Wh y the misconception?

I believe that a Christian should STAND FIRM on his beliefs even when others in the 'same circle' are cutting them down. Stay firm on what you believe as long as it is lined up with the KJV Bible!! As a young preacher myself (17) I get lots of flack about my beliefs, but I don't back down. Shiloh keep believing what you believe and God will bless you, there are still a few of BIBLE BELIEVING Fundamental Baptists in the world, and I am PROUDLY one of them. No mater how much other people cut me down.

God Bless, Keep Standing STRONG!
Cline Priestley
Kidz-4-Him

 

Simply put your opinions are just that--opinions.

In answer to you how would you preach 1 Tim. 5:23, "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

Did not Jesus drink wine? Can you find any werse in the Bible that prohibits drinking wine? I can find a number that prohibit getting drunk but none against drinking wine. Can you?

If dancing is no good then how would you talk about how some of the prophets danced before the Lord. How would you preach Eccl. 3?

Perhaps probably the greatest Baptist preacher that ever lived smoked cigars and drank ale. His name was Charles Spurgeon. You might also know that B.H. Carroll the founder of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary smoked cigars. The issue is not cigars but our testimony before God and others.

You probabaly know that the things you listed are so petty compared to knowing Christ.

Just a few years ago I led a man that was playing his keyboard in bars at night. Never once did I tell him it was wrong. But one day he came to me and told me about how God had told him it was wrong. I knew because he was wanting to walk with God that I should invest my life in him and teaching him the most important things first. So I did. Today he leads worship at a church. He is also teaching the people how to disciple others. He is now five years in the Lord and is leading people to Christ and discipling them. In the same study I led with him was also a lady who had gone down the road as a stripper and she too is living for Jesus today. She is married and has a great family. God got ahold of her and he helped her to grow. What God did I could have never done.

Jesus preached against sin and so did Paul. But we cannot preach against was the Bible does not.

I wonder how times you have preach against gluttony. Do you exercise or does your belly hang over the top of your pants. After all your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. I have a pastor friend that runs marathons. Imagine if he were to preach on running and the importance of running to stay fit. Would you go running with him?

I remember one church I pastored where I told the deeacons that I would be riding my bicycle one hour per day. The look on their face told me everything. The way they treated me was to tell me that it was on company time. But when it came time to reroof the church building some of them were tired at the end of the day and sore the next. The majority were younger than myself. I preached the next day for three services.

I am convinced that it is sin if we do not stay fit. America is the most obese nation in the world. As a pastor do you lead the church in physical fitness?

You mentioned Lehman Strauss. I have heard him preach several times and never once did I ever hear him come with an attitude like yours.

Do you ever preach against the gross viloation of Matthew 4:19 and 28:19,20?

I can easily say that less than 10 percent (I think it is closer to one or two percent) ever disciple someone. Less than ten percent ever lead someone to Christ. So where does that leave the other 90 percent? Do you ever preach against that kind of complacenecy. I do assume that you are doing something about that by discipling people in your church as Jesus did His disciples.

Now I will get right down to where the rubber meets the road. You made the statement, "I guess John the Baptist had his head cut off for preaching against sin.....I guess we are in good company." So now let me ask you how many men are you discipling at the present time. If you are not discipling anyone as Jesus did then you are in sin especially as the leader of a church. You ought to be discipling some people who are discipling other or you are not a pastor but in name only. Your church ought to be a church that disciples each member and every deacon ought to be discipling others as Jesus did.

Sometime read http://66.218.71.225/search/cache?p=Born+to+Reproduce&url=csV8EdPVFzIJ:www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm

Now how does your judgement stack up against that.

The point is "Who's living for Jesus Christ because of your life?" The issue is not your ability to point out sin but your ability to make disciples who make disciples who make disciples who make disciples.

The funny thing is that the Bible and the Holy Spirit do a much better job at pointing out sin than you ever could.

 

Shiloh,

I hate to se you so upset ny the questions. You still have taught me Biblically the answers to my honest questions -

Where does the Word of God say that women in the 21st century western world cannot wear trousers?

Where does the Bible say I cannot take my child to the cinema to see "Finding Nemo?"

Where does the Bible say that I cannot listen to The Carpenters?

Where does the Bible say that a man's hair cannot touch his collar?

Where does the Bible say I cannot wear a beard?


As I said all of these have been pointed out to me as sin. Can you give me Biblical reasons for those that you agree are sin, please?

 

Surely you are not saying that in heaven, the original "Word of God" is a KJV bible. Please tell me that this is not what you are trying to say. I hope not.

I love and use the KJV. The church I attend uses the KJV. Each Sunday we read responsively out of the KJV; in fact, I am KJV preferred, but to think that the KJV is an exact copy of a bible that God has in heaven is absurd.

Again, please tell me that this is not what you meant to say.

 

Why are you so angry, Shiloh? For the most part the questions and input have been fair and reasoned. No one has attacked you with the vehemence you have responded.

If you truly hold to you views I would appreciate seeing your replies to some of the requests for Bible support for what you consider fundamentalist standards.

 

The problme comes I think, Shiloh, whne we try to determine what "looks like the world."

Does a man with a beard look worldly?
Do trousers on a woman look worldly?
Does going to the cinema look worldly?

How far do you draw the line, does it "look worldly" to go on a dog sled trip?

Who defines what looks worldly if not the Word of God.

I do not think it worng to go to the cinema to see "Finding Nemo." according to your critera thats all it takes fo rit to be okay. Can that be our rationale.

I am serious when I say that I have been told that my beard is sin by a more than one fundementalist pastor. Where is that logic?

 

Not sure where you get that, because the majority of the brethern we know follow the example of Christ. He had a beard, my husband has a beard, my pastor has a beard and every married man in our church has a beard.

 

Nonetheless, I have faced regular opposition to my beard over the years - I was even used refused a missionary deputation meeting because I had moustache!

Some consider beards worldly. The last rationale I heard is that it went back to when hippies has beards

 

Oh me, oh my.
Once i was on a pulpit committee.
We asked the congegration what they wanted
in a pastor. The common answer is someone
in their middle 20s who has a Dr degree and
15 years experience at successful pastoring.
Obvious you can't find someone like that, but
sometimes you can get close

Anyway, one person wrote down "no facial hair".
Half my Sunday School class still has facial
hair

Kinda like the high school named for a bearded
president that didn't allow facial hair

 

Even the Amish look like 17th Century worldly? Is the 17th century worldly
more sacred than 21st century worldly?

 

No one... I was wondering the same thing about you based on how you began this thread- thus my response.

Maybe that is your problem... I know what I believe and will submit in a moment if someone can show me proof that I am wrong... especially biblical sound proof. That is exactly why I am no longer KJVO and am not offended by women who wear make-up or slacks.

That makes one wonder why you get so defensive when someone factually refutes what you post???

Excellent. I have seen you challenged several times here already... frankly, you have fallen well short of responding effectively.

Been there, done that...

I may yet get a rebuke. If you think I should, please feel free to use the little whistle to notify the moderator. But in my opinion, you opened yourself up to criticism by claiming "misconception".

 

I would disagree with you in that from out of the mouth the heart speaks. The world does notice the genuineness or hypocrisy of the believer. As a pastor I have seen some leaders in churches do some things that are less than what I have seen in the world. Just look at the book of James.

The point I was trying to make is that you can point fingers everywhere else and that is endless. If I am not making disciples as Jesus commanded then what good is all my pointing. I am no more than a noisy gong. I am not obedient. When we make disciples we use great care in how we deal with the person. I can find all kinds of things wrong in others. God sees even more than I do. But even He chooses to give me grace rather than condemnation. So too we must use wisdom when we preach and when we make disciples. We don’t unload the entire truck at once.

Even those you disciple will often have different convictions than you. One man I discipled years ago will not go to bed without talking to somebody about Christ that day.

It’s not about how many preacher boys you have. It’s about walking with God. It ‘s not about preacher boys. It’s about making disciples who make disciples who make disciples. Some will disciple many and others will disciple a lesser number. It’s not about numbers but about God. It not about who has the most wins.

Walking with God is about relationship not about a list of do’s and don’t’s. You cannot measure spirituality by rules and regulations. You measure spirituality by relationship. I cannot boast about my relationship with God but I can boast about numbers. I know whether or not I have a good relationship with God under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I cannot measure that but I do know the answer. I do know if I am obedient or not. Nobody else may even know, but I do and so does God. The Pharisees thought they were spiritual but they were not. They were the only people Jesus ever condemned. They were the religionists.
.
We can easily preach what the Bible calls sin but the rest is opinion. We can preach the Bible but not opinion. Opinions are endless.

If you visit other countries you will see that they have different taboos. Even in the US that varies by location. But the Bible is till the same.

The following is from the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132


Let's Be Real

Truthfully, while disciple-making must be a priority for you, by whatever means you select, you must enter the process with your eyes open. What happens when you make true disciples - not just students or group members, but real zealots for Christ?

Peoples lives change
The collection of disciples - the true Church - gains favor with the world.
Society is changed by the disciples.
Society experiences turmoil as a result of the Church being true to God's truths and commands.
Disciples are persecuted.

Making disciples and being a disciple is not a complete joyride. Disciple-making is not the answer to every cultural problem that exists - in fact, an effective discipleship process may create new tensions and animosities within the culture as God's principles clash with Satan's principles in the battle of spiritual kingdoms. But the hardships that arise as a result of engagement in disciple-making are no excuse to avoid or minimize our devotion to the process and its outcomes; in fact, they are an indicator that the Church is being the Church. As long as the battle between good and evil persists, we will not experience a peaceful, loving, wholly satisfying society. However, while being avid, passionate disciples of Jesus Christ will not bring about the perfect society, the thrust to be true disciples is the answer for each of us, individually, in the quest to become pleasing and honorable people in God's eyes.

We cannot help but have a positive impact on the world when we are being Christ-like, even though the results of our life may not always look pretty. Not even Jesus, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace, the Savior of Humankind, was loved by all people. If we follow His ways and His footsteps, we should not expect to be loved and accepted by everyone either. But God, the Father of Creation, was completely pleased with the work of the Son - and that was all that mattered to the Son. So Jesus is our model and that is our challenge: to gain the acceptance of the Father, by imitating the work of the Son, through the empowerment of the Spirit. The results that emerge are up to God to disentangle. That is a task clearly beyond our capabilities.

When you hire people, you study their lives to look for clues as to what they will be like as an employee. When you buy products, you study the contents and reviews to determine which products will provide the outcomes you desire. As you strive to become a disciple and to make disciples, keep your eyes on the substance of the subject, whether it is you or someone whom you are discipling.


Here's what you're looking for - and, if it's absent, what you are trying to infuse within the true disciple:
the passion of Stephen
the joy of the post-Pentecost apostles
the integrity of Nathanael
the availability of Mary
the perseverance of Paul
the transformation of Peter
the wisdom of James
the servanthood of Martha
the love of John
the generosity of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus
the seriousness of John the Baptist
the studiousness of Luke
the humility and reverent faith of the centurion
the evangelistic sharing of Andrew
the character of Jesus


None of these stalwarts of the faith (with the exception of Jesus) was a perfect representation of each of the qualities listed here. Each of these individuals stood out for a handful of qualities, and presumably worked on developing other qualities that brought them into greater conformity with Jesus' life. As you study their paths to glory keep in mind that even the models of our faith fell short of the glory of God. By our very nature, we always will; but by God's will, we must not accept our limitations as excuses to give up.

The real obstacles to becoming a fully devoted, zealous disciple of Christ are not money, time, methods or knowledge. The major obstacle is the human heart. When that changes, all else changes. Jesus frequently reminded His disciples that the problem was not one of knowledge but of character The Pharisees had more religious knowledge than they knew what to do with but they lacked the character to apply it in ways that transformed themselves and their world. Judas spent many months living with Jesus, observing His ways and His miracles, learning timeless and transforming principles directly from the lips of the Master, and yet all of His knowledge and experience could not compensate for a wicked heart. A disciple is a person of Christian character. Just as Paul instructed his young disciple Timothy, if you develop appropriate character, the rest will follow.
Go, Therefore ...
Be a true disciple. Go and make disciples.
And what will it look like, when it works?

True discipleship produces holistic personal transformation, not mere assimilation into a community of church members.

True discipleship is witnessed by people who are determined to be a blessing to others - people who are never content to simply accept and enjoy God's blessings to them.

True discipleship creates Christians who aggressively pursue spiritual growth rather than passively experience spiritual evolution.

True discipleship spawns individuals who develop renewed lifestyles instead of believers who mechanically check off completed assignments on a developmental agenda.

True discipleship results in people who are more concerned about the quality of their character than the extent of their knowledge.

True discipleship builds churches known for their culture of love, commitment and service rather than for their events, information and programs.

True discipleship facilitates people devoted to a lifelong journey to imitate Jesus Christ, rather than the completion of a short-term regimen of tasks and responsibilities.

Do you passionately want to become a zealous disciple of Jesus Christ? Are you committed to bring others with you on that amazing journey?

Discipleship is about complete obedience to the Word of God, driven by a heart that can stand to do nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing else. Can we fulfill this mammoth challenge? Jesus, our mentor, says we can. "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these..." (John 14:12)
If you are devoted to the process of spiritual growth, and to allowing God's Holy Spirit to shape you on that journey, how you end up will bear scant resemblance to what you were when you began the journey.

 

Shiloh, I noticed that you conveniently skipped over my question. Maybe you were so busy you overlooked it, so I will ask again.

Is the Word of God in heaven a KJV bible, yes or no?

 

Nah, Dr. Bob. You've been LEFT with Him and I do think He'll take good care of ye!

(Would you want to be left with anyone else???)

 

***Murph I'm speechless on this one.

 

In that case, Murph, I'll jump in: John the Baptist was beheaded for confronting Herod regarding both murder and adultery, both of which are forbidden in the Ten Commandments.

I do not see there, however, prohibitions against drinking, smoking, pants on women, dancing, etc. etc. etc.

For Shiloh to equate himself with John the Baptist might be stretching things just a wee bit in these matters...

 

Shiloh, you were equating yourself with John the Baptist, and that is what I was responding to. He is not there in every page of the Bible, nor did he confront Herod on anything we are aware of except two items which are in the Ten Commandments. If I am wrong about any of that, please let me know.