Were souls created before the body is formed?

[loDebar]

I recently challenged one to provide verses that shows our eternal souls were created. They refused and challenged we show souls were created before our bodies were formed. I will do both.

Since our human bodies are not created but formed and continues today, we have to consider that in Gen 2;2 says
Gen 2:2
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
"the rested" is ceased to work as shabath

so if eternal souls are also being created as the body it violates the verse.

Jesus said:

Jhn 3:5¶
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man (tis, one) be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

He says . one must be born of the water, then born of the Spirit, repeated in v6, flesh. them spirit
One must be a human to share in the death of Jesus. Being Human is part of the method God choose to be saved

the promise, gods is elohyim, (not God who is Elohyim Elohyim)
Psa 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


Jhn 10:34¶
Jesus answered them, 'Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
Jhn 10:35

if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,)

so, God said creating was stopped, so more souls were not to be created, so they were already created before the body were formed.

Jesus says ye are gods.

God said ye will die like men

Jesus said one must be human to be saved.

Jesus said
Jhn 5:22
for neither doth the Father judge any one, but all the judgment He hath given to the Son,

Jhn 8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Jhn 3:18¶
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Sp if I was not condemned as a man, I had to be condemned as a eternal being before

Follow the logic, check the verses,

 

[SovereignGrace]

A third view, but one that lacks biblical support, is the concept that God created all human souls at the same time, and “attaches” a soul to a human being at the moment of conception. This view holds that there is sort of a “warehouse of souls” in heaven where God stores souls that await a human body to be attached to. Again, this view has no biblical support, and is usually held by those of a “new age” or reincarnation mindset.

Whether the Traducianist view or the Creationist view is correct, both agree that the soul does not exist prior to conception. This seems to be the clear teaching of the Bible. Whether God creates a new human soul at the moment of conception, or whether God designed the human reproductive process to also reproduce a soul, God is ultimately responsible for the creation of each and every human soul.

How are human souls created?

The reason I haven’t answered your question is because I just don’t know. But pulling verses hither and yon doesn’t prove you belief, @loDebar.

 

[loDebar]

A third view, but one that lacks biblical support, is the concept that God created all human souls at the same time, and “attaches” a soul to a human being at the moment of conception. This view holds that there is sort of a “warehouse of souls” in heaven where God stores souls that await a human body to be attached to. Again, this view has no biblical support, and is usually held by those of a “new age” or reincarnation mindset.

Whether the Traducianist view or the Creationist view is correct, both agree that the soul does not exist prior to conception. This seems to be the clear teaching of the Bible. Whether God creates a new human soul at the moment of conception, or whether God designed the human reproductive process to also reproduce a soul, God is ultimately responsible for the creation of each and every human soul.

How are human souls created?

The reason I haven’t answered your question is because I just don’t know. But pulling verses hither and yon doesn’t prove you belief, @loDebar.

The old Rabbis support the warehouse of souls,

This in not reincarnation but incarnation. It is appointed of man once to die then the judgment

Pulling verses is good because they are true if within context meaning, stated separately or together

 

[loDebar]

Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --

Were they children before "partaken of flesh and blood"?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --

Were they children before "partaken of flesh and blood"?

All I am saying is there’s no biblical proof of your ‘warehouse of souls’ theory. Again, I don’t know the answer.

 

[Yeshua1]

I recently challenged one to provide verses that shows our eternal souls were created. They refused and challenged we show souls were created before our bodies were formed. I will do both.

Since our human bodies are not created but formed and continues today, we have to consider that in Gen 2;2 says
Gen 2:2
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
"the rested" is ceased to work as shabath

so if eternal souls are also being created as the body it violates the verse.

Jesus said:

Jhn 3:5¶
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man (tis, one) be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

He says . one must be born of the water, then born of the Spirit, repeated in v6, flesh. them spirit
One must be a human to share in the death of Jesus. Being Human is part of the method God choose to be saved

the promise, gods is elohyim, (not God who is Elohyim Elohyim)
Psa 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


Jhn 10:34¶
Jesus answered them, 'Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
Jhn 10:35

if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,)

so, God said creating was stopped, so more souls were not to be created, so they were already created before the body were formed.

Jesus says ye are gods.

God said ye will die like men

Jesus said one must be human to be saved.

Jesus said
Jhn 5:22
for neither doth the Father judge any one, but all the judgment He hath given to the Son,

Jhn 8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Jhn 3:18¶
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Sp if I was not condemned as a man, I had to be condemned as a eternal being before

Follow the logic, check the verses,

God created the souls in humans at time of conception, as only Mormons hold to souls existing before we did!

 

[SovereignGrace]

God created the souls in humans at time of conception, as only Mormons hold to souls existing before we did!

But loDebar is wanting biblical support for souls being created at conception. Oddly, his stance has zero biblical stance as well. The Bible is silent on this, imo.

 

[loDebar]

God created the souls in humans at time of conception, as only Mormons hold to souls existing before we did!

Gen 2:2 says otherwise

no, old Rabbis teach "warehouse" of souls

 

[loDebar]

All I am saying is there’s no biblical proof of your ‘warehouse of souls’ theory. Again, I don’t know the answer.

Gen 2:2 proves it,,,

 

[SovereignGrace]

Gen 2:2 proves it,,,

No it doesn’t. He ceased from creating the universe, but it’s quite the leap to say it also includes creating souls.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@loDebar...I lean towards traducianism, but not fully committed to it.

 

[loDebar]

No it doesn’t. He ceased from creating the universe, but it’s quite the leap to say it also includes creating souls.

why the contradiction to Gen 2:2?, He was creating the physical universe and all in it. He finished. The spiritual is not included. He did not create Satan at his point. He and all beings in heaven were created earlier

 

[InTheLight]

@loDebar...I lean towards traducianism, but not fully committed to it.

Wait a minute...

According to your link, Traducianism is the theory that a soul is generated by the physical parents along with the physical body.
Yet, Calvinism says that God elected people from "before the foundation of the world". The soul is the part of a person that lives eternally. So how does this process work? Does God "look down through the corridors of time" to see when two people will get together and create a soul, and then retroactively "save" it from before the foundation of the world? Please explain.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Wait a minute...

According to your link, Traducianism is the theory that a soul is generated by the physical parents along with the physical body.
Yet, Calvinism says that God elected people from "before the foundation of the world". The soul is the part of a person that lives eternally. So how does this process work? Does God "look down through the corridors of time" to see when two people will get together and create a soul, and then retroactively "save" it from before the foundation of the world? Please explain.

This is not the OP’s point. Start a thread and I will chime in.

 

[Yeshua1]

@loDebar...I lean towards traducianism, but not fully committed to it.

I lean toards God creating the soul at time of conception , but either way, God creates it , iot already created just lookinhg for a body to inhabit as the Mormons teach!

 

[Yeshua1]

Gen 2:2 says otherwise

no, old Rabbis teach "warehouse" of souls

Why would God create souls before having a Body? Sould and physical bodies are at same time!

 

[InTheLight]

This is not the OP’s point. Start a thread and I will chime in.

Nah, I'm pretty good at multi-tasking. I think this thread can handle both topics.

 

[loDebar]

you

Why would God create souls before having a Body? Sould and physical bodies are at same time!

you are spiritual being as well as physical, The physical is temporary, the spiritual eternal

 

[loDebar]

you

you are spiritual being as well as physical, The physical is temporary, the spiritual eternal

The body is for salvation.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[Yeshua1]

The body is for salvation.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The soul was made for that specific body!