What about cain ?

[savedbymercy]

dl

We can not draw a conclusion based upon the idea that because someone is not mentioned in the genealogy that they're not a child of Adam.

Oh Yes I can, it means cain was not in Adam at Creation. Cain was in the Serpent, not Adam ! Yes, God stated that the serpent had a seed as well as Adam ! Gen 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

dl



Oh Yes I can, it means cain was not in Adam at Creation. Cain was in the Serpent, not Adam ! Yes, God stated that the serpent had a seed as well as Adam ! Gen 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I'm sorry SBM but this sounds like an episode of buffy the vampire slayer or Supernatural. You are saying Cain was not the son of Adam but the son of the serpent which would make Eve a (to be discrete) a lady of the evening which would make cain half demon. Maybe you think he's the father of all vampires? I don't think you're properly exegeting the passage properly.

 

[DiamondLady]

Oh Yes I can, it means cain was not in Adam at Creation. Cain was in the Serpent, not Adam ! Yes, God stated that the serpent had a seed as well as Adam ! Gen 3:14-15
.

Well, you believe this is you wish. It's not what I'd call a salvation issue.

 

[The Biblicist]

dl



Oh Yes I can, it means cain was not in Adam at Creation. Cain was in the Serpent, not Adam ! Yes, God stated that the serpent had a seed as well as Adam .

Well then, that would mean Cain is not a sinner because Paul says that sin entered the world through Adam and by Adam to all his descendants - Rom. 5:12-19. Since Cain and all his geneoloy are not descendants of Adam and they are not "seed" of Christ then they could not be subject to sin and death. Can you find a THIRD source in Romans 5:12-19 for sin and death????

Readers, it does not matter what evidence you place before SMB or how irrational his views are, he will not admit to error even though his errors are oh so obvious!

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Well then, that would mean Cain is not a sinner because Paul says that sin entered the world through Adam !

Paul also said this Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Cain did not sin in Adam, but he sinned in his Father the devil. It is written that the devil sinneth from the beginning 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. The devil did not sin in Adam !

Also the angels sinned scripture says 2 Pet 2:4

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

With your logic, the angels that sinned, did not really sin because they did not sin in Adam !

Only the Elect sinned in Adam, cain sinned in his Father the devil, that is why John says 1 Jn 3:12

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[savedbymercy]

Well, you believe this is you wish. It's not what I'd call a salvation issue.

Yeah, what I believe is based on Truth of scripture !

 

[Don]

I get what's being said; spiritually, Cain was of the devil.

But I guess the question is: So? As has been pointed out, none of Cain's offspring survived the flood. So why the big deal about Cain being spiritually bereft?

 

[kyredneck]

The typology is thick here, for real:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1528709&postcount=3

As Cain killed Abel, so the Jews killed Christ.

As God appointed Seth instead of Abel (because Cain slew him), so Christ rose from the dead.

 

[savedbymercy]

The typology is thick here, for real:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1528709&postcount=3

As Cain killed Abel, so the Jews killed Christ.

As God appointed Seth instead of Abel (because Cain slew him), so Christ rose from the dead.

As Christ was of the seed of the Woman, Cain was of the seed of the wicked one, the serpent ! Gen 3:14-15 ! 1 Jn 3:12

Let it be known that all the non elect, the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, all belong to the serpents offspring of which they have no redeemer and cannot in any way expect deliverance from the damnation of hell as Christ states of them here Matt 23:33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Paul also said this Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
.

This text says no such thing. "death reigned FROM ADAM" not from "cain." Second, This text does not deny these from Adam to Moses did not sin in Adam but only denies they sinned LIKE (similitude) Adam sinned.

Third, why is the limitation TO MOSES if as you claim all the non-elect in all ages are the subject here???? It is obvious "TO MOSES" refers to the Law given by Moses. His point is that DEATH cannot be attributed to these because of WILLFUL sin (which is the likness of Adam's sin) or to violation of the Mosaic Law and so death can only be attributed to the fact they were IN ADAM when he sinned! This is the point stated in Romans 5:12 which Romans 5:13-14 logically proves.

Not only must you deny they sinned in Adam and therefore their death does not originate from Adam's sin but you must also deny they are HUMAN BEINGSS because MANKIND was created "in Adam."

However, you have even a bigger problem with this context. You have "ALL" who die represented by one man's sin being contrasted consistently with "ALL" who are represented by Christ in Romans 5:15-19. Who then are "ALL" those that Adam represented in his sin and who received CONDEMNATION:

Rom. 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.


You have been denying that the elect were ever condemned! Who are these represented by Adam unto "CONDEMNATION"? It is by One man that death entered the world, and by death sin and by sin condemnation! UPON WHO? Romans 5:15-19 contrasts only TWO MEN not THREE! Those represented by Adam were brought under CONDEMNATION.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

This text says no such thing

It sure does. The them, that did not sin in the simlitude of adam's transgression , simplitude meaning representation, death also reigned to them.

They did not sin as being represented in Adam as the Elect did. That thwarts your comment.

Then to add to that, sin did not have to be from adam in order for God to regard others as having sin. I showed you that with the angels that sinned, and with the devil who sinned !

Now cain did not sin in Adam, for scripture clearly does not put him anywhere in the geneaology of those generated from Adam ! Gen 5:1ff

And Eve, never claimed him as her seed ! She claimed Abel, and then his replacement Seth Gen 4:25

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

This clearly points out that cain was not of their seed ! Neither is any of the non elect, only the Elect of God sinned in Adam, not the devil's seed !

 

[convicted1]

SBM is pontificating the "two seed"/"serpent seed" doctrine, if ever I've seen it.

 

[The Biblicist]

This text says no such thing. "death reigned FROM ADAM" not from "cain." Second, This text does not deny these from Adam to Moses did not sin in Adam but only denies they sinned LIKE (similitude) Adam sinned.

Third, why is the limitation TO MOSES if as you claim all the non-elect in all ages are the subject here???? It is obvious "TO MOSES" refers to the Law given by Moses. His point is that DEATH cannot be attributed to these because of WILLFUL sin (which is the likness of Adam's sin) or to violation of the Mosaic Law and so death can only be attributed to the fact they were IN ADAM when he sinned! This is the point stated in Romans 5:12 which Romans 5:13-14 logically proves.

Not only must you deny they sinned in Adam and therefore their death does not originate from Adam's sin but you must also deny they are HUMAN BEINGSS because MANKIND was created "in Adam."

Readers, notice how SBM simply ignored the Biblical evidence I placed before him and merely asserted his position again without dealing with the contextual evidence presented against his veiws.

Why? Because he cannot deal with the problems I placed before him , especially the contextual fact that "ALL" those represented by Adam were brought under "CONDEMNATION"!

These CONDEMNED were "in Adam" not in Cain. If he attempts to say they were "all" those represented by one man Christ then he admits the elect were under CONDEMNATION in Adam.

Who are those "condemned" IN ADAM??????? Can't be those in Cain's line as SBM denies the Cain line were "in Adam."

 

[savedbymercy]

SBM is pontificating the "two seed"/"serpent seed" doctrine, if ever I've seen it.

If you do not believe in the Two seeds, then you simply do not believe the word of God ! Gen 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The woman here is speaking of Eve whom he [the serpent] had just deceived !

Now that automatically should let you know that the woman Eve with Her Head Adam, had a different seed from the serpent.

 

[convicted1]

Readers, notice how SBM simply ignored the Biblical evidence I placed before him and merely asserted his position again without dealing with the contextual evidence presented against his veiws.

Why? Because he cannot deal with the problems I placed before him , especially the contextual fact that "ALL" those represented by Adam were brought under "CONDEMNATION"!

These CONDEMNED were "in Adam" not in Cain. If he attempts to say they were "all" those represented by one man Christ then he admits the elect were under CONDEMNATION in Adam.

He is advocating the "two seed" heresy; all who fell in Adam will be saved, all who fell in Cain, won't.....similiar to the Kenites that Arnold Murray advocates.

 

[convicted1]

If you do not believe in the Two seeds, then you simply do not believe the word of God ! Gen 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The woman here is speaking of Eve whom he [the serpent] had just deceived !

Now that automatically should let you know that the woman Eve with Her Head Adam, had a different seed from the serpent.

And this has been proven heretical. Hold to it as you wish. This post is being reported to the Mods right now!

 

[savedbymercy]

He is advocating the "two seed" heresy; all who fell in Adam will be saved, all who fell in Cain, won't.....similiar to the Kenites that Arnold Murray advocates.

I have said nothing about anyone falling in cain, where did you get that from ? Now you are slandering and misrepresnting me !

Now show us where I stated that men fall in cain !

 

[convicted1]

I have said nothing about anyone falling in cain, where did you get that from ? Now you are slandering and misrepresnting me !

Now show us where I stated that men fall in cain !

Well, you said that Cain was not of the lineage of Adam. The two seed doctrine states that satan had intercourse with Eve, and she brought forth Cain. If Cain is not of Adam's lineage, then satan "fooled around" with Eve. I do not agree with this, but this is the only way that Cain could not be of Adam's lineage.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

However, you have even a bigger problem with this context. You have "ALL" who die represented by one man's sin being contrasted consistently with "ALL" who are represented by Christ in Romans 5:15-19. Who then are "ALL" those that Adam represented in his sin and who received CONDEMNATION:

Rom. 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Thats no problem, however if you wanna debate that, take that comment to this thread:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=75092

 

[The Biblicist]

If you do not believe in the Two seeds, then you simply do not believe the word of God ! Gen 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The woman here is speaking of Eve whom he [the serpent] had just deceived !

Now that automatically should let you know that the woman Eve with Her Head Adam, had a different seed from the serpent.

No, he just don't believe YOUR interpretation of God's Word. In the fall of Adam, the human nature became depraved or took upon the same character or likeness of Satan's nature. However, there will be born of "the seed of the woman" a Savior who will redeem "many" of the fallen race of Adam, all of whom will be BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. However, "many" will never repent of sin and continue in the fallen nature of which Satan is the "Father" not in the sense of SEXUAL origin but in the sene of SPIRITUAL likeness.

Romans 5:15-19 contrast the "all" created in Adam, condemned in Adam versus the "all" recreated (born again) in Christ and justified in Christ.