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Were the disciples saved before the resurrection?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by ILUVLIGHT, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Post the date and time of my post that you are quoting! Let's see exactly what I said, that should be easy enough for you to do.

    You're making this up as you go along!

    By the way, your rebuke is ignored!
     
  2. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    you speak a load of bollix

    johnp.
     
  3. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    I'd like to say you are the only one confused around here, but there are others, especially those who insist on the ABSOLUTENESS of the Bible!
     
  4. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Go on Wes enlighten us. Where else can we find the absolute?

    I am serious, I'd like to know. Is it in the spirit realm or where?

    johnp.
     
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    As I've said before, the Scriptures contain Absolute truths, on of which is that Jesus died to atone for sin! However to say that the Scriptures are ABSOLUTE means that every single thought, jot and tittle of the scriptures is ABSOLUTE, and we know from the number of versions of the Scriptures that they cannot be Absolute because if they were, there would be no translations, not "renditions", NO ARGUEMENTS over meanings, etc. Everything would be ABSOLUTE!
    Think about it!
     
  6. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    JohnP;
    Show us what a man you are and show us the post of Wes's, that you make all these claims from. I've read most of them, but maybe I missed this one. Come on show us. I'll bet you won't do it because, I think you're wrong.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  7. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >How ever men were saved by keeping the Law in the Old Testament.

    NOT TRUE! There isn't one single unique verse in Exo thru Deut that refers to one's status in the next life!! There isn't one single verse which even infers that the blessings and cursings apply to the next life or to any gentile living outside the Land of Israel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Wonderful Declaration billwald! A truth of a Higher order!
     
  9. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    ILUVLIGHT.

    You go back and read them all and then come and ask pointed questions.
    Tell me what claims I made in paticular, I made many, and where you think I'm wrong.

    johnp.
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I didn't read the whole thread, but from what I casually perused it seems to me that you already have your mind made up. If the following has been said before, then I apologize for the redundancy.

    The Spirit said, The just shall live by faith. Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 1:17.

    Paul said in Romans that Abraham was justified by faith without the works of the law. The law was added NOT to save or justify but so that sin would appear exceeding sinful. IOW, so that we could see the real extent of our sin. Salvation has always been by grace through faith, from the time of righteous Abel (Mt. 23:35; Heb. 11:4) to the end of the world.

    As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, the Holy Spirit has always been active in God's purposes for Redemption. The nature of that involvement has changed in the NT, but it has always been the Holy Spirit that plants the seed of faith in a man's heart.

    So, yes, the disciples were saved. Yes it was because God through the Holy Spirit opened their eyes of faith. And even after Pentecost, you never see the Apostles laying their hands on someone to receive salvation, only to receive the Holy Spirit.

    Going from these basic facts, you should in time with study and devotion, be able to answer your own question.
     
  11. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi JohnP;
    I told you that you wouldn't back up your false claims. You're making false accussations against a brother in Christ. It's your responsibility to show proof. Not only that Wes is familar with spirits but also where God's word says not to speak with spirits. You have purposely attacked Wes. That is not right, nor is it becoming of a Christian.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  12. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    i am working on it now

    that is my proof

    johnp. as i said i am working on it now.
     
  13. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi Aaron;
    Good resonse;
    Could you show just how Abraham was saved by faith when there is only one faith that saves and that is faith is in Christ. No one even knew the name of the messiah until Isaiah. Man has'nt always had all of the scriptures. Faith in the Law or just faith in God the Father doesn't saved.
    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    So with out Christ men who believed and followed The Law were held captive in Abraham's bossom. There is no way to the Father with out Christ.

    Until the sacrifice of Christ there was no atonement for sin. Even if men looked and believed that someday there messiah would come it is still not enough.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  14. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi JohnP;
    You still haven't shown where Wes is familiar with spirits. We are instructed to test a spirit and that is exactly what Wes is referring to.
    You have not shown where the Bible says we are not to speak to spirits.
    One other thing. You falsely accussed me of running diversion for Wes. I'm telling you that you accuse men of the unrighteousness that is in your own heart. I have never run diversion for anyone. If you continue to accuse Wes and me of what is obviously in your own imagination it will only cause you to be ignored. No one here has to answer any of your post.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  15. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    EXCUSE ME? It seems to me you are neglecting the truth that God is FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT! Jesus said "I and the Father are one" It is not possible to separate them! Therefore, FAITH in one is FAITH in ALL! FAITH in GOD does SAVE! The truth you elude to is "there is no other name UNDER heaven whereby we must be saved" And that means that Jesus, the Son of God is the only 'man' in which faith is saving faith.

    For Abraham, it is his faith that God saw as Righteousness, Therefore God Saved his Servant Abraham on the basis of Abraham's faith in God.
     
  16. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    This scripture is saying that no man can "believe in" which is 'come to' God without acknowledging Jesus to be His Son.
     
  17. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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  18. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    1. I have never spoken to the spirit of a dead human being!

    2. I speak to the Spirit We all acknowledge as God the FATHER. In so doing, I am submitting myself to HIS authority, HIS power, HIS Holiness, HIS grace, His mercy, and yes, HIS justice. I am opening myself to HIS instruction, His blessing, His Joy. I Offer Him my praise of and for HIM! I plead with him In the same manner that the Bible Notables did. He is MY GOD! I am HIS Creation. HE first loved me, can I do any less than LOVE HIM with my whole heart and being? And Yes there are deceptive spirits that are constantly attempting to drive a wedge between Me and God! That is why I test them!

    3. I "hear" the pleadings of the Holy Spirit, and Yes, I do respond to those pleadings not only in confession of sins of which the Holy Spirit convicts me, but in my pursuing activites which I am led by the Holy Spirit to believe are God's activities for me. And I often ask if that comes from God by asking in accordance with 1 John 4:1-4.

    4. NO I AM NOT A SPIRITIST! in accordance with the common dictionary definition of the term! I do not live every minute in direct dependence on a "spirit guide". Yes, I know they exist! And Yes, I know them to be deceivers! And Yes, I Know that we are not to submit to them! I don't!

    5. The Scriptures command us to TEST THE SPIRITS! to see if they are from God or from Satan! If you do not do that, which of us is wrong?

    In case you do not understand I am going to paraphrase the Apostle and Tell you that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against Principalities and Powers, all of which are of the spirit realm! Ponder that the next time you wander through a grave yard realizing the every grave there remains occupied with dead, decayed flesh! But not one of them contains spirit!
     
  19. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Wes.

    1. I never said you did. Why defend yourself against a charge that you have not been charged with? If that is just a confirming that you don't speak to the dead I believe you.

    2. "That is why I test them!" How, by asking them?
    And Yes there are deceptive spirits that are constantly attempting to drive a wedge between Me and God! That is why I test them!

    3. And that is wrong. You are to test everything by the word of God and not to interact with the spirit world. "Ask me." Jesus said.

    4. Not in the dictionary definition? But outside of that you do.

    5. So you speak to the spirits. That is forbidden. Testing the spirits does not involve asking them anything. You have the scripture wrong. Why would God forbid it and command it? You are easy with contradictions.

    Posted by ILUVLIGHT.
    Why defend yourself against a charge when you have not been so charged. If that is just a confirming that you don't I believe you.
    That does not make you not a spiritist. The bible clearly distinquishes between speaking with the dead and spiritism, "Dt 18:11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God."

    johnp.
     
  20. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi Wes;
    Not true if it were then the Jews who follow the old law would be saved. They rejected Christ you can believe in God all you want to but it will not save you.
    Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    Jesus Christ is the only Salvation His name Jesus means Salvation.
    No one can seperate the three personages of God but belief in God only will not save you. If it did then there was no need for God to send His son to die for our Salvation.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
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