What about the Amish?

This could work. Then again, do you get same responses in speaking with "some Baptists"?

 

That may be the reason I have been wasting my time trying to find information from the "old order" on the net.....

DUh!!!:BangHead:

Sometimes I'm such a dufus..

Of course they wouldn't have a website....They are against computers..

Now there's something you'll never see... an old order amish message board like BB!

 

Don't worry tinytim, I saw a dufus in the mirror this morning ... and it wasn't YOU! :laugh:

 

http://www.ctlibrary.com/11546

TinyTim, try this Christianity Today article. I found it to be a balanced view of the Amish.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Thanks... I read that from the first page... It is informative, and well written.

 

If I may, I'll toss my nickle in here.

Regarding a cult:
The good way to know if a group is a cult is by the math factor:
1. Addition - do they add to salvation
2. Subtraction - do they take away from the deity of Christ
3. Multiplication - Do they multiply (add) other books to (help) the Bible.
4. Divide - do they seperate themselves as being the only ones being Gods people.


As to the Amish beliefs and Memonite, I can at least speak for those of Mid to East South Dakota.

My wifes father was raised Minonite and his father was a preacher that traveled all over North and South Dakota's for over 63 years preaching (he is 93 now and still kicking) as well as in portions of Montana and Wyoming. Half of her (my wifes) family reunions are Amish and at our last one I asked many about their veiws of salvation. And though they attest it is by the grace of God, they must prove it by how they live. If one does not live like they state, one is not saved no matter what they believe. Though it seems to teeter between truth and error, THIS IS A WORKS BASED SALVATION since it is based upon what you do as opposed to what you believe and have done with that belief. I know because I asked some of the men they said were teachers of thier beliefs and Gods word; I asked If someone believes what the bible says about salvation and confesses Christ as savior (the only one who can save them) does this not make them a beleiver. They all stated NO. One is not a true beleiver who does not live till death our way of life. I asked what if one is a true beleiver but walks away from Amish beliefs, He stated then they are NOT true believers anymore and lost thier salvation which is why we shun them. Now this does not speak for all but may in at least my part of the Dakotas.

 

Sure you will, they'll just call it a Baptist Board so no one will know they are discussing Amish beliefs.

 

I never heard of Memonites or Minonites, but saying that salvation is by grace, now prove your salvation by your good works, is not the same as salvation by works. It leans more into arminianism.......either way they can lose their salvation if they don't keep up.

Let's not sell these folk cheap!

Cheers,

Jim

 

Actually I mispelled Menonite, sorry.

However, It was not just show us your salvation by works but if you are not Amish you are not saved!

 

A couple of sites that claim to pass information to the internet on behalf of the Amish.

robycop3, I believe you are very incorrect about your assessment of general Amish theology.

 

I would say that being regarded as unorthodox/spurious, being a splinter group and cutting off 'rebellious' members is pretty characteristic of many separatist Baptist groups.

 

Did anyone see the news program a few weeks ago on the Amish girl who left the community because she had been raped by her brothers? There was a trial (it took a lot of courage for her to contact the police, which she only did after doing it the Amish way) and the brothers admitted to raping her many times (one said 150, I believe). They were raised to be honest, and they readily told the police and court what they had done. However, it is seems rather misplaced to have so much value on honesty but less value on the sexual inviolate privacy of a woman, especially your own sister.

Yet, the Amish way is that the brothers were reprimanded by the elders. Then they went back to raping their sister. It seems typical in closed communities that don't answer to the law that you find a lot of sexual abuse like this. This is also common in cults and cultic type groups.

At the trial, the courtroom was full of Amish who came to support the brothers, not the girl who was raped!!! I can tell you that this certainly dims my view of the Amish. One should not regard them or anyone who seems pious by just their outward presentation. You just don't know what goes on behind closed doors - probably a lot of silent suffering.

 

I find this true with humans as a whole, we pick a few things we feel are important and do the rest if we can. Some want to live by the law but won't love or forgive their fellowman. Some claim to be a Christian but won't make an attempt to live holy or according to his word. So this is not surprising even for the Amish, they don't use electricity but will rape their sister. As sad as that may be...

I didn't know this was possible. Why don't every criminal just declare they don't answer to our laws?

Being a sinner is the reason we need Christ. I am appauled with your story but it really says to me they are just human and no better (or worse) than the rest of us.

 

True that LeBuick

 

The thing about a closed community (including cults) is that no one knows there is anyone doing criminal activity there except some of the people in the community, who have their reasons for not reporting it. A regular criminal is not a part of such a community and can be caught. But if the deeds are not exposed, as is the case in closed communities and cults, nothing happens. Another example of this are the polygamous split-off communities of the Mormon church where girls as young as 12 or 13 are married to men 40 or 50 yrs. old who already have a few wives.

It's not just that they are human, but they are enabling sexual predators to continue to attack women and girls because of the way they handle it and keep it quiet. This is worse than just being human; this is deliberate evil, imo, and is not of God.

 

I thought you were saying this was legally acknowledged by society. Now this makes more sense. I don't think I keep secrets well enough to belong to a cult...

 

Glad you got my drift, LeBuick!

You don't join a cult - you join a group that seems to have answers and that usually treat you with love, at first. No one thinks they are joining a cult. And once you are in, you invest yourself, your time, you have given up your old life and usually friends and family, so you go along with everything. Cult leaders also use a variety of manipulations that keep people imprisoned psychologically and emotionally. Your worldview changes and you don't even know it; your whole world becomes the world of the cult and you see the world they way they see it. It's very powerful. That is why it's so hard to talk to people in cults and try to present the truth to them. You can't just reason with them - they are filtering what you say through their warped view of reality.