Spurgeon pointed out, they see one truth and that is all they can see. Perhaps this is the only way that they can understand the gospel – I don’t know. But I do know this – whether we are Calvinists, Arminians, or hold a theological system not of Calvinistic trajectory, when we place that theological understanding as central to the gospel we become barriers to some and dogmatic enablers to others. Christ (not God’s Sovereignty, not human responsibility, not the extent of the atonement) is the center of the gospel, and it is upon that stage that the evangelist should direct attention.


I’m not saying that there is no value in the debate or nothing to be learned in discussing these issues. These discussions, however, belong to the church and not the world (they are appropriate here, but not on the street). The majority of Christians do not have an opinion on “Calvinism” and among those that do there is no consensus.
I was saved apart from a “Calvinistic” understanding of salvation. There was a time when I would have considered myself moderately Armininian. But you know what, my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was unaltered by my change in understanding. My understanding is “Calvinistic”- not because I was taught by Calvinists (although I learned much from both camps) but because I studied to defend and justify the beliefs that I held (and found some of my beliefs unjustifiable).



Anyone who shifts their theological understanding to the position that Christ should hold, IMHO, is a “hyper” something. You mentioned on another post that I am a “moderate Calvinist.” (I’m not sure why the “moderate,” but you are right that my views are “Calvinistic”). Although I hold “Calvinistic” views, I do not consider myself a Calvinist. For me, this would be placing my understanding of the Father’s plan and the nature of man in the place of Christ. The argument is important, and it does affect the way we see things, but it is secondary to the gospel of Christ. It is that gospel, not my theology, that forms my identity.


I agree with you 100% I always dodge people whom want to debate theology on the streets. I have dodged Hyper-Calvinist, Hyper-Dispensationalist, and a bunch of others. I only will debate if the person claims to be Christian, but has another gospel, such as the Boston Church of Christ whom believe that water baptism is required for salvation.
 

Winman

Active Member
evangelist589 said:
WinMan or another Arminian may claim that Hyper and Biblical Calvinism are one and the same but this is completely false!

First of all, there is no such thing as "Biblical Calvinism", Calvinism teaches the exact opposite of what scripture says over and over again, regeneration preceding faith being a glaring example for starters.

I actually have much respect for Hyper-Calvinists because they are brutally honest and consistent with the logical conclusions of Calvinism. In fact, early Hyper-Calvinists were often called "Consistent Calvinists". "Moderate" Calvinists are inconsistent and embarrassed by their own doctrine. I have said this for years here on BB.

The article at Sproul's site points this out;

Often, detractors define Reformed theology not according to what it actually teaches, but according to where they think its logic naturally leads. Even more tragically, some hyper-Calvinists have followed the same course.

This statement is misleading, because moderate Calvinists talk out of both sides of their mouth. They say God ordains everything that comes to pass, yet God does not ordain evil. This is double-talk and nothing but a contradiction.

The Hyper-Calvinist is brutally honest and comes right out and says God ordains evil.

“From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.

(John Calvin, The Eternal Predestination of God, 176).

Hyper-Calvinism is simply consistent Calvinism. I completely disagree with this system, but I have far more respect for it than sissy "moderate" Calvinism.
 
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