What all was Jesus wanting to accomplish while on earth?

[Skandelon]

God told Adam....dying thou shalt surely die....He was not joking,it happened.

So, your answer is that God decreed that all mankind would be born with a totally depraved nature, making them unable to even respond to God's own appeal for reconciliation. Right?

 

[Iconoclast]

My answer as given here was to the first question...do not move the target after i answered your first question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
God told Adam....dying thou shalt surely die....He was not joking,it happened.

So, your answer is that God decreed that all mankind would be born with a totally depraved nature, making them unable to even respond to God's own appeal for reconciliation. Right?

My answer which I repeat here is what God told Adam.After the fall into sin and death,mankind inherits the sin nature from Adam...yes....That it has happened exactly that way...shows it was decreed. Nothing happens that was not decreed to happen. Good things and sinful things are decreed to come to pass...but in no way is God to blame. You can keep blaming God for mans sin...but that would not be wise...but rather exceedingly sinful.....That is my answer.

 

[percho]

My answer as given here was to the first question...do not move the target after i answered your first question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
God told Adam....dying thou shalt surely die....He was not joking,it happened.

My answer which I repeat here is what God told Adam.After the fall into sin and death,mankind inherits the sin nature from Adam...yes....That it has happened exactly that way...shows it was decreed. Nothing happens that was not decreed to happen. Good things and sinful things are decreed to come to pass...but in no way is God to blame. You can keep blaming God for mans sin...but that would not be wise...but rather exceedingly sinful.....That is my answer.

I agree Icon. The sin of Adam brought death to all men. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death;

Death is what man has to be saved from.

The sin of Adam even brought death to the one who had no sin, because all the sin of the world was laid upon him by his Father who had begotten him. And he became obedient unto death even the death on the cross and was paid the wages of sin.

And you are right again, God wasn't joking, the Lamb was slain.

And what gives man the only hope he has of ever seeing life after he dies?

The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. He had been just as dead as Adam.

BTW he was slain before the man who brought death to all men was created.
That should say something about sin, and man and God and the Son of God the Son of Man.

 

[Skandelon]

Icon, I'm not attempting to argue that your view makes God the blame for man's sin. I'm saying that it was God's decision to bind all people from birth with a totally depraved nature as a result of the Fall. You haven't told us what is incorrect about that statement.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, I'm not attempting to argue that your view makes God the blame for man's sin.

I'm saying that it was God's decision to bind all people from birth

with a totally depraved nature as a result of the Fall. You haven't told us what is incorrect about that statement.

God tells us what we need to know,not what we might want to speculate about. We are told that upon disobedience Adam dying would surely die.

We all agree that is what is taught and try to understand it.God does not give an explicit explanation of how ,or what is involved in this death,only that it surely happens. We learn some of the effects of the death from other portions of scripture, romans 1,2,3, 7,8...eph2.4,5, 1cor2, 5,6 etc.

I'm saying that it was God's decision to bind all people from birth

While this is the result of the fall....[agreed]....I am not comfortable with anyone saying what God "decided" to do....unless God Himself says so.

If you will think back to many of our disagreements.....this is where I oppose all such attempts.If scripture is silent on it...I will be also.

Can you provide a verse or verses that sound like your statement?
I am not just nit-picking but we need to slow down and be careful before we ascribe any motive to God.

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree Icon. The sin of Adam brought death to all men. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death;

Death is what man has to be saved from.

The sin of Adam even brought death to the one who had no sin, because all the sin of the world was laid upon him by his Father who had begotten him. And he became obedient unto death even the death on the cross and was paid the wages of sin.

And you are right again, God wasn't joking, the Lamb was slain.

And what gives man the only hope he has of ever seeing life after he dies?

The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. He had been just as dead as Adam.

BTW he was slain before the man who brought death to all men was created.
That should say something about sin, and man and God and the Son of God the Son of Man.

I agree.the most important thing about Romans 5 that cannot be compromised is the connection with the first Adam brought sin and death to all men that it touches. The gospel is based on the last Adam being linked to all believers that are found in Jesus on the last day.

You cannot deny the fall of the first Adam, and expect to understand life in the second Adam, the last Adam.

 

[saturneptune]

I agree.the most important thing about Romans 5 that cannot be compromised is the connection with the first Adam brought sin and death to all men that it touches. The gospel is based on the last Adam being linked to all believers that are found in Jesus on the last day.

You cannot deny the fall of the first Adam, and expect to understand life in the second Adam, the last Adam.

My guess is that you believe all that Jesus was suppose to accomplish on earth was done. I have always liked the saying born once, die twice, born twice, die once.

 

[Iconoclast]

My guess is that you believe all that Jesus was suppose to accomplish on earth was done. I have always liked the saying born once, die twice, born twice, die once.

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


Jesus always did the Fathers will..... and then we have this also:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


I think this verse in hebrews speaks to what we are used of god to accomplish and complete the outworking of this work

 

[percho]

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


Jesus always did the Fathers will..... and then we have this also:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


I think this verse in hebrews speaks to what we are used of god to accomplish and complete the outworking of this work

Questions

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

What was this glory Jesus was asking of from God the Father? I believe there is another verse somewhere that states, "and gave him glory". Was it absolutely necessary for that glory, whatever that glory is, be given the Son?
What would the Son have been without that glory?

 

[Skandelon]

Can you provide a verse or verses that sound like your statement?

Romans 11:32

 

[Iconoclast]

Questions

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

What was this glory Jesus was asking of from God the Father? I believe there is another verse somewhere that states, "and gave him glory". Was it absolutely necessary for that glory, whatever that glory is, be given the Son?
What would the Son have been without that glory?

Jesus in coming to earth ...we are told ..humbled Himself:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The glory of God is in part a filling ...with the outshining of His Glory, or brightness of His Divine person..

Jesus in coming to earth as the Servant of the Lord....voluntarily veiled the visible manifestation of His Glory...which He had already as God.

In hebrews 1 we read this:

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Isa described God's glory as filling the temple....

[In the year of the death of king Uzziah -- I see the Lord, sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and His train is filling the temple/QUOTE]

from awpink
3. His Effulgency.

"Who being the brightness of (His) glory" (verse 3). In this verse the Holy Spirit continues to set forth the excellencies of Christ, and in the same order as in the preceding one. First, the Divine dignity of His person, His relation to the Father—He is the Brightness of His glory. The Greek verb from which "brightness" is derived, signifies "to send forth brightness or light," and the noun here used, such brightness as cometh from light, as the sunbeams issuing from the sun. The term is thus used metaphorically. So ably has this been developed by Dr. Gouge we transcribe from his excellent commentary of 1650: "No resemblance taken from any other creature can more fully set out the mutual relation between the Father and the Son: "1. The brightness issuing from the sun is the same nature that the sun is—cf. John 10:30. 2. It is of as long continuance as the sun: never was the sun without the brightness of it—cf. John 1:1. 3. The brightness cannot be separated from the sun: the sun may as well be made no sun, as have the brightness thereof severed from it—cf. Proverbs 8:30. 4. This brightness though from the sun is not the sun itself—cf. John 8:42. 5. The sun and the brightness are distinct from each other: the one is not the other—cf. John 5:17. 6. All the glory of the sun is this brightness—cf. John 17:5; 2 Corinthians 4:6. 7. The light which the sun giveth the world is by this brightness—cf. John 14:9 . . . Thus the Son is no whit inferior to the Father, but every way His equal. He was brightness, the brightness of His Father, yea, also the brightness of His Father’s glory. Whatever excellency soever was in the Father, the same likewise was in the Son, and that in the most transplendent manner. Glory sets out excellency; brightness of glory, the excellency of excellency."

That which is in view in this third item of our passage so far transcends the grasp of the finite mind that it is impossible to give it adequate expression in words. Christ is the irradiation of God’s glory. The Mediator’s relation to the Godhead is like that of the rays to the sun itself. We may conceive of the sun in the firmament, yet shining not: were there no rays, we should not see the sun. So, apart from Christ, the brightness of God’s "glory" could not be perceived by us. Without Christ, man is in the dark, utterly in the dark concerning God. It is in Christ that God is revealed.