What About the Presbyterians?

[lori4dogs]

He's not going to leave the Presbyterian Church -- just that particular part of Presbyterianism. You already said he'll join the EPC.

No, I said the church has begun a period of discernment. The pastor has already decided to leave the denomination. It may be for another more conservative Presbyterian denominations but know one I have talked to seems to know. The latest news I heard was that he feels called to work as a missionary (within what organization I don't know) to Ethiopia. He originally had considered starting a new church in town but doesn't want people leaving the present church to join his new one. The present congregation has vital ministries going in town and I think he feels that these may be jeopardized by drawing people out of the church and weakening it financially. He sent a letter out stating to this so it's not hearsay.

 

[lori4dogs]

???

From the OP article:

Yeah, that was last year. I heard it barely passed. The General Assembly meets this July and there is a new resolution that would allow the ordination of gay clergy in 'committed same sex unions'. This issue tends to keep coming up within denominations, ie. the ELCA, until it eventually passes. This iis what gives strength to DHK's point on another thread, that people should stay and fight. By orthodox believing congregations leaving for more conservative ones, the one's that are remaining to 'contend for the faith' have their cause weakened. There are many that think the new resolution will pass and are already leaving before the denomination has a chance to pass a resolution similar to that of The Episcopal Church (the 'Dennis Canon') that basically says people may leave, but the property stays with The Episcopal Church. You may leave but nobody takes 'da silver'!

It's been my observation from watching what has happened over the years in The Episcopal Church that the 'orthodox believing' stay until 'the writing is on the wall' and they have no recourse. I know, different denomination, different polity. However, there are a lot of similarities to these two denominations.

In The Episcopal Church, the openly gay bishop, Vicki-Gene Robininson said that after The Episcopal Church opened it's doors to gay clergy people would flood into the denomination. Quite the opposite has occurred.

 

[billwald]

>In John 10 Jesus said that he was the door - and that no one could enter the sheep fold any other way - but the door.

>in John 6 no one comes to the Father but through Christ.

>In both cases Christ is speaking to Jewish followers - that hadl to a doctrinal view of Jesus -- that we today would not accept as fully "Christian".

>In essence the followers of Christ were expecting the messiah to deliver them from the Romans.

Assuming this cited comment is germaine to the thread because I'm the only one who changes the subject, what does one's expectations regarding Jesus have to do with God's ability to regenerate the person?

In other words, Jewish followers expected deliverance from Rome and Baptist followers expect to be "raptured." What is the theological difference between these two expectations? After all, 400 years or so later Jesus'es followers were delivered from Rome.

And exactly what do "through" and "by" mean? In other words, What is the initiating and empowering agency in John 10 and 6? If the initiating and power comes from God/Jesus/Holy Spirit then Trinity is not permitted to act unless the subect's theology is correct? And if not, then is God a "Pelagian?"

 

[lori4dogs]

At one CBF General Assembly in the late '90s, there was a breakout session that featured worship of a Goddess Sophia-Haggai.

It seems like every church that has pushed for 'inclusive language' eventually ends up with with an open door for such shenanigan's.

 

[billwald]

>Do they all teach evolution?

Where does the Bible permit the Church to teach anything but "Christ and him crucified?" If the church only taught the Gospel maybe this question would not arise.

 

[DHK]

The Presbyterian Church in our town has begun a 'decernment process'. It is a conservative congregation. They are probably going to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church if the main body votes in favor of the ordination of 'partnered' homosexuals in the General Synod that is meeting in July. The pastor has already decided to leave the Presbyterian Church.

Go back to the quote that Rippon said:

Lest a wrong impression is gained by the above : The PCUSA is not at all representative of Presbyterianism. It is a extremely liberal outfit. Only half of their membersip roll turns out for their version of worship. That would be about one million. Their membership is declining rapidly.

That's kind of the situation with the Southern Baptists.

The top 15 biblically conservative Presbyterian bodies including the EPC,PCA,OPC,ARP,KAPC,URNCA,BPC and PRC have over half a million members. I don't have the figures, but I suspect that a much greater percentage of these congregations are participating members because of their orthodoxy to the faith.

You did not identify the Presbyterian body that was beginning a "'decernment process'". That becomes an unfair generalization on your part. That is the same as if I said, "All SBC churches are liberal." But not all of them are. When you make such statements as you did above they become slanderous accusations, and unfair to the bodies that they represent which you didn't even mention. You probably didn't mention it because no doubt you don't know much about the Presbyterians to begin with. It is unlikely that you can differentiate between all the groups that Rippon mentioned.

Don't cast stones unless you know what you are talking about.
My wife is a former Bible Presbyterian. It is one of the branches of Presbyterianism that would put most of them to shame as far as preaching the gospel, evangelization, and zeal for a Godly life is concerned.

 

[lori4dogs]

DHK, I should have written with more clarity. The church I am speaking of is PCUSA. What I know about it is what I have read (in a letter sent by the pastor himself in which he states he is leaving that denomination) and heard from one of it's elders. No slander intended. I'm not casting stones. I think the church is wise in discerning another much more conservative Presbyterian denomnation.

 

[DHK]

DHK, I should have written with more clarity. The church I am speaking of is PCUSA. What I know about it is what I have read (in a letter sent by the pastor himself in which he states he is leaving that denomination) and heard from one of it's elders. No slander intended. I'm not casting stones. I think the church is wise in discerning another much more conservative Presbyterian denomnation.

Then there is no argument to present, but only agreement. The OP already stated that one in three of that particular denomination believe that there is another way to heaven outside of Christ. They are that liberal!

 

[BobRyan]

>Do they all teach evolution?

Where does the Bible permit the Church to teach anything but "Christ and him crucified?" If the church only taught the Gospel maybe this question would not arise.

I notice we get no takers so far on whether the Presbyterians are teaching evolution in all their universities or if it is just a few Presbyterian groups doing that.

So far we have no example of Christian group promoting gay agenda items without first promoting evolutionism.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

I notice we get no takers so far on whether the Presbyterians are teaching evolution in all their universities or if it is just a few Presbyterian groups doing that.

So far we have no example of Christian group promoting gay agenda items without first promoting evolutionism.

in Christ,

Bob

The Bible Presbyterians certainly don't. The never taught evolution and don't promote evolution. Bible Presbyterians (among the Presbyterians) are akin to the IFB's of the Baptists.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

As the board's resident Presbyterian, I thought I would add my two cents to this. I am saddened to see such poll, though not entirely surprised. There seems to be continued movement away from orthodox Christianity in many mainstream Protestant denominations, indeed all of Christendom it seems.

To keep things in perspective here, the poll involved less than 1/2 half of 1% of the PCUSA membership -- hardly a valid poll. Thankfully, the poll also found a larger number agreeing with the statement "Only followers of Jesus Christ can be saved" than otherwise.

Like many denominations, the PCUSA varies quite a bit. There are still many good churches, good pastors and good lay people. I hope and pray that they will be able to turn the tide against the liberalism that has invaded their denomination.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I notice we get no takers so far on whether the Presbyterians are teaching evolution in all their universities or if it is just a few Presbyterian groups doing that.

So far we have no example of Christian group promoting gay agenda items without first promoting evolutionism.

in Christ,

Bob

I have no idea of whether the PCUSA promotes the teaching of evolution. My own denomination does not and my guess is that the other more conservative ones do not either.

 

[Darron Steele]

...
Liberal clergy=liberal laity. ...

Hardly so.

Liberal clergy = secretive clergy.

Liberal clergy = clergy afraid of the not-so-liberal laity.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Liberal clergy = liberal laity

Liberal clergy = secretive clergy.

Liberal clergy = clergy afraid of the not-so-liberal laity.

__________

Actually, I think all three are correct