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DHK said:Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
The key is "the key of knowledge."
The Pharisees and lawyers kept it away from the Jews for years. The key of knowledge, specifically, was the knowledge of how to get to heaven, or that of eternal life. They were "hindering them from entering in."
Thus the key of knowledge is now the gospel. Without the gospel no one can enter into heaven. This "key" was given not only to Peter but to all the Apostles (Mat.16:19; 18:18,19).
But that commission, now known as the Great Commission, has been given to us all.
Is looks like Jesus had this in mind and He was putting Peter in charge and this becomes more obvious when read with John 21:15-17. We still have the question, "In charge of what?" Was it the church militant or the church triumphant? Both perhaps? Or, for you dispensational premillenialists, was it the millenial kingdom?15Thus says the Lord GOD of hosts,
"Come, go to this steward,
To Shebna, who is in charge of the royal household,
. . . .
19"I will depose you from your office,
And I will pull you down from your station.
20"Then it will come about in that day,
That I will summon My servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah,
21And I will clothe him with your tunic
And tie your sash securely about him.
I will entrust him with your authority,
And he will become a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
22"Then I will set the key of the house of David on his shoulder,
When he opens no one will shut,
When he shuts no one will open.
Actaully, when you read this in the Greek the phrasing is quite interesting.Followeroftheway said:What does the binding and loosing portion of that mean?
"These" regarding 'these keys' is speaking of the keys of death and hell. Jesus will give to Peter the keys of heaven but no where do we find Jesus giving any other keys to anyone else.Allan said:An interesting point to consider here is that Jesus spoke about the gates of hell or death itself (which encompasses both the physcial and spiritual realmsl) and that Jesus Himself in Revelation declares to have the keys of hell and death. So the point I'm making is that Jesus is simply saying that hell does and will not have the authority from God to stop the work of CHrist. Also we never find Jesus giving 'these' keys to anyone else. Yet He does give the keys of heaven to Peter and we find also later on to the other apostles as well.
For [1] - When I state 'allow access' it is not to mean he is the one who decides to go to heaven or not but that it will be through him that God will tell him where to send the gospel message.Sorry.. back to the context... Jesus then declares to Peter that He will give to him the keys of heaven and that whatever is loosed on earth will have already been loosed in heaven and whatever is bound on earth will have already been bound in heaven. We must keep this in context with the preceding passage speaking of Christ building His church (which means He has the keys -authority) and hell not be allowed to stop Him. [1] So here we have Peter being given authority regarding heaven much more aptly put authority to allow access to heaven. Now in context this isn't refering to individuals but on a larger scale of peoples just as Jesus context establishes. Jesus will build it and Peter (as well as the other apostles) will govern the sending out of the gospel or not to peoples. And they will know where to send or withhold because it will already be known and so ordered in heaven from whence God instructs them.
Peter was not always in charge.Zenas said:All these explanations are certainly possibilities, although I think Ryrie forces a meaning that is not possible if you regard the plain syntax of the passage. I believe the keys are a symbol of authority right out of Isaiah 22. Is looks like Jesus had this in mind and He was putting Peter in charge and this becomes more obvious when read with John 21:15-17. We still have the question, "In charge of what?" Was it the church militant or the church triumphant? Both perhaps? Or, for you dispensational premillenialists, was it the millenial kingdom?
You wil search my post in vain for any assertion that Peter was always in charge. However, even a casual reading of the N.T. shows that Peter was the most respected, most listened to, most written about and best known of the apostles.DHK said:Peter was not always in charge.
It was Peter who said: "I go a fishing," with an attitude of almost giving up and going back to a secular job rather than following Christ.
It was Peter that denied the Lord three times.
It was Peter that was rebuked by Paul, and had to be put in his proper place by Paul in Gal. 2.
How can you say that Peter was always always in charge? He wasn't. In fact Christ rebuked that kind of presumptuous when He was on earth. They were equals.
At the Jerusalem counsel, it was Peter who ended the debate when he stood and talked.
James was presiding over the council and indeed he did stop the debate, but only after Peter spoke. In fact we don't know what anyone said except Peter and James. Like I said, Peter got a lot more press than the others. Comparing Peter to any of the other apostles (except perhaps John) is like comparing Abraham Lincoln to Martin VanBuren. One is prominent, the other is obscure.Thinkingstuff said:I though James proclaimed the end of the debate.
You forgot it was Peter who went Fishing
It was Peter who cut off the soldiers ear
It was Peter who who denied Christ three times
It was Peter who cursed
It was Peter who was most confussed
It was Peter who didn't trust Paul at their first meeting
It was Peter Who wouldn't go to Cornelius house because they ate unclean foods
Sorry, my mischeivousness got the better of me.
Zenas said:James was presiding over the council and indeed he did stop the debate, but only after Peter spoke. In fact we don't know what anyone said except Peter and James. Like I said, Peter got a lot more press than the others. Comparing Peter to any of the other apostles (except perhaps John) is like comparing Abraham Lincoln to Martin VanBuren. One is prominent, the other is obscure.
Jim1999 said:Whilst all these things are true about Peter, showing that the churchs are filled with people full of sins, but saved by grace.
It doesn't, however, negate the fact that Jesus is addressing Peter in Matthew when He calls him the rock (pebble, as it were, depending on how one translates Petro and petras) and gives him (Peter) the keys to the kingdom and upon this tock of Peter Christ would build the church.
Cheers,
Jim
My, you certainly are a "Peter-fan" aren't you?Zenas said:James was presiding over the council and indeed he did stop the debate, but only after Peter spoke. In fact we don't know what anyone said except Peter and James. Like I said, Peter got a lot more press than the others. Comparing Peter to any of the other apostles (except perhaps John) is like comparing Abraham Lincoln to Martin VanBuren. One is prominent, the other is obscure.
No actually there isn't a strong suggestion of it. Only 2 vague references from 2 early church fathers that Matthew had wrtten the gospel in "Aramaic" but even then it does not suggest it was only written in Aramaic because he could very well have written one or more in various languages such as Greek and Hebrew. Greek was the comman language of the day due to Roman rule and commerce. If there are any two languages most probable that Matthew's gospel was written in it would be either Hebrew or Greek. And since Greek was the most used it would be more likely to be the original and thus more widely read by the many different Jews who were and would be saved.Thinkingstuff said:Still a strong suggestion that possibly used Kepha rather than Petros.
Allan said:No actually there isn't a strong suggestion of it. Only 2 vague references from 2 early church fathers that Matthew had wrtten the gospel in "Aramaic" but even then it does not suggest it was only written in Aramaic because he could very well have written one or more in various languages such as Greek and Hebrew. Greek was the comman language of the day due to Roman rule and commerce. If there are any two languages most probable that Matthew's gospel was written in it would be either Hebrew or Greek. And since Greek was the most used it would be more likely to be the original and thus more widely read by the many different Jews who were and would be saved.
However the fact is what we have is the Greek manuscripts and even IF Matthew's gospel was written in Aramaic those who translated it did so appropriately in referencing this word. To assume the term "Kepha" (Aramaic) was used without discriptors like large and or small is be dogmatic about something which is absolutely unprovable.
The point is that you can drop this argument: "Jesus was most likely speaking in Aramaic." It is pure speculation on your part, and therefore has no real bearing on the debate at hand. There is no need even to bring it up. The NT MSS are written in Greek, inspired in Greek. And that is what we must go by.Thinkingstuff said:Just because I stated that I believe Jesus used Kepha rather than Petros has no baring on the Keys its just a point of fact. whether or not Matthew wrote in Greek or Hebrew doesn't bare on the point that Jesus was most likely speaking in Aramaic. You could argue he was speaking in Hebrew which is fine. I just think its not as likely since Hebrew of Jesus day resembles in some respect latin of today. Primarily the high priestly and legal language of the day. I don't see it being a great argument for or against either side of the Peter issue.
DHK said:The point is that you can drop this argument: "Jesus was most likely speaking in Aramaic." It is pure speculation on your part, and therefore has no real bearing on the debate at hand. There is no need even to bring it up. The NT MSS are written in Greek, inspired in Greek. And that is what we must go by.
Nothing has been inspired since the autographs. Only the original autographs were inspired. Most Baptist statement of faiths will state this (that are non-KJVO). You should research this topic in the Versions Forum. Translations are not inspired.Thinkingstuff said:How many things have you speculated on in scripture? I would disagree with you on a point from your statment which I bolded. What we must go by are the text which we have that are exant. We know for sure the documents exist in Greek but that does not mean that there werent documents in Hebrew or aramaic. There are just none that are exant as far as we know. Just like the Qumran find showed a few interesting points about scriptures. I believe the words when spoken by Jesus were inspired. Do you believe that the modern translations are inspired? Or just the original text? If just the original text that are inspired non are exant so nothing is considered inspired since the autographs.