What are churches for?

[12strings]

Actually Allan...your first two paragraphs are probably one of the most reasonable answers to the subject of "conventions" that I have seen to date in here. Very thoughful and reasonably stated. Thank you.....it does give me some food for thought. I'm still not sure that justifies them Biblically but it does no harm to their reasons for existence. I attend and am a member of an SBC affiliated church but I tend to always designate my offerings because I do not like some of the ways the "corporate" Convention uses some of the funding that they accumulate from the participating churches. There are some personal (and I believe godly) reasons I am here instead of an IFB church right now but I can't say I'm a "good" Southern Baptist. Of course, when we all get to the New Heavens and the New Earth and Eternity with "time no more", all of this will be blissfully irrevelant..Amen?

Now...I will apologize to Gina because I think I have gotten away from the original intent of this thread. I'm sorry.
Gina, when I get back from prayer meeting tonight I promise I will try and comment on your OP. I do have some valid thoughts on that (I think):thumbsup::laugh:

Bro.Greg

I'll just point out that if we didn't give any money to churches unless we agreed 100% with 100% of what they did, we wouldn't give to anybody! I don't like everything the SBC does with my money either, but I have decided not to worry about it, since I know SOME of it is going to good ministries & missions...
...on the other hand... wisdom in giving is certainly warrented...Our SBC church, BTW, recently greatly reduced our CP giving and decided instead to give a big chunk of it directly to the International Mission board.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And on another note...WHERE in the Bible do we find ANY biblical justification or call to form OR align with such entities as "local associations, state conventions and/or SBC",etc. ? I think the case could more easily be made IN FAVOR of Independent/Baptist(ic)/Non-denominational/Bible Churches rather than any of those. As for para-church ministries, such as Rescue Missions,Tract ministries,etc... I personally think that they are far better off and less subject to doctrinal issues and problems if they are operated under the auspices of a local church ministry. That said, there are many unaffiliated para-church ministries (for instance..the venerable Pacific Garden Mission in Chicago) that do a wonderful Gospel work and are worthy of support.(In my opinion)
By the way...just a reminder...there will be NO DENOMINATIONS in Heaven! Amen? Comments anyone??

Great thread Gina!! Thanks!

bro.Greg

I sincerely hope not! Hey Im walking on air. Just got off the phone with a Pastor of a WELS / Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church (after reading their belief statement on line) & I am kinda impressed with his answers to me & I like the WELS stance on things....Biblical, orthodox, evangelical....Let you know more on Sunday. Been away from a home church so long!!!

Les enthusiastic about their liturgical & sacramental / infant baptist stances but ....

 

[Allan]

I sincerely hope not! Hey Im walking on air. Just got off the phone with a Pastor of a WELS / Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church (after reading their belief statement on line) & I am kinda impressed with his answers to me & I like the WELS stance on things....Biblical, orthodox, evangelical....Let you know more on Sunday. Been away from a home church so long!!!

Les enthusiastic about their liturgical & sacramental / infant baptist stances but ....

You realize Lutherans mostly hold to Universal Atonement like Luther did right?
Just curious if you knew that, since you hold strongly to Limited Atonement. Either way, I hope it works out for ya.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You realize Lutherans mostly hold to Universal Atonement like Luther did right?
Just curious if you knew that, since you hold strongly to Limited Atonement. Either way, I hope it works out for ya.

Yes I am "DEEPLY DEFINITE ATONEMENT" & as a side note, I dont like the stupid robes they wear either... BUT did I say I was joining...or would you prefer me to do a Arthur Pink & just stay home.

Ive already told the guy my theology & I told him Im not changing. I also hold to Credo Baptism & Im not budging there either. I will just have to instruct them of their errors ..... In time, I will turn the "hole" place Calvinistic.

 

[Allan]

Yes I am "DEEPLY DEFINITE ATONEMENT" & as a side note, I dont like the stupid robes they wear either... BUT did I say I was joining...or would you prefer me to do a Arthur Pink & just stay home.

Ive already told the guy my theology & I told him Im not changing. I also hold to Credo Baptism & Im not budging there either. I will just have to instruct them of their errors ..... In time, I will turn the "hole" place Calvinistic.

LOL.. I understand. However I would encourage you not to stay home but to unite yourself with other believers. I hope it goes well with you though. May you find a home with others, who house themselves in God.

 

[Iconoclast]

BTW, I find nothing in Scripture that says our ministries have to be sanctioned by or connected to a local church.

Do you find...para church ministries....in the bible?

Do you find anyone operating outside the authority of a local church?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you find...para church ministries....in the bible?

Do you find anyone operating outside the authority of a local church?

LOL.... Do you find trucks in the bible Tony? If not why do you make your living as a truck driver. You should be driving a donkey (name him Dominick) :laugh:

Seriously brother....too legalistic.

 

[Iconoclast]

LOL.... Do you find trucks in the bible Tony? If not why do you make your living as a truck driver. You should be driving a donkey (name him Dominick) :laugh:

Seriously brother....too legalistic.

Or...perhaps .....biblical.????
Ex 25

8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

1 tim3

14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth

EWF...
Where do you see any para church group in scripture.....not under oversight of elders?This is not legalistic...but a biblical question.

 

[mont974x4]

There is no evidence that Dorcas (Tabitha) performed her ministry under the authority of the church, yet she was well-loved and effective. There is also no evidence that Apollos, Priscilla or Aquila were under direct authority of a local church concerning their ministries.


I am reminded of this exchange:
Luk 9:49 John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."
Luk 9:50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you." (NASB)

 

[Iconoclast]

There is no evidence that Dorcas (Tabitha) performed her ministry under the authority of the church, yet she was well-loved and effective. There is also no evidence that Apollos, Priscilla or Aquila were under direct authority of a local church concerning their ministries.


I am reminded of this exchange:
Luk 9:49 John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."
Luk 9:50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you." (NASB)

No one is saying christians should not serve God everyday. These are individuals...not para church ministries.Even your examples here in this post were church members...not lone rangers....:wavey::thumbs:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

And on another note...WHERE in the Bible do we find ANY biblical justification or call to form OR align with such entities as "local associations, state conventions and/or SBC",etc. ? I think the case could more easily be made IN FAVOR of Independent/Baptist(ic)/Non-denominational/Bible Churches rather than any of those. As for para-church ministries, such as Rescue Missions,Tract ministries,etc... I personally think that they are far better off and less subject to doctrinal issues and problems if they are operated under the auspices of a local church ministry. That said, there are many unaffiliated para-church ministries (for instance..the venerable Pacific Garden Mission in Chicago) that do a wonderful Gospel work and are worthy of support.(In my opinion)
By the way...just a reminder...there will be NO DENOMINATIONS in Heaven! Amen? Comments anyone??

Great thread Gina!! Thanks!

bro.Greg

That's right because there will only be Landmark Baptists! Or if a few others do sneak in, the Landmarkers won't fellowship with them.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Yes I am "DEEPLY DEFINITE ATONEMENT" & as a side note, I dont like the stupid robes they wear either... BUT did I say I was joining...or would you prefer me to do a Arthur Pink & just stay home.

Ive already told the guy my theology & I told him Im not changing. I also hold to Credo Baptism & Im not budging there either. I will just have to instruct them of their errors ..... In time, I will turn the "hole" place Calvinistic.

On the other hand, vestments can make people equal, and they also take away the need for lots of expensive suits.

 

[12strings]

And on another note...WHERE in the Bible do we find ANY biblical justification or call to form OR align with such entities as "local associations, state conventions and/or SBC",etc. ?

I also will second Allan's point that there does seem to be cooperation between churches in the New testament, jointly supporting missionaries, collections being taken in one church to send to another struggling church, Pastors of churches corresponding about ministry issues, and even a central group of leaders making some judgement calls about divisive issues (Jerusalem council).

 

[12strings]

On the other hand, vestments can make people equal, and they also take away the need for lots of expensive suits.

Only if every person in the church wears a vestment, right?

 

[12strings]

Ive already told the guy my theology & I told him Im not changing. I also hold to Credo Baptism & Im not budging there either. I will just have to instruct them of their errors ..... In time, I will turn the "hole" place Calvinistic.

You do realize that there are those who would argue that lutherans are much more calvinistic than you, with your credo-baptist radical-reformation leanings!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Only if every person in the church wears a vestment, right?

I never could understand why Baptists and evangelicals thought it was okay for everyone to wear robes except the pastor.

I think every pastor should buy a $50 white alb and preach in it every week; that way, he/she could wear jeans and tennis shoes and it wouldn't matter. I've got a simple white alb and beautiful red stole with a dove emblem. No need to spend $1000 on suits. I've also got a plastic clergy collar that costs about $1; don't have to worry with ties or the cost of them.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Back To The OP!

The origin of every local New Testement church is Jesus Christ. The purpose of the local New Testament church is to carry out His work, which has been so well stated above to include worship, prayer, praise, outreach, helping the poor, visiting the sick, fellowship, worship, praise, cooperating with other churches to carry out the work of the Lord, giving, worship, praise, administering the Lord's Supper and Baptism, worship and praise.

Gina, good thread, edifying, very refreshing.............

Gina...as promised earlier this evening, I would like to return to the OP and add to SaturNeptune's excellent comment only this....One of the greatest purposes I see for the local assembly is the mutual edification of the saints as we not only hold each other accountable in fellowship, (or we should) but that we also build each other up in the faith as we manifest the fruit of the Spirit as listed in Gal.5 as we daily are conformed by the Holy Spirit into the image of our dear Saviour. We need to get as proficient at the art of fellowship as possible. We are going to be spending eternity with each other. I pray the transition from HERE to THERE will hopefully not be more drastic than necessary. Our dear Lord Jesus Christ knows that fellowship between his children is VITAL not only for our relationship with Him but with each other as well. We should WANT to be around like minded believers as often as possible. There is definitely something very wrong if we don't desire that!

Bro.Greg

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You do realize that there are those who would argue that lutherans are much more calvinistic than you, with your credo-baptist radical-reformation leanings!

Yes and there are those who would argue that the RCC is the one true church as well...so what!
Now if you are making reference to universal atonement, I am in total agreement with Spurgeon who said "you are welcome to your atonement ; you may keep it
We will never renounce ours for the sake of it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You do realize that there are those who would argue that lutherans are much more calvinistic than you, with your credo-baptist radical-reformation leanings!

Yes and there are those who would argue that the RCC is the one true church as well...so what!
Now if you are making reference to universal atonement, I am in total agreement with Spurgeon who said "you are welcome to your atonement ; you may keep it
We will never renounce ours for the sake of it."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

On the other hand, vestments can make people equal, and they also take away the need for lots of expensive suits.

Who wears suits Today. BTW you can by one "if you must" at Sears for under $200.00.