Wearing ties to church?

I read this three times before I realized that's your signature tim! I was thinking, "Man, what's he got against bolos?" :laugh:

I don't wear a tie, but I almost always wear a long-sleeved button-down shirt with slacks, nice shoes, and a vest. Although, the sleeves on my shirt are always rolled up. Sorry if that bothers some.

 

I've been snooping here a while and really didn't expect to see things like I am offended because Sis so and so doesn't dress Modestly. You can't come to our Church without a tie. I noticed there is even several poll's on this subject, all pretty much the same question. Are these the true testimonies of Christians? I view this board as a cross section of the Church.

I still ask the question, who defines modestly? Should I dress to your definition of modestly or should I dress to my definition of modestly? Should the pastor define modestly or do we need another committee (like we don't have enough of those)? Do we have to spell out modestly in the constitution?

I think TheWinDork hit the nail on the head, "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." GOD has always used the one who didn't "look the part" in his service.

I keep making reference to my life in the desert. I'll share one of the lessons I've learned, self accountability. It's not about my brother or my sister, it's about me. I need to work out my own salvation and my own right relationship with GOD. If I can help somebody along the way then so be it, I'm there for you, not because of who I am but because HE who is in me. Many in the Church will go to hell trying to save their brother or sister and the LORD will say but I know you not. No great commission or fancy dress can substitute the this step in the walk with Christ.

Instead, we should be on our knees demanding the LORD search my heart, try and fix me. Asking, what is wrong with me that I can go to Church and notice to the point it bothers me that my brother is not in a tie? Why am I not praising your name for the fact that he is there and there every Sunday? Is he less of a warrior in your army because he has no neck tie? What is wrong with me, that while praising your holy name, I lust after a woman then blame her for not dressing to my standard of modestly? WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME THAT I AM SITTING IN YOUR PLACE OF WORSHIP CONSUMED WITH HOW OTHERS DRESS.

I admit, I have been blinded in some of these same areas for I too have particulars I like to see at Church. Not dress, but I see we all have our preferences. This board has really shined the light on what really matters and I thank each and every one of you...

That Jesus make us grow in his will and ways is my prayer.

 

True, God looks on the heart. Unfortunately, we do not have that ability, we look on the outside.

I do not believe any here, even some of the strictest on dress code, sit at church wondering what others wear.

And the ladies are not blamed for a man lusting, though they can help or hinder their brother in the Lord.

Now, I am going to use a man for this example because I know some women would completely gloss over the meaning and just get offended.

So, lets say some guy comes into church with a shirt a couple of times smaller than needed and dresses in a manner specifically designed to show off his muscles and get the ladies attention. Now, ultimately if some woman lusts after him then she is answerable for that sin. But in the same way that a drug dealer can be held accountable for his part in destroying a drug addict so too can believers help or hinder one another...

I know that is bordering on off topic, but the modesty issue was raised.

It just gets me when people say, "It is all about the heart" and thus excuse all standards. We cannot see the heart.

 

And it gets me when others make it to be about the exterior. The exterior matters not if the heart is not right with God.

 

So it would be fine for you if some guy turned up to preach in your pulpit in a clown outfit, makeup, big green hair, 24 inch shoes and a prank water pistol flower on his lapel?

I am not making it all about the exterior, but I think we can go to far in the other direction.

Even if his heart is right?

 

You care to expound on this?

@mnw="We cannot see the heart."

Is it for us to see? I believe Jesus spent much time on the subjenct of looking at fault in your brother while you yourself have faults. We are neither the judge or jury so what does it matter what we think? There is a righteous who knows the inner most parts of our being. He is the one who will judge.

 

For our youth day a young minister came as one of the characters from Lion King. He took his text from Kings and began by singing the song, in the jungle etc... Turned out to be as really great message and was well received by the Church. My daughter still quotes him to this day, it was two or three years ago.

You example must hae been how Goliath felt when he saw David and a sling shot?

 

What if the same guy turned up to do a loved ones funeral dressed the same way?

 

No, we are not to judge critically nor are the jury and executioner. But tell me this, do you pray for a brother or sister in Christ when you see they are struggling? Well, did you not have to make a judgment in order to determine their need and then an action to take?

Do you pray for sinners to come to Christ? Well, do you not make some kind of judgment as to a person's need and your appropriate action?

I am not all about exterior. I simply believe in modesty and appropriateness. That may be a tie in certain churches, it may not be in others. But how complicated is it to be approproiate to the situation and sensitive to the "preferences of others."

 

I sweat like a pig, so I always wear a short-sleeved shirt, especially on cold days when the heat is turned up for the elderly in church. I especially sweat when I'm standing up front speaking. So, if I wore a coat and tie and long sleeved shirt, I would be absolutely disgusting by the time it's over. (The man who requested I wear a jacket once requested that I not do that again.)

Now, as for bolos, here's a short link: Bolo Tie

 

Goodness talk about going to extremes.

What I am saying is that the heart is more important than the exterior dress. I do not think that is hard to understand.

I would much rather have a man preach from my pulpit in jeans and a tshirt with a heart that is on fire for God over a man in a three piece suit who has a heart cold as stone and living away from the Lord.

One of the godliest men I have had the priviledge of pastoring comes to church just about every week in a nice pair of jeans and a tshirt. Does it matter to me? Not one bit.

 

Sorry I had a misspelling there, it should have read the exterior matters not if the heart is not right with God. I edited my post to correct the mistake.

 

So we're looking down on people who don't wear ties to church. What would Jesus say here guys?

Can anyone here say legalism????

Can anyone here say whited sepulchre????

Maybe those who insist on suits and ties should blow a horn when they come to church so that they can be seen of men!!

 

The Bible says-

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Having said that, wouldn't some of you agree the exterior is somewhat a reflection of the heart?

 

What verse says that? Just curious.

 

Yes SBC, the heart matters, but so does the exterior to a degree. If the exterior matters not a single iota then why was my clown an extreme? Are you against clowns? Can't clowns be spiritual? After all, if their heart is right then it matters not what they wear?

Let me stress, I agree, the heart matters first of all. But we cannot simply say the exterior does not matter at all.

There is nothing wrong with getting the heart and the appearence right.

Gen 35:2-3 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: 3 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went.

Jacob said get the idols out (get your heart right) and change your garments (dress appropriately) and let's go see God.

I know we are not under the law, but I think there is a principle.

 

"What verse says that? Just curious."

Gee wiz, I just read my last post over again, and guess what, I never said there was a verse for that. I asked a simple question.

I totally agree that someone could dress in a suit and tie and be absolutely filthy on the inside. (Happens all the time)

I believe that it clearly says in the bible not to judge someone as good by what you see on the outside. It does not, however, tell us we can't judge someone as not quite right by what we see on the outside.

 

I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

I keep hearing people say, "yes the heart is what matters, but..."

I fear that what comes after "but" is where we drift into our own standards rather than God's.

But as good Baptists, we are all welcome to our opinion.

 

"Yes SBC, the heart matters, but so does the exterior to a degree." - mnw

to a degree yes. if i got clothes on that cover me - clothes that do not expose so much - then that degree has been met.

but to say that wearing a tie in comparison to wearing a hoody and what is more acceptable in church?

well then... i guess if you agree with the side that believes wearing suits and ties to church only - i guess im out of your ring.

i wear what i wear because i wear what i wear not to cause offense - because it doesn't - hasn't - and will not. i hope. - if it does - you got a major problem.

SBC put it in very simple terms - "I would much rather have a man preach from my pulpit in jeans and a tshirt with a heart that is on fire for God over a man in a three piece suit who has a heart cold as stone and living away from the Lord."

he is in no way saying there that clothing does not matter. is he. i dont think he would agree to a preacher goin up there - who is proffessingly on fire for God - and wearing a mini skirt.

there is a standard - cover yourself. whether it be jeans or slacks... who cares? whether it be a tie or hoody... who cares? wether it be long sleeve or short sleeve... who cares?

if someone gets aroused because the other guys ancles are showing... well that guy should lock himself up in a closet... he ain't gon' survive...

make sense?

 

I don't believe for one minute it makes any difference whether you wear a tie to church or not. A tie tells me nothing about your heart, just as no tie tells me nothing about your heart.

If someone wears a Marylon Manson shirt to church, I think it would be safe to say something is not quite right.

If someone in church is showing as much leg as possible, along with their belly button and cleavage, I would think something is not quite right.

Once I was waiting in the hall for my son to come out of his Sunday school class. Just before he came out a twelve year old girl came out wearing a tank top and some tight little shorts that said "Hottie" across her bottom. Did I say anything about it? Nope. But I think it is safe to say something was not quite right. (I prayed for her parents)

There seems to be a spirit of rebellion in some of these cases. I agree it's what is in the heart that matters, and I also agree that sometimes people "wear their hearts on their sleeves", so to speak.