What Constitutes a Bona Fide Offer?

[Silverhair]

In your parable, the man staked to the ground and in chains has no desire to change his condition, regardless of the King’s offer.

He has already rejected the king, which is why he is in chains.

When God Holy Spirit releases the man from his chains, he recognizes the estate he was in and the value of the King’s offer and responds with faith.

Mankind is not in a “neutral” condition, able to accept or reject the offer. God’s revelation of Himself has already been rejected by every person on the planet.

Unless God intervenes through the power of God Hoky Spirit, all remain incapable of responding with faith to the gospel call.

Peace to you

But God has intervened. We are told man has no excuse as God has shown who He is through creation. The Holy Spirit convicts the whole world of their sin. The gospel message has been and is still being proclaimed to the world.

If God did not think man was capable of responding to these various means of drawing all to Himself, as Jesus said, then why does He say we have no excuse?

Man being sinful does not mean that he is unable to respond to these various means that God uses.

 

[Paleouss]

In your parable, the man staked to the ground and in chains has no desire to change his condition, regardless of the King’s offer.

He has already rejected the king, which is why he is in chains.

Greetings to you canadyjd. I hope you and your family are well.

It would seem that this OP is experiencing a reoccurring problem with those that are lumping Salvation in with the Gospel offer. Maybe I need to inquire into your position a little more before I proceed.

(a) Do you hold to the Calvinist belief that there is an 'outer call' and also an 'inner call'? (notice I'm using the word 'call').

(b) Do you hold to the Calvinist belief that God makes a bona fide offer to all mankind?

If you answer no to both of these questions, then I see why you are answering the way you are.

Peace to you brother

 

[canadyjd]

Greetings to you canadyjd. I hope you and your family are well.

And to you as well

It would seem that this OP is experiencing a reoccurring problem with those that are lumping Salvation in with the Gospel offer. Maybe I need to inquire into your position a little more before I proceed.

Not sure the point you are making here. Salvation is distinct from the proclamation of the gospel, but cannot be secured without it. Salvation is being in a right relationship with God, free from the wrath and condemnation for all without such a relationship.

(a) Do you hold to the Calvinist belief that there is an 'outer call' and also an 'inner call'? (notice I'm using the word 'call').

I haven’t studied Calvin in particular. You seem to using “call” as synonymous with “drawing”. Drawing is the work of God Holy Spirit and is done according to God’s will.

(b) Do you hold to the Calvinist belief that God makes a bona fide offer to all mankind?….

God has offered all mankind salvation through the revelation of Himself in creation in general and in the OT Law in particular, all of mankind has rejected His offer and stand condemned unless and until God intervenes in their lives.

Hope that clears up what I believe

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

double post

Peace to you

 

[Paleouss]

God has offered all mankind salvation through the revelation of Himself in creation in general and in the OT Law in particular, all of mankind has rejected His offer and stand condemned unless and until God intervenes in their lives.

This, above.

So you would hold that God does offer salvation to all and that offer is a bona fide offer. The next step is discussing what makes an offer 'bona fide' and what makes an offer 'not bona fide?

I haven’t studied Calvin in particular.

That's sad. But I find its not uncommon. The very foundation of the Reformed movement, nobody today reads.

Just a taste of John Calvin (THE Calvinist).

“To all this I answer, That God indeed favors none but the elect alone with the Spirit of regeneration, and that by this they are distinguished from the reprobate; for they are renewed after his image and receive the earnest of the Spirit in hope of the future inheritance, and by the same Spirit the Gospel is sealed in their hearts. But I cannot admit that all this is any reason why he should not grant the reprobate also some taste of his grace, why he should not irradiate their minds with some sparks of his light, why he should not give them some perception of his goodness, and in some sort engrave his word on their hearts. Otherwise, where would be the temporal faith mentioned by Mark 4:17 ? (Calvin Commentaries Hebrews 6:4)

Of course, John Calvin does not espouse to the full effects of the grace of God toward the reprobate. But he does admit that the reprobate get a taste (as he sees scripture telling us). John Calvin tells us that John means to say in 1John,

“they who fall away had never been thoroughly imbued with the knowledge of Christ, but had only a light and a transient taste of it. (Calvin Commentaries 1John 2:19).

So Calvin says that the reprobate, those that fell away, were only "imbued" lightly or had a "transient taste. So it is clear, "imbued" means "inspire or permeate with". In other words, he's saying that those reprobate that showed an outward faith but then fell away were only lightly inspired or lightly permeated by the knowledge of Christ (by permeated he means their hearts). And of course, according to Calvin, no man is enlightened through his own intellect. It is always a work of grace, if even ever so small.

Have to go

Peace to you brother

 

[canadyjd]

I don’t see the need to qualify the gospel as “a bona fide offer” or not a “bona fide” offer of salvation. The very premise presupposes we judge God for the way in which He has chosen to bring His elect to salvation.

The preaching of the gospel is the God ordained means by which the elect shall be brought into the Kingdom. (1 Corinthians)

It is true all who respond with faith in Jesus will be saved. It is also true none desire to respond with faith unless God Holy Spirit works regeneration upon the person which allows them to understand the truth and respond with faith. All so worked upon respond with faith, without fail.

Again, we don’t begin in a “neutral” condition. Every person has already rejected God and stand condemned, unable to respond because their rebellion has enslaved them to sin.

That God has chosen some for salvation and then so moved upon them to reconcile that relationship is testimony to His love and grace

Peace to you

 

[Paleouss]

Greetings

I don’t see the need to qualify the gospel as “a bona fide offer” or not a “bona fide” offer of salvation. The very premise presupposes we judge God for the way in which He has chosen to bring His elect to salvation.

I would agree if it were the case that we all knew and agreed upon 'how' 'who' and 'why' God chose to offer. Then yes, we all might be accused of judging God's good pleasure in that case. I underlined the word 'might' because I believe the very structure of this world is a developmental stage that God uses for our good and God desires us to know the why and how through His holy word to us. It gets us to understand Him and His awesomeness in justice and mercy.

So the inquiry isn't into if "God so pleased". The question is "how did God so please".

However, we do not all agree on God's offer. Some don't even believe God makes an offer to the reprobate. Thus, we are not evaluating or judging God when we explore how His offer is bona fide. We are measuring the exegesis, words, and theology of all who assert a theology of what God's word says through evaluating what the Bible says regarding God's offer.

1. God's says He is not only the "justifier" of mankind but also says He is "just" (Rom 3:26) when doing so.
2. A person's theology suggests that God's offer of salvation is 'x'.
3. What does God's word say that explains how His offer of salvation is bona fide so that we can then measure #2 to it?
4. If #2 doesn't match #1 and #3 then #2 is false.

We are judging the theology of ourselves and others through prayer, evaluation and exegesis of what God has told us is His offer and why He tells us through His word that it is bona fide.

Again, we don’t begin in a “neutral” condition

I think everyone who has responded to this OP believes this. Including me.

Every person has already rejected God and stand condemned,

Here you might be putting the cart before the horse. Im not sure. What I mean is, to "reject God" then something must be present to be "rejected". I'm not denying Total Depravity (at least some definitions of it). I'm questioning what you mean when you say 'we all have already rejected" God. In other words, if we are talking about an offer and you say, we have already rejected God before the offer. I wonder what you mean by this.

and stand condemned

right, John 3:18.

unable to respond

Here is another point in which I wonder what you mean. You are suggesting that mankind is dead in sin (we agree), unable to pull himself out of the pit of sin (we agree). But you add..."unable to respond". May I ask what you mean by this? What exactly can they not respond to? Are you meaning to say that they are unable to respond to God's offer that He intends for them?

I agree that mankind is in Total Depravity (we may differ on what this means). I also agree, if you hold it, that at some point a man gets even worse and God then turns them over to their own vile sin (Rom 1:24, Psalm 81:12). But I don't know where in the Bible is says that mankind cannot respond when God gives an offer? Could you provide verses for this if you would?

Good conversation.

Peace and Hope through Christ our Lord, brother

 

[Van]

I was contemplating what would make a bona fide offer to the unbelieving. What do you think?

1. One must not be under some other dominion, power, or influence (power and dominion).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered is chained in the opposing kingdom and the one who offers does nothing to remove the chains of the one offered. Is this a bona fide offer?

2. I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered (enlightenment, illumination).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered hears nonsense like this, “keinfei$3k 3dknvv8”. Is this a bona fide offer?

3. I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept (freedom).

If the above points, 1 & 2, are satisfied, it seems that desiring and choosing to accept or reject is sufficient.

4. In every case, without fail, what is being offered is granted if the conditions are met.

5. In every case, without fail, the consequences of a rejection of the offer is “just”.


Peace to you brothers

Great Post!!!

One nit pick: "Desiring and choosing to accept or reject is sufficient." Who decides if the acceptance is valid or lip service. Demons believe Jesus is God, but do not commit to make Him Lord of their life. Many people are like soil #2 in Matthew 13, they accept the gospel with joy, but when hardship arises in following Christ, they fall away. Their faith in Christ was not deep seated. Soil #3 believed in Christ, but also earthly treasures, Jesus was not the overriding priority of their life.

So I would rewrite your statement as "...desiring and choosing to accept, as discerned by God alone, is sufficient for election to salvation. Anything less results in continued condemnation.

 

[canadyjd]

I would agree if it were the case that we all knew and agreed upon 'how' 'who' and 'why' God chose to offer.

Again, you use the word “offer”. God acts according to His will and good pleasure. The gospel is presented. God Holy Spirit intervenes in the lives of the elect, regenerating, convicting, drawing so that they will respond with faith in Jesus.

God acts. He’s not “offering” as you are presenting it.. He is acting, leading, drawing, convicting.

…..
So the inquiry isn't into if "God so pleased". The question is "how did God so please".

The answer is God was well pleased through the power of the message preached…. (1 Corinthians).

…What I mean is, to "reject God" then something must be present to be "rejected".

Romans 1 states God presented the knowledge of Himself in His creation. That is worthy of worship. All mankind rejected His revelation, rejected God as revealed in His creation, and worship the creation instead of the creator. By doing so, all stand condemned.

…
Here is another point in which I wonder what you mean. You are suggesting that mankind is dead in sin (we agree), unable to pull himself out of the pit of sin (we agree). But you add..."unable to respond". May I ask what you mean by this?

I mean that unless God intervenes, all are unable to respond to God’s revelation of Himself through creation (general revelation) or through the gospel of Jesus Christ (special revelation).

Peace to you