Weigh Down Workshop cult alert

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Theopolitan:

And as it is evident that J cannot rise above the profane use of ad hominem attacks, he would make a fine minister in a SBC "church."

My response:

That's funny...I always thought of myself as having more leanings toward the CBF. But, if that is what you think of me, then I am also fine with that. Most local SBC churches would probably be more moderately conservative anyway (that I have seen) and would definitely fit my personality. Theo, do you have some personal issues you need to deal with? I sense a lot of anger in your postings. Is there a way that we can help you feel better about anything? If you want to talk, my e-mail is open.

Joseph

 

[Theopolitan]

Alright, Dr. Griffin. The Scriptures teach that a man and a wife become one flesh. That's the Word 'o God! It says it plainly, straightforward. One flesh. In disputable, indubitable, written in stone never to be erased. And you'd better believe it, by golly, or you're going to Hell! Yet no one is presposterous enough to confuse Mr. Jones with Mrs. Jones (unless one of them has a severe hormone dysfunction )

Taking that the same way you take the Scriptural teaching on the Trinity I would have to believe that Mr. Jones conjugated the nuptials with himself, (yuck

)and that he just sometimes appears to me as Mrs. Jones.

Admittedly, the oneness of the Trinity is higher than the oneness of a man and wife, yet there are those characteristics of the Father that distinguish Him from the Son and the Holy Spirit, and these characteristics are not communicable. In other words, those properties that make the Father the Father are not present in the Son. And those properties in the Son that make Him the Son (he is described as "begotten") are not present in the Father. They are distinguishable One from the Other, though they are the One God.

I think if you talked with Gwen, you would find she agrees completely with those things. She is simply saying that Jesus and the Father are not the same person, just as if I would say Mrs. Griffin and Mr. Griffin are not the same person (though they are one flesh).

If Gwen Shamblin has sinned, it may be in that she spake unadvisedly about her personal ideas about the Trinity (which were formed from her walk of obedience to her Lord) to scorners (who know nothing of the Trinity except what they were told by some other man.

[ June 26, 2001: Message edited by: Theopolitan ]

 

[Theopolitan]

Lest you accuse my views on the Trinity as "unorthodox," I think you will find them attested to in the writings of the church fathers, and in Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

"In Shamblin's view, the church as a whole has become so corrupted over the centuries that it is teaching, in her words, 'a different good news, a different Jesus, a different spirit' from the one the Apostle Paul preached and the one the early church embraced (Gwen Shamblin, Remnant Fellowship introductory video, 2000). She claims that agents of Satan have come into the church 'secretly diguised as an angel of light because Satan himself masquarades around as an angel of light...what they've done is change the good news of Jesus Christ...what we've grown up in I feel like is the counterfeit church' (Ibid.)."

"According to Shamblin, it has been her goal all along to evangelize the apostate churches and bring in her version of the Gospel. Since the churches were unlikely to allow her to come right in and openly expose them as 'counterfeits,' she was forced to use stealth. She says: 'For the last twenty years I've had concerns about the state of the church and my first response was Weigh Down which was a message that sent lordship, total lordship, into the back door really of churches' (Ibid). This leads to the false doctrine of justification by works. She further goes on to say that anyone who disputes her interpretation is suffering from an alleged "works phobia" that has reached a zenith in our time (Remnant Basics, Audio Tape 1).

 

[Theopolitan]

By JBotwinick at Exposing False Teachers, Prophets and Antichrists
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't like his Holier than thou, nobody is to be trusted attitude. It looks to me that he is looking for bad things to say about anyone but himself. I remember a preacher who was just as judgmental back in the 80s...his name was Jimmy Swaggart...and we all know what happened there. Tell me...does he ever say anything positive about anyone...or does he just look for reason to throw stone s at fellow Christians? This website reminds me of the judgmental paranoia that is often found in doomsday cults. When it comes down to it...they are the only ones to be trusted and then the ego of the dictator leads down the slippery slope and everyone ends up worst than when they started.
The guy needs to get a life...or perhaps the reason he points the judgmental finger of blame at everyone else is because he is guilty of sin himself and he is trying to divert our attention away from himself. I know at least two preachers who were like that...Jimmy Swaggart and Mark Coppenger. Both had sin in their lives and both spent plenty of time throwing stones at others. Maybe somebody should do an investigation of this person...of course...judging from the restrictions in his website...he would probably never agree to being held accountable by anyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Enjoy your ample helping of crow. BTW, if you find your helpings too large, Gwen Shamblin can show you how God can set you free from the bonds of your apetite.

 

[Theopolitan]

J,

Did you have permission to post the copyrighted material from SBC Life?

You never know who might be watching. Hate for you to damage your "witness."

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Theopolitan:
J,

Did you have permission to post the copyrighted material from SBC Life?

You never know who might be watching. Hate for you to damage your "witness."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually,

Yes I did. It was implied within the page.

Back to Top
Printer Friendly Version
Email this article to a friend

This is part of the public domain and is specifically stated that they wish for the material to be shared with others. If I see something that says I don't want my stuff shared without permission, I respect that.

I kinda think you didn't want people to see this, did you?

Oh well. too bad!!!!

Joseph

 

[Theopolitan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JBotwinick:


Actually,

Yes I did. It was implied within the page.

Back to Top
Printer Friendly Version
Email this article to a friend

This is part of the public domain and is specifically stated that they wish for the material to be shared with others. If I see something that says I don't want my stuff shared without permission, I respect that.

I kinda think you didn't want people to see this, did you?

Oh well. too bad!!!!

Joseph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. I'm delighted you took the bait.

You owe Dajuid an apology, because his use fell under section 107 of Title 17 of the United States Code, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use. It doesn't matter what anyone says on their page, it can't void the limitations on their exclusive rights.

So if I may offer a variation of your own advice posted in Contemporary Cristian Music <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Would you please make sure you know what you are talking about in the future before you say things about [copyright laws] in front of people who are educated in those things?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More crow tonight? Are you sure you won't give Gwen a call?

[ June 26, 2001: Message edited by: Theopolitan ]

 

[John Wells]

This thread is getting completely unChristlike! Theo, you won't gain any persuasion in this arena with the likes of the WDW teachings. J, don't let him cause you to stumble.

The Bible teaches that there is only one God or, better, that God is one.
O.T. - "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." (Deut. 6:4)
N.T. - "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder."
(James 2:19)

one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.

The New Testament also teaches that Jesus was divine.
"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,"
(Phil. 2:6)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. (John 1:1 through John 1:2)

Did all of God become incarnate in Jesus?
"So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me." (John 11:41 through John 11:42)
Now either Jesus/God is a babbling lunatic, talking to himself, or one essence of God is communing with another.

"Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." (John 5:17) This introduces two distinct "forces."

"There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called-one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. (Eph. 4:4-7)

The doctrine of the Trinity is only more or less a crude human attempt to come to terms with a divine reality that is beyond us. The doctrine points to a transcendent God who could yet simultaneously become a human being and then after the resurrection also indwell other human beings (that is, the Holy Spirit). He is a God great enough to rule the universe, caring enough to live a fully human life and intimate enough to live in each believer. This is the reality that the doctrine points to. This is the truth that John teaches. Try as we like, we will never understand this divine depth, yet we can still enjoy the reality of God being with us that the doctrine points to.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mat 28:19)

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Theo,

I am sorry the truth has offended you and caused you to stumble by attacking a Christian. I will not back down from the truth...but, neither will I continue this conversation with you and allow it to cause me to stumble. If you have a question about the facts of the issue of the false teachings of Gwen Shamblin, then ask it and I will try my best to answer it as accurately as possible. Otherwise, you can keep your meanness to yourself (or dom't if you don't want to). I will not repay evil for evil or continue in this evil dialogue with you.

Brother Wells,

Thank you for reminding me of the dangers of stumbing while under the attack of Satan. You have helped me change my attitude and decide not to carry on with this personal attack.

Joseph

[ June 26, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]

 

[Theopolitan]

Wells,

J is a grown man (I think). If he can't take the heat then he needs to get out of the kitchen. You see how he yelped when he was held accountable by his own words.

Not that I sat here and looked through his posts to find things. I've been browsing the BB for many days seeing how things are going and what kind of discussions are going on. Many of J's posts really stuck out because of the overt pride and arrogance permeating what amounts to little more than personal jabs or outright attacks.

Shamblin's ideas about the Trinity are elementary, but the real issue that folks like Hanegraaf and the SBC have with the Weigh Down Workshop is that she has taught thousands of grateful people, mostly women, how to dethrone their bellies, and to truly be free from the desire to overeat. She has shined the light of Scripture on the the adulterous trysts that much of "mainstream" evangelicals indulge with man's ideas in the area of dieting.

The articles claiming that she has been less than honest in her objectives (her quotes are wrenched from their contexts) overlook a critical point, that she is honest and straightforward in her answers about what she thinks about the Trinity, when history has shown that those who have attempted to mislead on this subject have done so while affirming publicly that they believe otherwise.

 

[John Wells]

Theo,

Then Ms. Shamblin should stick to being a dietician if she cannot correctly discern the Word of God!

I'll be brief concerning her "Jesus is a separate God (diety) from God the Father" theory. If you have an ounce of discernment in you, this should be all that is necessary on this subject.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:27-28 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

God says "Thou shalt have no other Gods" and that "I alone am God." With this in mind, if Jesus were not God incarnate, then He should have rebuked Thomas. Not rebuking Thomas when He should have would mean Jesus was not perfect and therefore not the perfect sacrifice, and we are all still dead in our sins! In short Ms. Shamblin's theory destroys the atoning sacrifice that all believers have placed their faith in for salvation. Thanks and glory be to God, she is wrong !

 

[donnA]

Theopolitan

Just to let you know in looing more into Gwen Shamblin, I have found bible verses ehe has taken out of context, twisted their meaning to fit her program.
Weither purposely or just from a misunderstanding of scripture, her teaching from the bible are wrong.
You sound like someone who has done the WDW,or knows people who have.
Well I have done it, and am currently finding a lot wrong with her, I am rewatching her videos to see what I missed the first time.
My opinion is and was, and always will be, let a false teacher be so named. And her scriputure twisting is all I need.

 

[Gina B]

Theo, I have checked it out. I was tolerant until the end, where it was said that we should bow to all three separately, and pretty much said all three, the Father, Son, and Spirit are all gods, but the Father is the highest one.
Maybe Joseph yelped because you stomped on him with a huge mass of ungodly, unthought out, understudied logic. Please go back and read the facts. I am grateful to him for pointing it out, and for the thousands and more that think she is the greatest thing since diet candy I've got to thank him.
Gina

 

[Baptist Mom]

Hello,

I just joined the other day and I did not realize there was already a topic on this subject. It does look very heated here though!

I have done alot of praying about the WDW program. I am no longer going to support it. I am going to use the principles of losing weight throught the boundaries of hunger and polite fullness and use the Bible to help me along the way. I am not going to interpret Scripture like Gwen does to twist it to fit my own needs.

I have lost alot of weight through this program and have kept it off. But Biblically I just can not stand behind the program. I am going to use the Word of God to support me and draw closer to the Lord by reading and meditating more.

But I do not stand behind this program because the black cloud that surrounds it can be very damaging.

But I want to throw something out at you all
do you think the principles she uses in this program to be wrong in how to lose weight????
I think they are correct and I want to use them with the Bible for the way it was intended to be interpreted not for my own needs but for the real way it was written.

What do you think of this???

I am not going to point anyone to the WDW but to the Word of God to lose weight.

Look forward to hearing from you all.
Cyndi

 

[Gina B]

The principal itself is correct. G-d made our bodies to function a certain way , and we need to follow that natural pattern.
Gina

 

[Baptist Mom]

Thank You Gina.

That is what I was looking for.

The Lord has really convicted me on this issue. I am going to use their principles but in no way be involved in their program.

I also am going to use the Bible to encourage my daily walk with the Lord. As I draw closer to Him He will be first and the food will no longer have this hold on me.

My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and I am going to treat it as such not constantly pushing food down it to cover up issues and responsibilities in my live but to deal with those issues by the strength in the Lord and by being led and taught by the Holy Spirit as He guides me.

Thank you all for your support.

Cyndi

 

[Theopolitan]

Ladies (and Wells),

I agree that Gwen should be instructed about the Trinity. I will also agree that her popularity has gone somewhat to her head. For the record, I do not think she is the greatest thing since diet candy. (Diet candy? Yuck!!

) But she is not the demon that Hanegraaf and others make of her. (BTW, Wells, I used St. Thomas' quote in a discussion with an JW.)

Oswald Chambers said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If we love a human being and do not love God, we demand of him every perfection and every rectitude, and when we do not get it we become cruel and vindictive; we are demanding of a human being that which he or she cannot give.
See his devotion for July 30 in My Utmost for His Highest<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What has happened is that thousands of women committed themselves to Gwen Shamblin much in the same way the sects in Corinth committed themselves to Paul or to Apollos or to Peter. Then everything she did was delightful and fine. But now she has proven a fallible human being, subject to the pitfalls that accompany popularity and which few have avoided. Now everything she does is mean and dastardly.

It is plain that all this hubbaloo over her ideas is the vomitus of Pharisaic jealousy. Her instruction concerning food and the true cause overeating have been phenomenally successful, even more so than the dismal, man-centered First Choice program started by the Southern Baptists. She is in error in one point, and it was something jealous wolves could sink their teeth into. And many are simply catching the wave like the mob who shouted Jesus' praises at His triumphal entry then at the urging of the Scribes and Pharisees demanded His crucifixion.

JBotwinick knows nothing except what another man has told him. Gwen knows that the Son is subject to the Father because it was revealed to her and she submitted to that, even at the cost of being submissive to her *gasp* husband ! She see's how a "meek and quiet spirit" is in the sight of God a great price.

She has not apprehended the higher truth that the Father and the Son are one being yet distinct persons, and honestly, who posting here has?

 

[John Wells]

Theo,

Please do not put words in my mouth. If you can point to any indication of jealousy in my post, please expose it for me. She can make a gazillion dollars and help people to lose a gazillion pounds and that's fine by me. I matter-of-factly stated that if she does not have the gift of biblical discernment (which any serious student of the Bible can clearly see she doesn't), she should just stick to quoting scripture; keep it simple, and not try to be some enlightened preacher that she isn't.

As others have stated in this thread, she is misleading many who assume that since she knows what she's talking about regarding weight loss, she must also know what she's talking about regarding spiritual matters. And the latter has pretty much been laid to rest in this forum. God bless.

 

[Baptist Mom]

Hello to all,

I just want to make a comment about this program. I had used it for two years before Gwen had come out with her own personal beliefs. No one ever questioned the program or her Biblical basis for the program.

All this came up when she came out and told people of her personal beliefs.

My question is have any of you are speaking so strongly against the program really sat down and watched the twelve videos????

My deepest concern for this program is that Gwen came out with her beliefs. There are some things in the videos I don't believe in but I am a mature Christian and for myself I can use what I agree with and put the rest aside but I would not recommend it to anyone else in fear of them stumbling. To me it could be very dangerous to be involved in a program like this because I would never want to lead anyone astray. I could never do this program on a public basis in a class or even online and I would never give any money to the program. But you know I lost alot of weight on the program and drew so close to the Lord. I don't want to have anything to do with the program but on a private basis in my home I would like to continue it. You see this theory of eating when you are hungry and stopping when you are full makes so much sense to me. Why would the Lord allow us to have hunger pains and growls if there was not a purpose in it? To me this seems like this is the way the Lord made our bodies to function.

Some have said that she twist Scriptures just for the purpose of weight control. But how many of us had used the Scriptures for applications for other areas in our lives. I think it is ok to use the Bible for overcoming things in our lives that have a hold upon us. But we need to be very careful about using these applications as doctrine. I think we need to be careful about judging others about using Scripture to make application for certain areas in our lives. The Word of God is the answer for all problems including weight.

My question is it really wrong to use a program like this that I believe the principles in losing the weight are Biblical in listening to your body for the way the Lord created you? The area we need to be cautious about is how the Scripture is applied that we don't use the application as doctrine.

I could never reccomend this program to anyone but I know it has really worked for me and I have drawn closer to the Lord by following it. But I can point them directly to the Bible.

I had seriously thought about not using anything in the program at all but I am not sure. Last time I did this I gained 35 pounds in 5 months.

So do you think is wrong to use this program in my own home alone. I know what her beliefs are but they really are not in the program and nobody would even know about them if she did not tell people.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you.
Cyndi

[ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Baptist Mom ]