What can I learn about Individual Growth, Evangelism and Church Growth...

Nice way to skirt questions you do not want to answer, Joseph. What so called history and apocalyptice literature out there helps you understand TULIP as derived from the Bible?

 

It's obvious you will not give an honest answer because it would contradict your posts...

 

Take note this is about which author you claim you don't read to learn your reformers point of view...not c/a.

btw...this is a public forum...I will hang out as long as I want, thank you.

 

You...

You say "why not just study the Bible"?
I say...you had to study the work of SOMEONE to come to your reformer view...that view does not just pop off the pages while reading the Bible! NOONE who reads the word "all" "world" and "none" believe in alternate, deeper (albeit false) meanings without having studied the work of a reformer! The reason you do not answer is because it would be hypocritical to give a false front that ALL your "purposes of life" and the hidden truths were learned from the Bible, and that RW and the PDL are not needed for such. That's fine, but don't deliberately try to steer people away from PDL just because you do not like it. I don't steer people away from Macarthur and Piper even though I do not agree some of their major theological points!

btw...if the mods think I am totally off subject, I would want to know!

 

No mention of calvinism in my last post...I'm reporting you to the moderators for including it in your last post...

 

</font>[/QUOTE]You have no idea how arrogant and self righteous that sounds. It must be really nice to be so close to God and have such a great understanding of Scripture that you can't be taught anything else by mere mortal men. So I'm guessing you spend your time locked away in your room reading your Bible. No point going to Sunday School and listening to a SS teacher, after all, they can't show you anything that you can't learn on your own. Same for church. I mean really, what insight could your pastor possibly provide that's not already obvious to you.

As for PDL, it's not a program. It's just a book. It's a book that gives some excellent insight into why God created us and what our purpose for living is, but it's still just a book. RW would not claim anything else. You said that your pastor told everyone to leave their Bibles at home and bring their PDL books to church. Having been through 40DOP twice now, and being the one who preached the messages and led one of the small group Bible studies, that is so far-fetched that I find it pretty much impossible to believe.

 

JB says "However, when it comes to Individual Growth, Evangelism, and Church Growth, I look to the Bible itself as my guide and standard, not a program written by Rick Warren."

So is it just Rick Warren? You said you didn't have a problem with PDL, so I assumed when you said you looked to the Bible itself and not something written by RW, that you would include anything written by anyone else. If this is just about Rick Warren, then I've misunderstood the entire thread. What I hear you saying, pretty clearly, is that you only read the Bible, and you are not interested in insights from anyone else.

Your original question was "what can I learn about personal growth, evangelism or church growth from PDL that I couldn't learn from reading the Bible" (that's from memory, I didn't scroll all the way back to the top) The obvious answer is nothing. Since the PDL is based on the Bible, all it is intended to do is point out truth that already exist, not to reveal any new truth. What Rick Warren is gifted in is taking truth from Scripture and organizing it in a way that makes it easy to understand, especially for those who do not extensive Bible training. (not everyone has the time or inclination to study Hebrew grammer)

And I must say, you calling me rude is one fine example of the pot calling the kettle black. It's amazing to me how many time on this board people post something in plain english, and then swear they said the opposite thing.

 

Dude, I've read what you wrote repeatedly. You do not say what men you listen to or read, but what you wrote implies that you don't read anything any man has written, only the Bible. If you didn't mean that, you should clarify.

I'm sorry that you think I'm being rude. I thought it was one brother pointing out a problem to another brother, something you seem to excell at. As for humility, you don't know me and you have no idea.

40 Days of Purpose could be described as a program. The Purpose Driven Life is just a book.

 

1. There's only 2 kinds, dudes and dudettes

2. English is my primary language and I understand it very well. What you wrote is not hard to understand. Keep on saying it means the opposite. I'm sure you've convinced yourself and if you say it enough, you might convince someone else.

3. If pointing out your arrogance and self righteousness makes me rude, I can live with that.

4. I have had enough experience with legalist and pharisees to last me a lifetime. The fact that one more doesn't want to know me is something else I can live with.

5. You really don't get it. You should refrain from discussing PDL, your ingorance is making you look foolish.

6. Later, dude

 

I would not say this too often and too loudly

Webdog is right about your continual effort to skirt a fundamental point to the one you have raised. Your claim is that PDL is unnecessary to understand individual & church growth and evangelism. That the only thing one needs is the Bible.

The dog is simply asking you to explain your inconsistency in other realms of the Christian life. Actually theological knowledge does qualify under individual growth, so he is actually asking you to defend your own premise. It is a simple request and your failure to address the issue is telling.

 

Original question:

What can I learn about individual growth, evangelism, and church growth in Rick Warren's book, The Purpose Driven Life, that I cannot learn in the Bible?


At least part of the answer:

How to apply the biblical principles to my everyday life in 2005.


Now are you going to tell me you developed a Reformed theology reading straight from the Bible without input or influence from anyone?