Were souls created before the body is formed?

[loDebar]

The natural man, his body and soul, was created in Adam. All our breath is from that breathed into his nostrils on the 6th day. Creation is not ongoing. We don't think creation is ongoing when new bodies are formed. We see it as the ongoing process of living cells, like apple trees bearing apples and growing new apple trees.

There is nothing to indicate that it is not the same way with the spirit of man.

To go beyond that is to go beyond what is written. The idea that "becoming human" is a process of the salvation of a pre-existent souls is superstitious claptrap.

One wonders why IoDebar is so hawkish on proving the Mormon doctrine of pre-existence?

God uses the formed because we are of the earth.
Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


Your ignorance is showing, Mormons consider those on earth to be part of expanding Heaven. similar to Islam. They do not believe in souls as we do.

We are the bad guys in the story. We are condemned already
I

 

[Aaron]

God uses the formed because we are of the earth.
Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


Your ignorance is showing, Mormons consider those on earth to be part of expanding Heaven. similar to Islam. They do not believe in souls as we do.

We are the bad guys in the story. We are condemned already
I

Your superstition is showing. We are not pre-existent. And Mormons do teach that we are all spirit children of the Father in Heaven, living with Him and knowing Him, but having to depart to 'become human', as you say, as part of the process of becoming like Him.

 

[loDebar]

Your superstition is showing. We are not pre-existent. And Mormons do teach that we are all spirit children of the Father in Heaven, living with Him and knowing Him, but having to depart to 'become human', as you say, as part of the process of becoming like Him.

They teach the soul includes the physical.. like the OT use of souls

 

[loDebar]

He became flesh and blood like us, so that by one death many can be saved

Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[Yeshua1]

Not eternal as God is eternal. Eternal means w/o beginning or end. We have a beginning but we will never cease to be throughout eternity, but that does not mean are eternal. Only God is eternal.

We will be Immortal, but are not eternal, as that means no beginning and no ending!

 

[loDebar]

We will be Immortal, but are not eternal, as that means no beginning and no ending!

I am using the verses as given,

Jhn 3:15

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

αἰώνιος aiōnios is used for both

 

[Yeshua1]

I am using the verses as given,

Jhn 3:15

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

αἰώνιος aiōnios is used for both

God alone is ternal ,a s He has no beginning, unlike everything else!

 

[loDebar]

God alone is ternal ,a s He has no beginning, unlike everything else!

Argue with scripture.

The spiritual will exist outside of time, the physical within time. Space and Time was created when Satan and others fell.

 

[Yeshua1]

Argue with scripture.

The spiritual will exist outside of time, the physical within time. Space and Time was created when Satan and others fell.

Actually, when all things were created by god is when time/space/matter/enery wee made, as only Gopd is eternal!

 

[tyndale1946]

Argue with scripture.

The spiritual will exist outside of time, the physical within time. Space and Time was created when Satan and others fell.

Okay I will let scripture speak for itself, argue with it... Brother Glen

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Okay I will let scripture speak for itself, argue with it... Brother Glen

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

His new age mysticism is mind-numbing. To quote Willy Wonka, “The suspense is terrible...I hope It'll last.”

 

[loDebar]

Actually, when all things were created by god is when time/space/matter/enery wee made, as only Gopd is eternal!

no, Time and space are only in the physical universe .

 

[loDebar]

His new age mysticism is mind-numbing. To quote Willy Wonka, “The suspense is terrible...I hope It'll last.”

This is a diversionary tactic that is used when the logical understanding and application scripture fails.

 

[loDebar]

Okay I will let scripture speak for itself, argue with it... Brother Glen

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

This is the application of scripture, that verse were provided. comment the verses and subject or shut up

 

[percho]

In order for soul, to be, found, does it require some type of clothing?

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 2 Cor 5:1-3

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Acts 2:31
And as concerning that he raised him (the soul Christ) up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption Acts 13:34,35
For (the living soul) David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Acts 13:36

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1 Cor 15:42 Did Christ die?
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. V's 45,46

IMHO What was made from the dust of the ground became living soul, needing to be, born again.

 

[loDebar]

In order for soul, to be, found, does it require some type of clothing?

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 2 Cor 5:1-3

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Acts 2:31
And as concerning that he raised him (the soul Christ) up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption Acts 13:34,35
For (the living soul) David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Acts 13:36

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1 Cor 15:42 Did Christ die?
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. V's 45,46

IMHO What was made from the dust of the ground became living soul, needing to be, born again.

the pnuema is spiritual,, not physical at all, Do angels, cherubim or seraphim have clothes?
Adam became a living soul , in this case a living being because it includes the physical

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
1Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Rev 16:3
And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Sin and salvation are spiritual not physical. The body is not saved, We still face physical death

 

[Aaron]

Actually, when all things were created by god is when time/space/matter/enery wee made, as only Gopd is eternal!

The Redeemed are given eternal life, and are made partakers of the divine nature.

But the guy you're debating thinks this world was created to save people or spirits who sinned before Creation, and that is wholly against the Scriptures.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Redeemed are given eternal life, and are made partakers of the divine nature.

But the guy you're debating thinks this world was created to save people or spirits who sinned before Creation, and that is wholly against the Scriptures.

It's new age mysticism and I wonder how long he'll be allowed to spew it on here. To quote Willy Wonka, “The suspense is terrible...I hope It'll last.”

 

[loDebar]

The Redeemed are given eternal life, and are made partakers of the divine nature.

But the guy you're debating thinks this world was created to save people or spirits who sinned before Creation, and that is wholly against the Scriptures.

Please prove it is against scripture, I can't find it an would appreciate your knowledge

 

[loDebar]

It's new age mysticism and I wonder how long he'll be allowed to spew it on here. To quote Willy Wonka, “The suspense is terrible...I hope It'll last.”

Please show how this is new age, I suggest reviewing the words in RED