What Can We Learn from Penn State?

[Salty]

...I think another mistake he (Coach P) made was that since it wasn't him who saw it and ...

That is the big issue with me! If the coach did not witness it, he is not the one who should go to the police. The individual who saw it should have went. Now, I could see the coach going with the individual to the police....

Also, after it was reported, could it be that Coach was not allowed to "follow up" due to privacy issues?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[webdog]

That is the big issue with me! If the coach did not witness it, he is not the one who should go to the police. The individual who saw it should have went. Now, I could see the coach going with the individual to the police....

Also, after it was reported, could it be that Coach was not allowed to "follow up" due to privacy issues?

Just thinking out loud.

I agree McCreary should have called the police (and not his dad)...but JoPa was also accountable for reporting the crime. Anyone that knows a crime occurs needs to contact the police. The worst thing that happens is the police department receives numerous reports on the same incident. Rather have that than nobody reporting it and keep passing the buck.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

A thought just occurred to me this morning... even before coffee which is a dangerous thing! :tongue3:

One of Coach Paterno's major mistakes was not following up on a complaint. We need to make sure that complaints never fall through the cracks just by doing the minimum.

I think another mistake he made was that since it wasn't him who saw it and he had not done anything wrong, he felt it wouldn't bite him on the butt. We, as leaders, need to know that everything that happens at church comes under our watch as under-shepherds of Christ's flock.

You always have to ask: What if it were MY child? When you do that, you begin to follow up on things more and more.

 

[annsni]

We also do background checks which is handled by one of our deacons who is a retired detective. EVERYONE who volunteers at the church submits to a background check.

The important thing to know is that if there is even a question of impropriety, act on it. Look into it and if it proves to be true, hit the hammer hard. Seeing someone have sexual relations with a child and only telling someone about it and not doing anything else? I'd be on the phone with the police in the locker room NOW - not waiting to see what to do!! I'm sorry but anything like that requires immediate reporting. "Pastor, I just saw Joe touching a child - I am calling the police now and wanted to let you know as well. I have Bill staying with Joe and Mary is with the child until the police arrive." Don't wait!!

 

[annsni]

Interestingly enough, Al Mohler addressed this on his blog today.

http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/11/10/the-tragic-lessons-of-penn-state-a-call-to-action/

 

[preacher4truth]

We also do background checks which is handled by one of our deacons who is a retired detective. EVERYONE who volunteers at the church submits to a background check.

The important thing to know is that if there is even a question of impropriety, act on it. Look into it and if it proves to be true, hit the hammer hard. Seeing someone have sexual relations with a child and only telling someone about it and not doing anything else? I'd be on the phone with the police in the locker room NOW - not waiting to see what to do!! I'm sorry but anything like that requires immediate reporting. "Pastor, I just saw Joe touching a child - I am calling the police now and wanted to let you know as well. I have Bill staying with Joe and Mary is with the child until the police arrive." Don't wait!!

That a man could see such an act, and not intervene immediately is unconscionable! :BangHead:

 

[govteach51]

Here is a question:

In your State (or Province), are you, as a minister or pastor a mandatory informant?

Reason I ask is that my wife is a teacher in the public schools and she is obligated by law to report child abuse to the guidance counselor and nobody else. I wonder at what point she calls the police? I don't know, but I'm going to ask her.

So if we are a mandatory informant, to whom must we report in our particular state?

How is it in your state?

I too was a teacher for 30+ years and a situation like this came up when teaching at a district I taught in during the 1990s.( A district employee was involved with an underage girl, high school age. 14 yrs old) I reported it to an administrator and was interviewed by Investigator with the DA's Office.
Nothing happened. It was pretty much covered up by both the school and the county....In the end, I was the bad guy for reporting it. I was a pariah to some in the school and was ostracized by a certain element within the district. The girl's mother was even furious at me for becoming involved. Eventually, I left the school for another district( To a GREAT much smaller district. Literally, I believe God sent me there.) and the accused wound up coaching in another school where he was arrested doing the same thing to another little girl 7 years later.
Would I do what I did again? Yes.

 

[annsni]

That a man could see such an act, and not intervene immediately is unconscionable! :BangHead:

Seriously.

 

[Skandelon]

Everyone in the media has been talking about if the coach should finish the year or not, but I think they should be talking about if he should go to prison or not. He covered up a heinous crime for the benefit of his team!!!

What kind of society have we become where a man can cover up the crime of another so as to benefit his sports team and get away with merely getting fired? How many children have suffered because nothing was done? Shameful!!!

 

[freeatlast]

We have a highly developed child protection policy with zero tolerance for anyone, and we mean anyone, who violates it. We run background checks on all volunteers in children and student ministries and all staff members.

For a church not to have this is asking for trouble. We've turned away four individuals this year who have wanted to help with children's ministry but had problems. They disappeared from our church. I pray they are likewise screened elsewhere.

That is fine if the person has a past but it does nothing for the rest who do not as every individual is a possible violator. I know when ever I counsel I NEVER meet with any person unless they bring a friend or there is someone who is within sight at all times. The same should be policy with students.

 

[freeatlast]

Everyone in the media has been talking about if the coach should finish the year or not, but I think they should be talking about if he should go to prison or not. He covered up a heinous crime for the benefit of his team!!!

What kind of society have we become where a man can cover up the crime of another so as to benefit his sports team and get away with merely getting fired? How many children have suffered because nothing was done? Shameful!!!

I agree if the evidence shows he violated the law. I felt that way about the Catholics church who was covering this all up for years, but I guess some are just above the law, at least on earth.

 

[Tom Bryant]

That a man could see such an act, and not intervene immediately is unconscionable! :BangHead:

I agree, but as of now, he will still be a coach this weekend.

That is the big issue with me! If the coach did not witness it, he is not the one who should go to the police. The individual who saw it should have went. Now, I could see the coach going with the individual to the police....

Also, after it was reported, could it be that Coach was not allowed to "follow up" due to privacy issues?

Just thinking out loud.

Salty,
I understand what you are saying, but if you or I learned that a grown man was doing anything with a 10 yo child, we wouldn't stop following it up regardless of privacy issues.

We also do background checks which is handled by one of our deacons who is a retired detective. EVERYONE who volunteers at the church submits to a background check.

The important thing to know is that if there is even a question of impropriety, act on it. Look into it and if it proves to be true, hit the hammer hard. Seeing someone have sexual relations with a child and only telling someone about it and not doing anything else? I'd be on the phone with the police in the locker room NOW - not waiting to see what to do!! I'm sorry but anything like that requires immediate reporting. "Pastor, I just saw Joe touching a child - I am calling the police now and wanted to let you know as well. I have Bill staying with Joe and Mary is with the child until the police arrive." Don't wait!!

That is what we say to do. Make sure the child is safe, first. Second, don't let me near the pervert.

 

[annsni]

We do the same thing freeatlast. Women counseling women, men counseling men, if for some reason a man has to counsel a woman, another woman needs to be in the room. I've been that person at times. We also have our youth office with windows looking out to the gym so any counseling going on in there is always in the open. You can't be too careful today - not even for the other person but for our own staff to be protected from accusations!

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree, but as of now, he will still be a coach this weekend.



Salty,
I understand what you are saying, but if you or I learned that a grown man was doing anything with a 10 yo child, we wouldn't stop following it up regardless of privacy issues.



That is what we say to do. Make sure the child is safe, first. Second, don't let me near the pervert.

When my brother and I were growing up, we had no Dad, so our Mother went and got us a Big Brother. That went over like a lead balloon.

Both of us, even at a young age were taught to beware of such behavior from men by our grandmother. We were also street smart, growing up in a very rough neighborhood with lot's of racist fights, prostitution down the street, drugs, bike gangs and what not. Lessons were taught I would never trade, even though we went through some rough periods and tough times.

To make a long story short, this Big Brother perv attempted to "make a move." We reported him and he was ousted immediately from the organization. :thumbsup: :laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

We do the same thing freeatlast. Women counseling women, men counseling men, if for some reason a man has to counsel a woman, another woman needs to be in the room. I've been that person at times. We also have our youth office with windows looking out to the gym so any counseling going on in there is always in the open. You can't be too careful today - not even for the other person but for our own staff to be protected from accusations!

I had a woman that insisted I counsel her on her own concerning some marriage problems. After many attempts I agreed, all the while a deacon behind the door with glass sidelights witnessed it all (in the connecting office). Oh, btw, we figured this was some kind of attempted set-up so he agreed to watch. She and her husband promptly reported some lies concerning this session. My deacon stood up and said that he witnessed the entire session, which he did, and what they said was untrue. They both left utterly embarrassed.

Be careful preachers.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Everyone in the media has been talking about if the coach should finish the year or not, but I think they should be talking about if he should go to prison or not. He covered up a heinous crime for the benefit of his team!!!

What kind of society have we become where a man can cover up the crime of another so as to benefit his sports team and get away with merely getting fired? How many children have suffered because nothing was done? Shameful!!!

You may want to check your facts about this. Coach Paterno reported it and left it at that. There is nothing he is legally culpable for. Morally and ethically, he has something to answer for.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I don't think so Tom. Paterno reported up the chain of administration, he never reported it to the campus police. That's what allowed for the cover up. Not reporting it to the police!

Anyone from the witness on up the chain could have called the police and maybe, just maybe, the chain of victims would be much shorter. But no one did and they all deserve to lose their jobs. They should be glad they aren't charged as accessories to the crimes. And that pretty much includes the original witness, though he was awfully young and can credibly claim he didn't know he should have reported it differently than he did. I bet even he wishes now that he'd gone straight to the cops.

 

[webdog]

You may want to check your facts about this. Coach Paterno reported it and left it at that. There is nothing he is legally culpable for. Morally and ethically, he has something to answer for.

According to the incompetent AG...and it was qualified with "for now". I'd be willing to bet he will be indicted and everyone who knew about it due to the national outrage taking place. Not reporting a crime IS a legal issue.

 

[freeatlast]

We do the same thing freeatlast. Women counseling women, men counseling men, if for some reason a man has to counsel a woman, another woman needs to be in the room. I've been that person at times. We also have our youth office with windows looking out to the gym so any counseling going on in there is always in the open. You can't be too careful today - not even for the other person but for our own staff to be protected from accusations!

Ann I take it even further. I will not even do counseling with a man unless there is someone with them or we are in a place where someone is setting outside watching through a window everything that goes on.I would also suggest that all counseling be audio recorded with the persons permission or no counseling.

 

[annsni]

Ann I take it even further. I will not even do counseling with a man unless there is someone with them or we are in a place where someone is setting outside watching through a window everything that goes on.I would also suggest that all counseling be audio recorded with the persons permission or no counseling.

Unfortunately, that is the way it needs to be today, isn't it?