We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty

[Aaron]

Is it possible to have an honest discussion without declaring a 'winner' and a 'loser?'

Both of those groups are dissenters. In a free 1st Amendment America their dissent should be encouraged. When laws are broken there should be repercussions, but the general dissent is part of what America is all about.

Dissent is not what America is all about.

But to the point, how have the dissenters been denied their First Amendment rights? Specifically.

 

[blackbird]

Dissent is not what America is all about.

But to the point, how have the dissenters been denied their First Amendment rights? Specifically.

To join in with Aaron on this-----------I once heard the late, great Dr. J. Vernon McGee preaching on individual liberities----we want liberty this and liberty that------well---there's nothing wrong with liberty----but we need to also understand that your liberty ends where my nose begins!!!

And friend, Capitalism has a big nose!!!! You squash Capitalism-------and the United States will free fall straight on through the hands of socialism into the devilish hands of Communism

Brother Aaron has asked Brother Roger a legitamite question to which needs to be answered

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

To join in with Aaron on this-----------I once heard the late, great Dr. J. Vernon McGee preaching on individual liberities----we want liberty this and liberty that------well---there's nothing wrong with liberty----but we need to also understand that your liberty ends where my nose begins!!!

And friend, Capitalism has a big nose!!!! You squash Capitalism-------and the United States will free fall straight on through the hands of socialism into the devilish hands of Communism

Brother Aaron has asked Brother Roger a legitamite question to which needs to be answered

I repeat, that is not the debate or the accusation, therefore I was choosing to ignore it. Since requested by a moderator to respond though I will.

The debate here is not whether or right are being restricted, but whether or not dissent should be squelched by a restriction of liberties.

The point is that dissent does not make one disloyal. Sometimes free dissent is the essence of loyalty. If I love my country and think she is erring dissent may be a vital tool. All Americans, from every end of the spectrum, should have that right and privilege without even the fear of recrimination as long as they stay within the bounds of the law.

If dissenters break the law, punish them. Until then let them speak and march and protest.

 

[blackbird]

If dissenters break the law, punish them. Until then let them speak and march and protest.

This was ---- more or less ----- the desires of Martin Luther King----but not all speaking was in fairness and not all marches and protests done "in peace"----------the news media made sure that this part of the "peaceful" gatherings were not seen by the television peeps!!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This was ---- more or less ----- the desires of Martin Luther King----but not all speaking was in fairness and not all marches and protests done "in peace"----------the news media made sure that this part of the "peaceful" gatherings were not seen by the television peeps!!

That doesn't negate the importance of dissent in a free nation.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I agree with the quote. In fact in the first line the phrase, "if we deny the right of the individual to be wrong, unpopular, eccentric or unorthodox" is the same idea that I was taught what being a Baptist is all about when dealing with others. That is no longer true with most Baptist folk ... sad to say. We have to meet people who they are, present Christ to them, but never violate their right to be different, to believe differently. We do not have to agree, but we to retain that right for ourselves we have to grant it to others.

I am sure there are folk on the board who can express this belief better than I.

I think you worded it perfectly, and this is where we see the brilliance of the US Constitution which, while not being Christian, incorporated some of the great truths of the word of God.

Most our Baptist heritage lies in dissent. I think that is why we have traditionally accepted dissent on the part of others.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Dissent must be both allowed and protected.

Free societies are societies in which the right of dissent is protected.
Natan Sharansky

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

...the news media made sure that this part of the "peaceful" gatherings were not seen by the television peeps!!

Whereas today the news media, in order to create a story, focus on every minor incident. All they care about is making a buck and they do that by creating an exciting story. They know that violence sells no matter which side of the spectrum it comes from.

 

[mandym]

Whereas today the news media, in order to create a story, focus on every minor incident. All they care about is making a buck and they do that by creating an exciting story. They know that violence sells no matter which side of the spectrum it comes from.

Sorry but this is just naive.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Sorry but this is just naive.

Nothing of substance here. Try being rational and responsive in a meaningful way.

 

[mandym]

Nothing of substance here. Try being rational and responsive in a meaningful way.

Try learning the definition of rational.

 

[HankD]

I think you worded it perfectly, and this is where we see the brilliance of the US Constitution which, while not being Christian, incorporated some of the great truths of the word of God.

Most our Baptist heritage lies in dissent. I think that is why we have traditionally accepted dissent on the part of others.

We are a nation conceived in the womb of dissent against the tyranny of the Crown.

HankD

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

We are a nation conceived in the womb of dissent against the tyranny of the Crown.

HankD

That too

 

[blackbird]

Brother Roger

Your demonstrations started out "peacefully" in 1932 Germany-----the Match was struck in that little beer joint in Prague---everything was peaceful and folks were just laughin' and laughin' at the demonstrators----Hitler went "peacefully" to jail---and in jail he did what you would call today as "blogging"----he wrote that peaceful book called Mein Kampf---everything was sooooooooooo peacefully done----by the book(Hitler's book, that is)-----not one hair of anyone's head was being harmed----at first----meanwhile---from prison---Hitler kept fanning the flames---telling everyone who crossed his path "Ya'll keep buying my book---if your neighbor doesn't have the money to buy one, buy one for him, etc---and you guys keep reading up on it---digest it---live off of it---and then . . .---well, you know the REST if the story, don't cha???????

If you look at the demonstrator's demands today----you will see they "mirror" the demands made by the nazis beginning in 1933----all we need is for some nutt to write a modern version of Mein Kampf and bingo----we're back in business !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[J.D.]

I'm with C4K on this one. Dissent is healthy for a society. As long as we understand the difference between dissent and subversion (sailing under false colors).

People have the right to be communists and believe in and publicly promote that rancid system, but they don't have the right swear an oath of allegence to the constitution and join the military or police under false pretences. Neither do they have to right to teach my children their offensive doctrines.

 

[blackbird]

People have the right to be communists and believe in and publicly promote that rancid system

Like J. Vernon McGee said-----their liberty ends where my nose begins!!!!!!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Brother Roger

Your demonstrations started out "peacefully" in 1932 Germany-----the Match was struck in that little beer joint in Prague---everything was peaceful and folks were just laughin' and laughin' at the demonstrators----Hitler went "peacefully" to jail---and in jail he did what you would call today as "blogging"----he wrote that peaceful book called Mein Kampf---everything was sooooooooooo peacefully done----by the book(Hitler's book, that is)-----not one hair of anyone's head was being harmed----at first----meanwhile---from prison---Hitler kept fanning the flames---telling everyone who crossed his path "Ya'll keep buying my book---if your neighbor doesn't have the money to buy one, buy one for him, etc---and you guys keep reading up on it---digest it---live off of it---and then . . .---well, you know the REST if the story, don't cha???????

If you look at the demonstrator's demands today----you will see they "mirror" the demands made by the nazis beginning in 1933----all we need is for some nutt to write a modern version of Mein Kampf and bingo----we're back in business !!!!!!!!!!!!!

So do we limit dissent and the right to peaceably assemble based on what 'might' happen? As long as folks stay within the bounds of the law we violate their rights if we try to stop them.

Should we also forbid the publication and distribution of the modern Mein Kampf because of what 'might happen?'

That doesn't sound like the kind of America I learned about in Civics class.

 

[kfinks]

So do we limit dissent and the right to peaceably assemble based on what 'might' happen? As long as folks stay within the bounds of the law we violate their rights if we try to stop them.

Should we also forbid the publication and distribution of the modern Mein Kampf because of what 'might happen?'

That doesn't sound like the kind of America I learned about in Civics class.

Quickly approaching 1984...Orwell's timing might have been a wrong, but the concepts seem to be nearing reality.

 

[blackbird]

So do we limit dissent and the right to peaceably assemble based on what 'might' happen? As long as folks stay within the bounds of the law we violate their rights if we try to stop them.

Should we also forbid the publication and distribution of the modern Mein Kampf because of what 'might happen?'

That doesn't sound like the kind of America I learned about in Civics class.

Unfortunately---we can't limit dissent until the dissent spills over into our rights as common citizens-----when they begin to invade my rights----well---things could start gettin' nasty!!!!!

I find it interesting that Mein Kampf is banned in the very nation that was led to war by it---but one can probably still get their hands on a copy of it in the states here if they tried hard enough!!!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Unfortunately---we can't limit dissent until the dissent spills over into our rights as common citizens

Unfortunately?? Is the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances an unfortunate part of our Constitution?