What About the Presbyterians?

[DHK]

Poll finds Presbyterians split on salvation creed


LOUISVILLE, Ky. | The Presbyterian Church USA's statement of faith says God through Jesus Christ delivers followers "from death to life eternal."


But one in three members of the nation's largest Presbyterian denomination seem to believe there's some wiggle room for non-Christians to get into heaven, according to a recent poll.


http://www.worthynews.com/top/washi...inds-presbyterians-split-on-salvation-creed-/

 

[Zenas]

For many years they have embraced a social gospel, which is a watered down gospel, and the church has become irrelevant. They have abandoned fundamental truths and adapted their beliefs to conform to 21st Century mores. The OP is only one example of this. As a denomination, they are paying a huge price for this by a dramatic loss of members. Their national headquarters in Louisville has had to lay off many staff members and the slide into oblivion continues.

This dramatic loss of members is not unique to the Presbyterian Church USA. It is happening in every mainline Protestant church in the United States

 

[eightball]

Not a startling assessment when it comes to Presby..USA members.

It is one "liberal" branch of the Presbyterian movement.

Sadly, you can find this phenomena with most of the old mainstream protestant churches. There are conservative/biblical wings and those wings that think that the bible allows for "fudgeing" things to the extent of allowing sin, and the ways of the world to be inclusive within their congregations.

We know that Paul became all things to all men in order to invite both Jew and gentile to the Gospel, but he/Paul did not water-down God's commandments, nor allow a "back door" into the sheepfold.

Sadly, denominations that have as their doctrinal base a very defined biblical foundation seem to look the other way, and are basically fearful to stand strong in the midst of a corrupt world that is looking for humanistic solutions to a spiritual problem/sickness. Presbyterian USA is just one of several mainstream denominations that have done so. Humanism, or secularism has been allowed to come in.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Not surprising.

Several years ago the "Presbetyrian Church USA" reccomended that all of their churches send people to a workshop that was to teach people how to find God through a particular Goddess...I cant remember "her" name.

It may have been the Goddess "Sophia".

 

[lori4dogs]

At General Convention, the same one that authorized Bishop Viki-Gene Robinson to become the first actively homosexual bishop, The Episcopal Church had a resolution brought to the floor that would have affirmed that "Jesus Christ is the way and the only way to salvation". It was defeated by 2 to 1 vote margin! It got very little attention because of the Robinson issue. The Presiding Bishop, Katherine Jefforts-Schori's response to the defeat of the resolution: "I don't think we can keep God in that small of a box".

The Presbyterian Church is going down the same road. Liberal seminaries=liberal clergy.
Liberal clergy=liberal laity.

The fact is they really don't care about big losses of membership. They will pursue their liberal agenda in the name of social justice no matter how many churches they end up closing.

 

[Jerome]

This is not just a liberal/mainline thing.

A 2008 Pew Forum survey asked evangelicals if:

Catholicism can lead to eternal life? 75% said yes
Judaism? 64%
Islam? 35%
Hinduism? 33%
Atheism? 26%
Agnosticism? 35%

 

[Thinkingstuff]

This is not just a liberal/mainline thing.

A 2008 Pew Forum survey asked evangelicals if:

Catholicism can lead to eternal life? 75% said yes
Judaism? 64%
Islam? 35%
Hinduism? 33%
Atheism? 26%
Agnosticism? 35%

How about Atheism?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Here is a link about the conference I mentioned in my earlier post...regarding the goddess worship being advocated in that conferance. Presbyterians, Episcopols, and other liberal groups where involved.

And believe it or not, there were some baptists that participated.

Link...


http://www.watchman.org/reltop/reimagin.htm

 

[lori4dogs]

"United Church of Christ, and American Baptists had the largest numbers in attendance. One third were clergy (Washington Post, 4 June 1994, p. C8)."

No surprise.

 

[Rippon]

Poll finds Presbyterians split on salvation creed


LOUISVILLE, Ky. | The Presbyterian Church USA's statement of faith says God through Jesus Christ delivers followers "from death to life eternal."


But one in three members of the nation's largest Presbyterian denomination seem to believe there's some wiggle room for non-Christians to get into heaven, according to a recent poll.


http://www.worthynews.com/top/washi...inds-presbyterians-split-on-salvation-creed-/

Lest a wrong impression is gained by the above : The PCUSA is not at all representative of Presbyterianism. It is a extremely liberal outfit. Only half of their membersip roll turns out for their version of worship. That would be about one million. Their membership is declining rapidly.

That's kind of the situation with the Southern Baptists.

The top 15 biblically conservative Presbyterian bodies including the EPC,PCA,OPC,ARP,KAPC,URNCA,BPC and PRC have over half a million members. I don't have the figures, but I suspect that a much greater percentage of these congregations are participating members because of their orthodoxy to the faith.

 

[lori4dogs]

The Presbyterian Church in our town has begun a 'decernment process'. It is a conservative congregation. They are probably going to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church if the main body votes in favor of the ordination of 'partnered' homosexuals in the General Synod that is meeting in July. The pastor has already decided to leave the Presbyterian Church.

 

[BobRyan]

Poll finds Presbyterians split on salvation creed


LOUISVILLE, Ky. | The Presbyterian Church USA's statement of faith says God through Jesus Christ delivers followers "from death to life eternal."


But one in three members of the nation's largest Presbyterian denomination seem to believe there's some wiggle room for non-Christians to get into heaven, according to a recent poll.


http://www.worthynews.com/top/washi...inds-presbyterians-split-on-salvation-creed-/

In John 10 Jesus said that he was the door - and that no one could enter the sheep fold any other way - but the door.

in John 6 no one comes to the Father but through Christ.

In both cases Christ is speaking to Jewish followers - that hadl to a doctrinal view of Jesus -- that we today would not accept as fully "Christian".

In essence the followers of Christ were expecting the messiah to deliver them from the Romans.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Presbyterian Church in our town has begun a 'decernment process'. It is a conservative congregation. They are probably going to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church if the main body votes in favor of the ordination of 'partnered' homosexuals in the General Synod that is meeting in July. The pastor has already decided to leave the Presbyterian Church.

Once they open the door to the gay agenda for church members -- it s short step from there to opening the door for the Pastors and other church leaders.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Lest a wrong impression is gained by the above : The PCUSA is not at all representative of Presbyterianism. It is a extremely liberal outfit. Only half of their membersip roll turns out for their version of worship. That would be about one million. Their membership is declining rapidly.

That's kind of the situation with the Southern Baptists.

The top 15 biblically conservative Presbyterian bodies including the EPC,PCA,OPC,ARP,KAPC,URNCA,BPC and PRC have over half a million members. I don't have the figures, but I suspect that a much greater percentage of these congregations are participating members because of their orthodoxy to the faith.

Do they all teach evolution?

In the context of evolution - isn't the gay agenda just "one more step"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Tom Butler]

I have a friend who is a member of an Orthodox Presbyterian congregation in Maryland. She says it is quite conservative and Reformed. The OPC is the one started by J. Gresham Machem back in 1936 ago as Presbyterians and other mainline Protestant denominations were descending into liberalism.

 

[Alive in Christ]

They are probably going to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church if the main body votes in favor of the ordination of 'partnered' homosexuals in the General Synod that is meeting in July. The pastor has already decided to leave the Presbyterian Church.

Good for him.

 

[Rippon]

The Presbyterian Church in our town has begun a 'decernment process'. It is a conservative congregation. They are probably going to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church if the main body votes in favor of the ordination of 'partnered' homosexuals in the General Synod that is meeting in July. The pastor has already decided to leave the Presbyterian Church.

He's not going to leave the Presbyterian Church -- just that particular part of Presbyterianism. You already said he'll join the EPC.

 

[Jerome]

The Presbyterian Church in our town has begun a 'decernment process'. It is a conservative congregation. They are probably going to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church if the main body votes in favor of the ordination of 'partnered' homosexuals in the General Synod that is meeting in July.

???

From the OP article:

Last year, the denomination's presbyteries rejected an effort to undo a 1996 policy requiring gay clergy to be chaste.

 

[nodak]

Oddly, while we have two Baptist churches in town, the only two preaching anywhere near salvation by grace through faith or imputed righteousness are the PCUSA and the ELCA. (Bad denoms, good pastors.)

We have lots of folks in our town that strongly disagree with the liberal garbage those two groups support, but also disagree with the works salvation being taught at the Baptist churches.

So they attend either the ELCA or the PCUSA. They don't join and are very careful how they support the local churches without supporting the denominations.

One guy says it is easier to clean up bad morals in people with a good understanding of salvation than it is to clean up a bad understanding of salvation in people with good morals.

And some of them are talking about getting a more conservative Presby. or Lutheran church in. Others are talking about getting a more accurate Baptist church started.

What would you choose if you wouldn't be here long enough to start a church? (College town.) A church that gets morality right but salvation wrong (in your opinion of course) or a church that gets salvation right but morality wrong?

 

[Speedpass]

Not surprising.

Several years ago the "Presbetyrian Church USA" reccomended that all of their churches send people to a workshop that was to teach people how to find God through a particular Goddess...I cant remember "her" name.

It may have been the Goddess "Sophia".

At one CBF General Assembly in the late '90s, there was a breakout session that featured worship of a Goddess Sophia-Haggai.