West Palm megachurch pastor resigns amid debt, résumé exposé

This is not the Christian church (Baptist) I knew . . . pastors did not recommend men of low character . . . they did not brush stuff under the rug.

And when men failed in their character - they knew they had to resign . . .

 

Pastors who "circulate" their credentials do want to kinda sorta "Polish" them up a wee tad----as for polishing my credentials??? Friend---have you ever tried to polish a Cast Iron skillet??? No matter how hard you rub---its still black and hard and kinda sooty and rough on the bottom side---but hey---you throw a glob of butter in it--heat the fire a little----and ---- its Cajun cookin' at its best!!!!

I do have to say---it would do churches well to say that their only "Good Ole Boy" system is when committees get on their faces before Almighty God and stay there until a name comes down from Heaven----instead of waiting for names to come from Woodstock or Memphis or Orlando!!! See what I'm sayin'?????

 

This committee did not do what they should have done.
1. They didn't check past churches.
2. They didn't ask for 2nd generation references (Ask given references for another name).
3. They didn't do even a cursory background check. They could have simply googled his name and found out loads of information.

We all gripe about this ol' boy system. Did Johnny Hunt know about the man's problems in a previous church? I hope he didn't. If he did, then he deserves reprimand. If he didn't, he must not have kept in close contact with him. BUT, many of us are at our present church because someone who knew the church or a member of the committee gave them our name. This is also the ol' boy network. It's just our ol' boys are not as well known.

But the predominant responsibilityand liability was with the search team.

 

I agree that those of us who get asked about other ministers do have a responsibility to speak clearly and truthfully when we know something. There is a church in our area where, anytime I go there, a former pastor search committee chairman thanks me again and again for turning them away from a pastor candidate in whom they were interested. My assessment of him was on target, as it turned out in another church. Of course I couldn't "save" that other church.

And then there is the time, in working with a man after his incarceration, I found out that he had been sexually abused as a teenager by an Episcopal priest ... I contacted his bishop and the next thing I knew that priest had been suspended. The bishop said, "I did notice that there were always young men staying with him." Duh!

I wonder if lawyers and physicians deal with the same sort of reference issues. I expect they do.

Incidentally, "in my day" pastors did not "apply" for pastoral positions. In fact it was considered too ambitious. I served on a pulpit committee once, many years ago, where we pitched out "applications". But of course the other names that we dealt with came from other pastors who just "felt the Spirit leading them to suggest ......". It's really an application via an intermediary.

There is something commendable, if a bit impersonal, about the Personnel Services system within the American Baptist Churches. A church sends in a form that lists some of the characteristics needed in a pastor, and the computer matches those with parameters offered by ministers whose data are in the system, and spits out potential candidates. Not perfect, and certainly not the only method to use, but it does include evaluations by three other people, including one's area minister or executive.

I also agree that it is good to get secondary references ... from people whose names were not given by the applicant. EVERYBODY has at least ONE unthinking friend!

 

As GB pointed out before, their whole system was messed up in looking for a figure head and not a pastor. They wanted a spokesman who could fire them up and was endorsed by the "heavy hitters" in the convention. Not a pastor

sort of agree...sort of disagree. The influence weilded by some in this convention is both undue and (from a polity standpoint) injurious to healthy churches. Should this church have checked everything about this fellow? Of course, and thus the buck stops with them. Should whomever was involved in his nomination and recommendation to the committee have mentioned his problemed past? Certainly. This wasn't a little known event in the life of a tiny church in South Georgia. A simple Google search probably would have yeilded results that would have disqualified this man. A standard background check and credit check might have thrown more flags than a double forward pass at a Georgia game.

I really think we as SBCers need to produce a document helping churches full of faithful servants of God on how to screen, question, and hire pastors and staff people.

This is a lose-lose for everyone involved

 

When was this?

I had a pastor from about 1981-1993 that resigned amid suspicion of adultery and indictments of tax fraud. He was forced to resign and to this day claims that the church was wrong in telling him to leave. Interestingly enough, the doctorate he claimed was honorary, his resume was a bit sketchy, and he came highly reccomended by other pastors.

I wish pastors did not reccomend men of low character, I wish people didn't brush stuff under the rug, and I wish that if someone did fail in their character, they would resign on their own...but I have a hunch that this has never been the trend. That is to say, we can probably find the opposite going back a long time

 

Don't know about Georgia, but Florida has this kind of assistance and people who will train the search team. But this church wasn't a small church with limited resources and people. This was a mega-church (I hate that phrase) with mega resources both in people and in money.

I guess I'm just cranky because most every blog I have read - not talking about you, preachinJesus - uses this as a jumping off point to supposedly show how bad the SBC supposedly is.

now going off to get another cup of coffee :laugh:

 

Your right, this church was a great example of how well Florida's system is working.

 

Long time ago in a land far far away . . .

In a land called Texas . . . Outside of the big cities.

 

I think this points to a couple of problems that occasionally happen in churches, and because of the independent, autonomous nature of Baptists, it seems to be magnified. Somehow, we seem to have latched on to the idea that certain individuals in the professional ministry, because of what we see as "success" are accorded a level of "prominence" and prestige. The recommendation of certain "big name" individuals carries a lot of weight, so much in some circumstances, that it has the ability to affect what a church might do with regard to calling someone to their staff.

I was still a new believer when I went to a Baptist university. My roomate was a ministerial student who was a very dedicated student, not afraid of hard work, willing to get his hands dirty to earn extra money, did not neglect his studies and in his moral life, extremely conscientious. His discipline of personal Bible study and prayer was an outstanding example to me. I'd have to say that I owe a great debt of gratitude to him in that much of what I came to know and practice as a believer was due to his influence. During our sophomore year, a youth pastor internship opened up at a large church in town where the pastor was well connected with SBC big names. My roomate was thrilled to get called to an interview. When he came back, he was a little bit discouraged. He thought he had done well with the committee, but when he came out of the interview, the son of a "prominent, influential" SBC pastor was sitting in the outer room waiting his turn with the committee. We both knew this individual from our freshman year. He was the typical "party animal," lazy, arrogant, and made no secret of the fact that he was going to enjoy his college years because he was expected to go into the ministry and would eventually have to "settle down." He was going to a junior college at the time because he had been asked to leave Belmont because of his grades, and because his attitude had gotten him in trouble with administration.

My roomate figured this guy would get the internship because of his father's connections, and sure enough, that's what happened. He wasn't there for long, and his departure was pretty much kept very quiet and low key. My roomate now serves a church of about 150 active members on the edge of a small town in middle Tennessee, and has been there going on 10 years. He's as talented and gifted a pastor as I have ever met, in fact, I recommended him for our church but he felt led by the Lord to stay where he was. He's told me several times that he realized when he started that he wasn't from a "prominent", influential family, or church, his pastor was a regular guy and not a big name in the convention and you have to have those connections to serve in the "big time" churches. I think he would lead any church he served to new spiritual heights, and he's tremendously qualified. I know he is where God called him, but it makes me wonder how many people are serving in their vocational ministry position not because of their calling or qualification, but because of who they know.

That's scary.

 

Yep. I know the feeling.

When I was a teenager, I had a pastor who was finally forced to resign after his second affair (at least, he only got caught twice) during his tenure as our pastor. Apparently, he had persuaded the deacon committee that forcing him to resign after the first affair would make the church look bad in the eyes of the public, so they decided to deal "redemptively" with him instead of actually helping him and our congregation by moving him out of leadership. Of course, no "redemption" actually took place, just enabling. After the second affair a couple of deacons got their nerve up and showed him the door.

Unfortunately this whole thing could have been prevented if they had checked with his previous congregation or anyone in his former association. They had gone through the same trouble and we in the midst of forcing him out when our pulpit committee decided to call him.

 

We need genuine revival . . .

 

The SBC has always been personality-driven to a degree, put that aspect has become even more pronounced in the last 20 years.

College and seminary students are urged to hitch their wagons to big names and rising stars in the SBC, so they can get a "big church" that will pay well and provide perks. The unofficial Baptist Vatican makes pronouncements and promotes policies that their underlings pursue through various trustee boards, convention agendas and media outlets (especially Baptist Press). And few individuals dare ask too many questions or show "disloyalty" since the powers that be do not tolerate much dissent and have a long history of defaming those they believe to be their enemies.

 

Tom, Thanks for your observation about Johnny Hunt {about whom I know nothing, [except that he is a pastor, and was nominated for President of the SBC (don't even remember if he was elected or not)] and have never even seen, heard, read a sermon, or even seen a picture of, that I recall}. Anyone can be 'taken in' by the duplicity of another, [If it happened to the Apostle Barnabas (not J. Halo) it could certinly happen to me, and probably most any other of us, as well.], and Johnny Hunt may well have been taken in, in this manner.

I can offer an 'endorsement' of someone I know, only to find out later (or I may never find out) that my trust may well have been misplaced. That does not seem to have been considered by some on this thread. But let's us all not indict 'Sam' for the shortcomings, transgressions, and/or failings of 'Walt'. 'Sam' may not have known that anything is/was amiss.

Try this! Make it an extra-large cup of "café cubano"; chase it down with

A 6-pack of Ale-8-One ® ©, a very tasty soft-drink, BTW, as some of the KY crowd can tell you;

have at hand a large bottle of[SIZE=-1] Extra Strength Rolaids[/SIZE]™[SIZE=-1]® [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

(You'll need 'em! I promise!).
Drink this tomorrow (8/31), and you can then plan on going to sleep on, say, (9/4), for you will have found something that will make

[/SIZE]No Doz®[SIZE=-1] seem like [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] M&M'S®[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] by comparison.
[/SIZE]
Oh, and you can fly up and thank me, and you won't even need to use

!

:laugh:

Ed

 

AMEN!

It's easy to kick a man (or a church, or a search committee, or someone who gives and endorsement) when they're down, but does that really help anyone? The finger pointing won't do much good, but real revival sure will.

 

BB

I won't get in trouble for dialogging with you will I?