What are your main concerns?

Aki,

You made a lot of very good points. Calvinism and Arminianism are not all that important. Study the Bible, God's Word, and you will form the correct theology.

Warmly,

Ray Berrian, Th.D.

 

Sept. 21 10:10 p.m.

Chappie,

You are exactly right!

 

The biggest single problem with Arminianism is that it makes salvation dependent upon blind luck - lucky enough to be born in a certain place to hear the gospel, to hear just the right words at the right time by the right person, lucky enough to be smart enough to respond to the gospel, lucky enough not to have been born as Adolf Hitler, or Joseph Stalin, etc., etc., etc.

God is in control, Chappie. The sooner a person realizes that and accepts it the better off he will be.

Ken

 

Ken Hamilton,

Sept. 10:43 p.m.

Biblical minded people of both persuasions believe that salvation is by grace alone. We do not steal God's honor because we believe that God calls for our belief and trust in Him. Trusting in a system does not save. Hoping that one is an elect does not necessarily certify everlasting life.

You people give us the idea that God really doesn't have any interest in our believing and trusting in Him. Correct me, if you think otherwise. God won't hit you with a ruler across the nuckles if you do trust His plan.

 

Ken Hamilton,

You and I have the option to go and evangelize these pagan nations. This is His mandate to Christians. Then, people in these pagan nations will hear His call.

Yes, we were fortunate to be born in America and to have heard the Gospel. This is not the fault of Arminianism or Calvinism. As you would say, it has something to do with His sovereignty; and you are right.

 

Ken said:

... Isn't that the outrun the devil before you die theology.

Or as the Irish say may you be in heaven thirty minutes before the devil knows you are dead!... Brother Glen

 

I've already explained why I believe Scripturally more will be saved than lost - including babies. But I understand that when one has a man-based salvation system that one would believe that more people are lost than saved.

Ken </font>[/QUOTE]Rationalizing the issue is not profitable. Bottom line has to be; from your perspective, more are not chosen than is chosen...

Btw. I posted scripture, what does your short sightedness as to what i believe have to do with it. The scriptures were very specific, very plain to me. Do you not understand them of is it you just do not believe them?

 

God is indeed in charge, i can see that even you realize that. Now, as soon as you stop trying to tell God how he has to run his business in order to be in control, the better off the whole human race will be...

Before you attempt to judge me, remove that beam from your own eye. You spend as much time imposing your theology on God as anyone else does, yet what i glean from the scriptures is reconciled with the loving, just and holy nature of God revealed in scripture.

As for your theology, you have God sitting around all day pumping iron, showing of his abs and bicepts.

God is Love, God is just. You fellas are on a power hungry spiritual field trip. Burning people is not the only way that God has to demonstrate that he is in control.

GOD IS NOT ALL ABOUT POWER, GOD IS NOT ALL ABOUT CONTROL. LOVING RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT BUILT ON POWER AND CONTROL. DICTATORSHIPS ARE.

Oh, that's right; only in election, in everything else man has freewill. Such foolishness....

My heart bleeds because of the way you have to mutilate scripture in order to come up with this ungodly concept of efficacious election. Your zeal is not according to knowledge my friend..

Ken[/qb]</font>[/QUOTE]

[ September 21, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Huh? Why is that? Since when do you get to tell me that I believe, from my perspective, "more are not chosen than is chosen"?

Ken

 

All I can say about this silliness that you wrote, Brother Chappie, is that I hope you have a wonderful life.

By the way, could you edit your bold on your post - someone might think I wrote your tirade. And take my name off of the bottom of it. Thanks.

Ken

[ September 21, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

Huh? Why is that? Since when do you get to tell me that I believe, from my perspective, "more are not chosen than is chosen"?
Ken[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Rolleyes, rolleyes, rolleyes. (giggle) I did not tell you what you believe, i told you waht you said.

You said that all those that go to heaven were chosen to do so by God. God said that more will choose the wrong path and end up in hell. You say God choose, God said we choose. Either way if we cannot chose to go to heaven, we cannot choose to go to hell.. Well, that is, unless there was another option that we could have exercised.

But you fellas do not understand nor employ logic, so God just happened to us, and when God happened, some went to heaven and some went to hell.

That's it, the answer to your respector of persons dellima. God did not choose, God just happened...

Anyway one of Calvin's defenses appears to be, don't tell me what i believe. Ok, Ok, It seems to be as confusing to you as it is to me anyway...

PS.
Ken, I think that that pretty young lady that started this thread had something a little milder in mind. Why don't we ease up and allow her to enjoy her thread.

I can see an effort at reconciliation on her part..

[ September 21, 2002, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Hovering is okay, Abiyah.

Actually, I think your question is a difficult one to answer because any system can be forced too far in one direction or the other, not due so much to the fault of the system itself, but due to the imperfect human beings who buy into the system.

The real question is which one is scriptural. And to find that out, the best route is probably to study it for yourself. Or get a book or two.

We often produce more heat than light around here. If you have any questions about Calvinism, you could PM me. And I am sure there are those who are of the Arminian persuasion who would be willing to answer your questions privately as well. That way you would avoid the sort of tit for tat that many of us here actually enjoy, but could certainly be a mite confusing.

[ September 22, 2002, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

It seems to be the culture of this board...

I don't understand it either

AITB

 

Excellant:
The only book that is pro bible is the bible. Any seculear books that you read that attempts to express scripture has already been docturinalized.

If I am Arminian, and i recomend to you a good book to read on scriptures, you can bet that it promotes my agenda.

Gleen your conclusions from God's word, anyway, why would one need book #2, to tell you what is said in book #1. Why would one believe that they can understand either book will enough to tell them what is said in another book.

God gave us scriptures, intending that we understand, if you are willing to accept that either God said it or he didn't, the bible becomes simplier and easier to read each time you open it's pages.

This, and any theology board for that matter, is a terrible place to form docturine. Have you not noticed, there are no students here; only teachers. And we all teach a different gospel.

 

Chappie,

I still think you are trying to put words in my mouth. But to let this thread go in its intended direction, let's settle this like men. Let's meet behind the barn - Scripture verses at 10 paces.

And let's sell tickets to see: The War to Settle the Score! or The Brawl to Settle It All!

Ken

 

Chappie,

I still think you are trying to put words in my mouth. But to let this thread go in its intended direction, let's settle this like men. Let's meet behind the barn - Scripture verses at 10 paces.

And let's sell tickets to see: The War to Settle the Score! or The Brawl to Settle It All!

Ken</font>[/QUOTE]Can we have fellowship and "dinner" at your house after.

[ September 22, 2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Only if you like dogs. We have 7.

Ken