If we use your test: obedience for a test of salvation, then testing by the overall demeanor of your posts on this board you would fail the test of your own salvation. Wouldn't you agree?It makes no difference! For if, a person realizes they are NOT saved after all, then the remedy to that IS TBEY AND HAVE PROOF OF THAT BY FRUITS THAT COME FROM OBEYING.
Do you still not understand?
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We have to obey Jesus!
- Thread starter Moriah
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I could talk more about this with you, but it is too sacred to me.
How do you trust Jesus?
Do you obey Jesus?
You might as well have thought you were saved as a Catholic then. Why not think you were saved when you were a Catholic, if believing is the only thing that matters.
Salvation from what?
Have you not heard of those being thrown out? Have you not heard of those being cut off? Have you not heard of those being blotted out the book of life?
How about, have you ever heard of never even being known by Jesus?
I am persuaded. I obey Jesus, and he has revealed himself to me. He saved me; he gave me his Spirit and caused me to be born again. He opened the eyes of my heart. I am not the same person. His words are life, and they transform me by my obeying. I become more Christ like. I take pleasure in the fear of God, it moves me to obey, and it makes me keep my promises. After I have been changed by obeying His teaching, I know him better, and I have peace.
I just want others to know him better, others who are still searching. I would not ever tell someone they do not have to obey, for it is eating of Jesus when we obey, the bread from heaven.
A person wakes up in the morning; they are over-tired and don't "feel like" going to work. But they put their feelings aside and go to work anyway. They don't run their lives by their feelings. They can't. It would end up in disaster.
Spiritually, the same thing would happen. What happens if you wake up in the morning and you "don't feel like you are saved." Does that mean you are not saved?
When I was saved I put my faith and trust in him as my Savior and Lord. I was saved by faith and faith alone. There was no acts of obedience involved for faith is not a work.
Of course. I obey Jesus because I am saved, not in order to be saved, or in order to remain saved. I obey him out of love, and because the Spirit that dwells within me bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. That impels me to obey him. It is not out of duty; but love.
Your posts continue to reflect that you do not understand what faith is.
As I said, I was saved by faith and faith alone. That is not what the RCC teaches. They teach that one is saved by works, and so do you. So your teaching is very much like the RCC. Faith has an object. The object of my faith is in Christ and his atoning work on the cross, not in the RCC church. The object of your faith is in Christ plus works. That takes away from the finished work of Christ. You think you must do works in order to be saved, when Christ clearly said, concerning the work of salvation, "It is finished." Why don't you believe that? Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works--any kind of works.
The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life from Jesus Christ our Lord.
Saved from the penalty of sin--eternal separation from God.
1. My salvation can never be thrown out.
Jesus said: My sheep hear my voice and I know them. I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish.
Was Christ lying? You seem to think he was a liar.
2. I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
How can I be cut off if Jesus is keeping my salvation?
Is Paul lying here; is he too a liar?
3. My name has been written in the book of life since the foundation of the world and can never be blotted out.
--There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus--none!
Why don't you believe the promises of God? Are they not good enough for you?
Then they didn't transform you; you were only reformed not regenerated.
A person that was transformed and regenerated was regenerated by the Holy Spirit not by works.
Change doesn't come simply by obeying. If that were true the RCC's would have a good case.
Change comes from the Holy Spirit working through his word.
Jesus talked of eating only when he talked of the bread of life. The bread of life is likened to his Word. His Words are life. That is not obedience. That is belief in Christ through his word.
My beliefs are not threatened. Biblicist listed quite a large post of quotes made by you directly addressed to me, ungodly accusations. According to the test of salvation that you put forth, do you pass?
They put their feelings aside you say, did they put their feelings aside and now have none, or did they replace those bad feelings with something else?
In addition, are you speaking about physical feelings, as a person not feeling well, or are you speaking about feelings from the heart?
You are wrong. I would speak more to you about it, but it is sacred to me.
Again, I do not want to speak more to you about it, not at this time. You would only trample what I said.
Then why did you not think you were saved when you were a Catholic, when all you did was believe?
You speak confusion. You say you obey not to stay saved but out of love. You do not even know His love if you do not obey. You do not even know how to sincerely love if you do not obey. THAT IS WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS.
What the RCC teaches does not change the fact that you said it only matters to believe in Jesus dying for you. That is what the RCC teaches.
Nevertheless, if you believe in Jesus, and this believing AS YOU SAY “SAVES”, then according to you, you should have felt saved anyway…or should I say, according to you, you should have just known and believed you were saved.
Just because another religion comes along to convince a person they are saved, that is not being saved.
No, I do not tell people to do things that Jesus does not tell us to do.
Jesus said it was finished, we do not have to do external ceremonial washings to worship God, because Jesus’ blood makes us clean. We do not have to give sin offerings, because Jesus is the offering once and for all.
God nailed those things to the cross. God did not nail obeying Him to the cross. God did not nail doing right to the cross.
How do you eat Jesus? Tell us how you do that. Do you eat Jesus as the Catholics do, but instead of believing the bread is the real body…you just pretend? Is that how you eat Jesus?
That is for past sins, and then future sins you if and when you do them, as you work out your salvation with trembling and fear.
Jesus is speaking about obeying.
You say you believe Jesus. Jesus says to obey.
You can be cut off, that is what the Bible says.
If no one can be blotted out, then what you think blotted out means.
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
However, you teach that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus even if they live by the flesh!
You teach opposite Jesus Christ Lord and Savior. There is a remedy for that, repent with sorrow, and stop believing and teaching things that go against Jesus. Stop teaching others that they do not have to obey.
What you say is not even scriptural. As for regenerated, that is a misunderstood word by the reformed group, they use it in a false way, and often. Give the scripture for it, and I will discuss it more with you.
Give scripture, then we can discuss this more.
I have told you this before, that the RCC does not obey Jesus, they go against Jesus.
Ha ha ha Explain how you think that happens if we do not have to obey.
How do you think you eat the bread, how do you think you eat Jesus, how do you think you eat the Word, if you just believe and not obey?
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Unless a person is "impassive" (without emotions) all people have emotions. They can put their emotions aside, but not "erase" them. IOW you can control your anger. You don't have to express it on this board by calling people names; you can write "in grace" as the rules state. In the same way a parent can control his anger and frustration when a child disobeys. That doesn't mean the potential to become angry disappears.
All emotions come from the heart. Even Jesus said that.
Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
If a person runs their life by their feelings they will end up in disaster. That is fact. Take the example of Christ. When he cleansed the Temple, did he lose his temper? Absolutely not! He emotions were 100% under control. He knew what he was doing at all times. It was a righteous anger or indignation. It is said: "The zeal of my house hath eaten me up." Jesus did not lose his temper. He did things authoritatively, and methodically. He had the power to do what he did.
That is unlike a parent out of control who takes a child who has done wrong, and in his anger beats him, thinking that it is good discipline. Spankings may be ok, but only if done in love, and not when in anger.
If a person sleeps in because he is lazy and gives in to the feeling of ease and comfort he soon will not have a job and his life will end up disastrously.
It is an important subject. We don't run our lives by our feelings. Paul was stoned and left for dead. I wonder if he felt joyous and "saved." It didn't matter how he felt. He knew he was saved. He got up from under the stones, and encouraged the others to continue the journey. We live for Christ in spite of how we feel.
The object of my faith is now Christ, not the RCC. For you to even ask that question demonstrates to me that you have no knowledge of what faith is.
No, here is what the Word of God says:
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
--Paul served out of love. It was the love of Christ that constrained him to obey Christ. It was his faith in Christ. But again, you show a lack of understanding in "faith."
The RCC teaches faith plus works save. That is what you believe.
I did, when I believed in Christ alone, by faith alone. But that wasn't in the Catholic Church. And it is not what the RCC teaches.
That is true.
Even Jesus says salvation is by faith alone. I gave you Scriptures that demonstrate that. But you come along with a false gospel saying they must believe and obey to be saved. That is a denial of the work of Christ.
Jesus said: I came not to call the righteous to repentance but sinners.
He came to save the lost, those who had never even heard of the OT law and sacrificial system. Everything you said is entirely moot. He nailed our sins to the cross as well. That is why they are all forgiven. "It is finished." Salvation is finished. That is what is finished.
"Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good."
He is speaking of his word.
The word is speaking of sanctification in that verse. Christ has already paid the price for my salvation--all of it. To think any less would be blasphemous; it would be saying that the blood of Christ is insufficient to pay the penalty for all my sins, not just some of them.
You can learn from the experiences of others.
What a ridiculous statement to make.
Jesus said: "They shall never perish"
That is a promise; not a command to obey.
Never did Jesus say that one has to obey in order to be saved. Never!!
Where? Give proper context.
Quote the verse and give proper context.
Yes, but I am glad to see you admit that you have a sin nature, for that is what it refers to. When one walks after the flesh, the desires of their sin nature they will still have eternal life, though their fellowship with the Lord may be broken.
Show me where the Bible says that, and I will show you where you are taking Scripture out of context.
The word "regenerated" or regeneration is used only once and that is in Titus 3:5. A synonym for regeneration is the "new birth," or to be born from above. That is when regeneration happens. Jesus describes that in John 3. When a person is born again, he is given a new life in Christ. It is not just reformation; it is regeneration; a new life in Christ not a reformed life.
Then so do you, for you preach the same message of faith and works.
Obedience comes through the working of the Holy Spirit in a believer.
Again, there is no command in the Scripture for an unsaved person to obey in order to be saved.
Oh taste and see that the Lord is good. Read and meditate on his word, and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you through his word.
You did not answer my question. You did not answer anything.
Are you going to tell me I convinced you of the truth about emotions? YOU went against me when I spoke of emotions and the heart. You tried to ridicule me. Now you speak as if you are talking about something you have always known and believed.
Maybe you can study more about how feelings are in control while they rebuke others, then maybe you can understand when I rebuke you and others that speak falseness about the scriptures, and when you and others speak falsely about me.
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith
It is a very important subject. I tell you what, admit publically that you went against about our feelings and emotions being from the heart, and then I will talk more about it.
I believe different from you. Let us remember this that you bring up about Paul. Let us talk more deeply about it, after you admit publically that you fought against me for saying feelings and emotions are of the heart.
Just because you do not understand what I am patiently, trying to tell you does not mean I am not the one who does not understand what faith is.
I will explain it again to you. YOU say we all only have to believe in Jesus, and we will be saved. You learned about Jesus from Catholics. If we only have to believe, as you say, then you would have been saved.
You need to stop saying that I do not understand what faith is. Stop using that argument as your debate defense.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
Where do you get that that scripture teaches we do not have to obey?
Now, go up 3 scriptures, to 11. 11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men.
YOU said we do not have to obey. If we do not have to, then why does Paul speak of fearing God?
As I said before, you would not know the love of God if you did not obey. You could not love anyone sincerely if you did not purify yourself FIRST BY OBEYING THE WORD.
1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
I do not mind explaining to you repeatedly, because it can give someone else a chance to hear the truth.
The RCC does not teach things Jesus says. The RCC teaches things to do that God says not to.
With your reasoning then, there will be Catholics who are saved as long as they do not understand their religion?
Alternatively, with your reasoning, if a Catholic is saved by faith alone, after they learn of works from their religion, they then lose their salvation. I thought you did not believe in OSAS.
The only scripture that says faith alone is the scripture about dead faith.
We have to obey. Again, God did not nail obeying to the cross.
You did not answer. How do you eat Jesus.
I have tried often to explain this. Jesus died for our sins; he does not need our help. He chooses to save those who believe and obey. You teach we do not have to do anything but believe; you say we do not even have to obey him after being saved. That goes against Jesus.
Having your sins blotted out does not mean you get to keep sinning and not obey. Where does it say that anywhere in the scriptures?
We have to obey Jesus. That is what Jesus tells us. How can you call it ridiculous.
Jesus says repent or perish.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
DHK, YOU SAID WE DO NOT HAVE T
BEY AFTER WE ARE SAVED. WHY DO YOU TEACH PEOPLE THAT, WHEN JESUS SAYS HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY.John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Your question was:
They put their feelings aside you say, did they put their feelings aside and now have none, or did they replace those bad feelings with something else?
I gave you an adequate answer. One can put their feeling aside, control it, but not erase it. Only those people that are labeled "impassive" are void of emotions.
What are you talking about? Man is an emotional being. We all have emotions, just as Jesus said and demonstrated. But you can't run your life by your emotions. You are not saved by emotions.
Read over the post Biblicist made for you where he gathered together all the false accusations and name-calling you had made, and that was only against me and not against others. They were ungodly, made either in anger or frustration or both. Out of your emotions you posted, posted at times very angry things. They were not just rebukes. It is not a rebuke to tell a person "I have confirmation you are not saved." Those are the type of posts, when done often enough, get a person banned. There is no excuse for it.
That is not what childish name-calling is.
It doesn't matter where you think they originate from. I never denied they don't come from the heart. That is not relevant. Emotions are not required to be saved. Many emotions are sinful: anger, lust, hate, etc. Jesus says they come from the heart, and Paul says they are the works of the flesh. Both are true. You depend upon your emotions and your life will end in disaster.
It doesn't matter where you think they originate from. If you run your life by your feelings your life will end up in disaster. Our lives must be based on the Word of God and our faith in Christ, not in our unstable emotions. If a person is emotionally unstable and runs her life by her emotions what will happen to her? And what happens to those who are impassive and incapable of showing no emotion? Please answer those last two questions.
1. Your posts reveal that you don't know what Biblical faith is.
2. The Bible says:
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
--Do you believe the Bible?
3. What I learned of the Bible I did not learn in the RCC. That is a false allegation.
--Again, what you say about belief and the RCC demonstrates that you know nothing of Biblical faith.
Then don't post in ignorance. Do you believe that Obama is President? He is, isn't he? You believe. Therefore Obama saved you. This is your logic. You don't know what "faith" is. Admit it. Salvation is by faith and faith alone; but it is not faith in Obama, and it is not faith in the RCC. Can you understand that?
Are you without understanding. I said the love of Christ constrains us to obey. I obey out of love for Christ, not because obedience is required to keep my salvation. The Bible doesn't teach that.
Paul recognizes the judgment seat of Christ. That does not negate the love of Christ in verse 14.
That is a heretical statement, or at the very least directly contrary to the teaching of the Bible.
Here is what the Bible teaches on love:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Obedience results from love. You have it backwards, and that is wrong. In fact it is the teaching of a cult.
Obedience comes from love. Notice that the love comes from the heart.
Peter's statement did not end there. It continues in verse 23:
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Neither love nor obedience can be possible without the new birth.
They teach faith plus works, and so do you. It is a common heresy.
I never said that. Why are you lying and putting words in my mouth that I never said.
Here is another post that simply demonstrates that you are ignorant about "faith." Have you never learned what Biblical faith is?
First, Catholics think that they are saved by faith plus works (like you), but the truth is no one can be saved that. The Bible says that one is saved "by grace through faith and that not of works."
Second, I do believe in eternal security. What makes you think I don't.
That is a weak argument. It doesn't have to say "alone" to have that particular meaning. For example:
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--One is justified by faith alone. You cannot add anything to faith.
What blasphemy! You don't believe that the blood of Christ was sufficient enough to pay the penalty for our sins. This is unbelievable!
"O, taste and see that the Lord is good."
Spend time in his Word, and you will find out.
If you have to obey to be saved, then in essence you spit in the face of Jesus and tell him that He was not good enough to save you from your sins. In your obedience and works you had to help him suffer and shed his blood, because he couldn't do it by himself. So, tell me, what part did you play in dying on the cross?
My sins are blotted out. I obey out of love and gratefulness, not because I have to.
I quoted Scripture:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
You said: That means they have to obey.
I said: That's ridiculous.
A promise, "they shall never perish" is not a command to obey. It is a promise that they will never perish. It is not talking of obedience at all; it was a ridiculous statement to make.
So? non sequitor. What has that got to do with the promise of John 10:27,28, and the discussion pertaining to it?
Why do you lie. Here are the exact words of my post that you are answering to:John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
DHK, YOU SAID WE DO NOT HAVE T
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Never did Jesus say that one has to obey in order to be saved. Never!!
You have deliberately misrepresented what I have said.
Why?
Alive in Christ
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Well, it you are a legalist, I guess you have to try and do that.
But for those of us who understand living in the grace of God, we will be enjoying what is known as living in the goodness of "Resurrection life".
That is...allowing Christ to live HIS life through...us!
Praise God!
You teach things that I do not read in the Bible, things that go against Jesus. You have taught feelings and emotions are not in the heart. You teach faith alone. You teach repentance is not sorry for sins. You teach we do not have to obey after we are saved.
I am so glad that I learned this about the Baptist denomination.
You know that you went against me when I said feelings and emotions are in the heart.
Of course, you would say those things about me. It makes sense that you would.
Again, of course you see it that way. I expect it.
I am talking about what the Bible says, not about worldly feelings for the unsaved.
Again, this scripture is not nullifying repenting. No scripture speaks of by passing repenting. This scripture is explaining that we receive forgiveness, if we confess and believe we are forgiven.
It is not magic that happens to someone when they believe, that by magic ‘believe’ turns into a quadruple new meaning of: believe, and repent, without sorrow, is good. Try to think about that for a while, without relying on what a religion has been telling you.
Again, believing is the truth, we must believe in Jesus.
The scriptures that say believe and do not mention repent, they do not nullify the scriptures that say to believe and repent. Never, ever, is that possible.
The only time faith alone appears in the Bible is to tell us NOT by faith alone.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
The Bible does teach that if you do not obey, you do not love Jesus.
Do you not fear God? You teach that we do not have to obey. You say we will not loose eternal life, just fellowship will be affected, do you not think it is a big deal if you do not have the kingdom of heaven within you anymore?
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
You could not love anyone sincerely if you did not purify yourself FIRST BY OBEYING THE WORD.
1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
I do not mind explaining to you repeatedly, because it can give someone else a chance to hear the truth. The only time the Bible says faith alone, it is to tell us NOT to have faith alone.
Any scripture that speaks of no works, you can find talk of circumcision, and, or the law mentioned close by.
I am so glad that I learned this about the Baptist denomination.
You know that you went against me when I said feelings and emotions are in the heart.
Of course, you would say those things about me. It makes sense that you would.
Again, of course you see it that way. I expect it.
You did go against me and say feelings were not from the heart. Just as you will not admit you said Paul never went to Rome, neither do I think you will admit to saying feelings are not in our hearts.
I am talking about what the Bible says, not about worldly feelings for the unsaved.
We have access to God’s grace by faith, that does not mean we do not have to do anything else, it means we cannot do things without faith and still be saved.
Again, this scripture is not nullifying repenting. No scripture speaks of by passing repenting. This scripture is explaining that we receive forgiveness, if we confess and believe we are forgiven.
It is not magic that happens to someone when they believe, that by magic ‘believe’ turns into a quadruple new meaning of: believe, and repent, without sorrow, is good. Try to think about that for a while, without relying on what a religion has been telling you.
Again, believing is the truth, we must believe in Jesus.
The scriptures that say believe and do not mention repent, they do not nullify the scriptures that say to believe and repent. Never, ever, is that possible.
The only time faith alone appears in the Bible is to tell us NOT by faith alone.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
The only time faith alone appears in the Bible is to tell us it is dead faith.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
The Bible does teach that if you do not obey, you do not love Jesus.
Do you not fear God? You teach that we do not have to obey. You say we will not loose eternal life, just fellowship will be affected, do you not think it is a big deal if you do not have the kingdom of heaven within you anymore?
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
You could not love anyone sincerely if you did not purify yourself FIRST BY OBEYING THE WORD.
1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
I do not mind explaining to you repeatedly, because it can give someone else a chance to hear the truth. The only time the Bible says faith alone, it is to tell us NOT to have faith alone.
People misunderstand Paul to their destruction. Paul is speaking about the works of the Old Testament, like circumcision, and the law of works like sin offerings, and observance of special days.
Any scripture that speaks of no works, you can find talk of circumcision, and, or the law mentioned close by.
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Since you refer to it as something for a "legalist," I know now that you do not know what a "legalist" is.
That must mean you do not believe we have to obey.
How are you allowing Christ to live his life through you if you do not obey? lol
The only scripture that says faith alone is the scripture about dead faith.
God did not nail obeying to the cross.
The Bible says always have an answer. Why do you not explain how your eat Jesus? If you want to say reading the Bible is how you eat Jesus, then you will not like these next scriptures, unless it moves you to reconsider:
Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
Luke 8:21 He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."
John 13:17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
I love explaining the truth, even repeatedly.
Jesus did not need anyone’s help to pay for our sins. Jesus chooses who he wants to save. The Bible tells us what kind of people God chooses.
Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus says to repent or perish.
Jesus says, “Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
Do you not believe Jesus when he say “Whoever”?
No, he is stating here that a Christian has been freed from keeping the law of God as a duty/burden, instead, we can live in the power of the Holy Spirit and stay in the word and fellowship with God and the bethren, and the natural fruit of that WILL be obeyingHGod and keeping from sinning!
Your lame arguments you have learned well from the Catholics.
Have you never studied the English language or any other language, nor learned any grammar? One does not have to use the word "only" to convey the same idea.
Suppose: (These facts are not true of my family, they are for illustrative purposes only) Suppose:
I have 7 children, six of whom are sons.
What do you conclude:
Do I have one daughter? Or do I ONLY have one daughter? Is the word "only" necessary? No, it isn't, but that is the way that you arguing this case.
Suppose the daughter's name is "Jane."
Out of seven children which child would be named "Jane"?
Would the daughter be named "Jane", or Only the daughter be named "Jane"? You think that the word "Only" is required to put forth a truth, whereas it is not.
The same is true in Romans 5:1
Romans 5:1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
--The word "only" is implicit in the meaning. justified by "faith alone." It is not needed. It is there in the meaning of the verse. If anything were to be added it would have said so. But you argue like a cult, like the RCC does.
He nailed our sins to the cross. He died for the penalty of our sins. He shed his blood for the totality of the sins of mankind.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
--the most famous verse in all the Bible, and you don't believe it. Unbelievable!
He died for all our sins, everyone of them. Only after a person "believes on him" is he required to obey, for then is he a Christian. An unbeliever does not even know how to obey the Lord.
An unsaved person cannot understand the Word of God. The verses you quoted have nothing to do with a person's salvation. They must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ first. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Understanding the Word does not come before salvation. It comes after salvation.
If Jesus did not need anyone's help to pay for our sins, why do you keep inferring that he did. You say that faith plus works are needed to be saved. Therefore the work of Jesus was not enough. Your works were needed to help him out. You haven't addressed that problem yet.
Jesus chooses who he wants to be saved. That is what the Calvinist says. Have you changed your position?
Jesus chooses those who believe on him by faith; those who accept him as their personal savior. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
This verse is speaking of Christ. Do you know that?
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
--He learned obedience as he grew to maturity. That is what the word "perfect" means: "mature," "complete." He became the author of our salvation. Salvation is to them that believe in him. As he learned obedience he is our example. As he learned obedience we are to learn obedience (as believers), also. The word "unto" can also be translated "for". He is the example of obedience for us. Obedience does not gain salvation for us.
But what does that have to do with the promise given in John 10:27,28? You keep avoiding that verse, and like a J.W., jump to another verse. Deal with the Scripture given to you.
Again this is your answer to John 10:27,28. It has nothing to do with the verse. Deal with the text, the promise of eternal life, that they will never perish.
"Which ever believer" He is speaking to believers. He is speaking to his disciples. You have taken this verse way out of context.
Here are my words again. Why can't you give an adequate answer?
Why do you lie. Here are the exact words of my post that you are answering to:
Never did Jesus say that one has to obey in order to be saved. Never!!
You have deliberately misrepresented what I have said.
Why?
Alive in Christ
New Member
We live in the goodness of Christ living His life... through us.
It begins by resting in Christs sufficency. As we trust Him more and more, He begins to live HIS life..THROUGH us. Its a beautiful thing.
From the scriptures....
Its a wonderfull way to live.
For some reason, you do not like that I preach to obey.
With your statement, in the post that I quote right here, one can gather from what you said…that no Christian ever sins as soon as they believe in Jesus because they are living through Jesus, and
Jesus is doing the living for them and sinning is not a capability for us anymore.
Therefore, you believe in obeying Jesus. So then, stop going against me when I preach it.
What do you not get about the only time faith alone is mentioned to tell us what kind of faith not to have?
Your human wisdom falls far from the truth.
Since you like worldly scenarios, here is one for you.
Suppose I am having a party. The invitation reads that the guest must bring the invitation card before allowed in the party. On the card, it mentions to dress accordingly.
For months before the party, I send men out to deliver the cards, reminding people to make sure they have the invitation card when they come, and to dress accordingly.
A few days before the party, some of the men warn them again not to forget to have their invitation card, or they will not be allowed in the party.
Now, does that now mean they do not have to dress accordingly anymore?
Why or why not do they still have to dress accordingly?
In the Bible, we are told we must have faith and repent. Sometimes the Bible only speaks of the faith part. Sometimes the Bible only speaks of the repent part. The scriptures that speak only of the repent part, those scriptures do not nullify the scriptures that tell us to have faith. The scriptures that only speak of having faith, those scriptures do not nullify the repent scriptures.
That is illogical and unrealistic, to say that people cannot choose to obey anyone in anyway after being told how.
You are wrong. You do not make sense, for we do not even have to understand why God wants us to do this and that, but we do it anyway, THEN GOD REVEALS TO US WHY HE TOLD US TO DO WHAT HE SAYS. Have you not heard of the scripture to lean no on your own understanding? We do not even have to have understanding!
I easily prove you wrong from the scriptures. Even wisdom, the common sense wisdom proves you wrong, for when you teach you have to understand something before you do it. Do you understand how the TV works before you could turn it on, turn the channel, adjust the volume? NO. Most people have no idea how a TV, phone, computer, car, or anything works, but that does not mean you cannot read the manual and do what it says so that you can enjoy the item! Common sense wisdom proves you wrong on many accounts, even when you say a person cannot believe in God after having been taught! Common sense shows you that people believe in all sorts of things in the world after having been taught!
I have been explaining to you patiently for a long time that Jesus does not need our help to save us. What Jesus did was done a couple thousand years ago! How do you say I say Jesus needs my help with anything? I need Jesus’ help! God sent people to give the message about His Son. The good news the men preached tells us what people Jesus will save. I get the instructions, I desire to be saved, I do what the instructions say! How does that mean I had anything to do with what Jesus did? The Bible says God chooses us. YOU STILL NEVER ANSWERED ME IN HOW GOD CHOOSES US. The Bible says always have an answer. Give me your answer.
That is to them WH
BEY. So stop going against me for spurring others on to obey.You put in quotes something not in that scripture! Jesus does not say what you say "which ever believer"! Jesus says "whoever" believes. Your claim that Jesus was speaking to the Apostles only, that he will give the Holy Spirit to them for obeying, that does not mean no one else has to obey before they receive the Holy Spirit! NONSENSE.
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