What constitutes "marriage"?

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Gina L:

Marcia, I will still attempt to find specific law for you. However, it is fairly easy to find if you're very interested. I simply don't know where the codes are, and believe my friend does and has it saved on his computer, as he was looking it up with the intent of using it to point out how certain actions by the Red Cross discriminate against gays. The laws fall under those of harassment, infliction of emotional distress, etc.. For example, when a man stood outside my window and called my 9 yr. od child a ***re and preceded it with a derogatory name for Asians because he was a racist, I called the police and tried to press assault charges based on racial intimidation, harassment, and for causing our family intentional emotional distress.

...As I said, I will try to have the references to the exact laws, and some examples of case law, by Friday. If you find it yourself before then, let me know and save me the effort, if ya find it in your heart!

Harassment is not the same thing as saying the Mormons are a cult.

There are no laws in the U.S. against calling a group a cult or all my friends in countercult ministries would be in jail!

If there were such a law, it would be on the front page of every newspaper and the featured story on all the news, because the U.S. has the most wide-ranging free speech law in the world. In some European countries, for example, you cannot say anything in support of Nazis, but here you can. You can't foment uprisings but you are free to express your views, no matter what (as long as you are not harassing someone).

So you have not shown that I have violated any laws. I know 100% I can call the Mormons, the JW's, the Eckankar group, etc. cults and I am not breaking any law in doing so.

 

[Frenchy]

Very good post donnA

 

[PJ]

Originally posted by donnA:
One of the most important things is your witness, you are to look and be different then the world around you, the world sees nothing wrong with shacking up, when christians do it they don't look any different and to the unsaved have destroyed their witness, it is now worthless.

How can we possibly teach our children sex outside of marriage is wrong if we approve it ourselves? When we do nothing more then live together, we give approval to that kind of lifestyle.

 

[donnA]

I AM disagreeing with shacking up, because it is nothing more then sin! in disguise all sugar coated to try and make it sound biblical.

 

[Frenchy]

Agreed!

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by blackbird:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gina L:
It works both ways.
My opinion is that when two people decide to be man and wife to each other, they are man and wife.

Whether or not they admit it. There is no "faking" it, it's always real.

You live together, you are intimate , you're married.

I take it a step further and say if you are intimate, you're married. You don't even have to live together. This does not include anything except mutual consent between two people who understand what they are doing.

I don't believe the government has to be involved at all.

I don't believe that the government can perform a spiritually binding marriage.

I don't believe that if the government performs a marriage, it has any automatic validity in the eyes of anyone but those in the physical, earthly courts.

I stand by what I have always said on here...it is not illegal for a man and woman to live as husband and wife without the consent of the court. It's simply not recognized by the courts, and that ain't illegal. A marriage is perfectly valid without the interference/inclusion of the state/courts/other government agencies.

Have I ever mentioned this before?

You live together---you are intimate---your married?????

What you have just described for us is not marriage----its the act of adultery and fornication and is a direct violation of the written laws of God found in the basic ten commandments and is a sin against Almighty God and comes awefully close to blaspheming the written word of God!!! </font>[/QUOTE]Frenchey---take a look at this post!

 

[Frenchy]

Yes Blackbird i saw both post and was wondering how Gina would disagree with what you said.

Your post was for me a foothold to get her to give her definition of FORNICATION and ADULTRY. and she still hasn't. why because she Can't

Why so many are answering back to her instead of calling SIN sin is what i do not understand.(but then again i do) that in itself should end the topic.

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
.........
Why so many are answering back to her instead of calling SIN sin is what i do not understand.(but then again i do) that in itself should end the topic.

I'm not sure you do understand. I disagree with Gina, but I'm trying to have a conversation.
Among many other reasons, just ending the topic as you wish could imply that there are no answers to the questions she has posed.
I try to answer with reasons, although not every possible reason. I don't have time. Nor do most people read lengthy posts anyway.
But I do think conversation can be useful as to WHY we think something is wrong or right.

Gina isn't getting any kind of pass. She has been questioned hard. And few if any that have responded have agreed with her. But you SEEM to want to answer with one-word hammers. It won't convince her any more than it will convince any of the lurkers reading what we post.

Karen

 

[Frenchy]

Among many other reasons, just ending the topic as you wish could imply that there are no answers to the questions she has posed.

the bible says Matt 7:6 "NOT to throw your pearls before SWINE". To have God's precious truth trampled on in the mud

meaning not to argue with someone who condones SIN or tries and justifies it. after it was clear her stance on this issue (about the first page or two) it isn't our job to answer questions, but to point a person saved or not to the truth about what God's word has to say on the matter. this isn't a gray area that can be argued and debated this is flat out SIN!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by donnA:
I forgot to say that if you aren't actually married, then you can not make medical decisions for each other if one of you is not able to make their own decisions, and you can not legally give your child his last name without a legal marriage, people do it all the time but they have to lie to do it too.

Maybe in Kentucky (I doubt it though), but you can name someone anything you want. There is no legal requirement to put any particular surname on a child. As for your other objections, other legal documents than a marriage certificate work as well, such as powers of attorney. States also recognize single dad's rights (as well as holding them responsible for child support).

 

[donnA]

Excuse me, thats the way it is in Ky, a mother gives her child her last name. I know I live here, had 2 children here, and know hundreds of people who have had children here, and the few who gave their child the unmarried fathers last name lied and said they were married.

 

[Gina B]

To Marcia:

Originally posted by Marcia:
I don't think Gina meant the Pharisees' rules or she would have been able to answer me right away, when I asked her what laws Jesus broke.

I stated my thoughts on this quite a while ago. You may find it on page five.

Originally posted by Gina L.:
Marcia: The law for Christ was the Jewish law. The San...you know the spelling, lol, had authority, right? That is what I refer to.

Now, the job of secular government is what? Is it not to punish those that do wrong, to keep laws from being broken? Aren't the only valid laws to be those that keep the law?
What is the law?
The law is to not commit crimes that God tells us not to commit. The enforcement of law is to be for the benefit of the people, to keep them from harm. Is that not what the scriptures tell us, that those in authority have our safety in mind?
Does that ring true in the laws we have today?

I'm losing it a bit here, stretching some things, going beyond even what I really think, but I think these are valid ideas and thoughts. Maybe not what is, but things to think about when considering what to think of it all.

I do think this conversation is becoming more complicated than it needs to be.

The question basically asks about marriage and what makes one.

I answered it.

The idea of marriage is simple.

The real question is not all of this back and forth, the real question is what is marriage, and what constitutes a marriage.

I answered it. Simply.

Now for those who didn't, please do answer it before continuing.

You even answered this reply.
As far as the civil law, if you'd like to apply it in the manner of laws not relating to the San Hedrin, was it not unlawful, and worthy of death, for one to claim they were a higher authority than Caesar?

To Frenchy: You managed to make more posts!

To Blackbird:

You live together---you are intimate---your married?????

What you have just described for us is not marriage----its the act of adultery and fornication and is a direct violation of the written laws of God found in the basic ten commandments and is a sin against Almighty God and comes awefully close to blaspheming the written word of God!!!

I don't believe it is. I believe the sin here would be that the couple does not realize the seriousness of what they have done. In their own eyes they are fornicating, as they have not accepted the responsibilities that come with their actions. This is the type of behavior which I feel is a good description of having thought a sin and committed it, even if it has not actually been committed.

To Aaron: I think you're expressing my thoughts, but doing it better than I am. Keep talking!

 

[Brother Bob]

I cannot believe that Christians would suggest that living together is to be condoned as not being sin, and that comes from Kentucky.

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I cannot believe that Christians would suggest that living together is to be condoned as not being sin, and that comes from Kentucky.

I'm with you, Brother!

Jeremiah says that there are those who do not blush over sin!

 

[Frenchy]

wow another thing Brother Bob and I agree upon are there more days to come I sure hope so

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by blackbird:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I cannot believe that Christians would suggest that living together is to be condoned as not being sin, and that comes from Kentucky.

I'm with you, Brother!

Jeremiah says that there are those who do not blush over sin! </font>[/QUOTE]Isaiah 5:20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

It works both ways Blackbird, but I will not and do not accuse you of calling good evil.

I believe you are mistaken concerning this issue, but not intentionally calling good evil anymore than I intend, am attempting, or have purposed in my heart to change evil to good.

It's a strong accusation. If you're going to level it, I ask that you do so clearly. I'd like to know when I am being accused of such a serious charge.

You have every right to believe that is the case, I simply ask that you be clear if you are referring to me.

 

[Bible-boy]

Frenchy and Gina:

I have just had to edit posts from each of you for making personal attacks against the other. This is not the first time you both have gone after one another in this manner. It is getting a bit old. Please give it a rest. BB posting rule 3 requires you to show grace to your fellow posters and rule 4 prohibits making personal attacks. Consider this your offical warning. Please take more care as you post in the future.

Yours in Christ,

Bible-Boy,
Forum Moderator

 

[Gina B]

Ah shucks. I was hoping it would be at least 24 more hours until someone complained.

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Gina L:
Ah shucks. I was hoping it would be at least 24 more hours until someone complained.

Actually, no one complained about your post. I just noticed it as I was checking the thread because I had received a complaint about another post/poster. We must be fair and even handed ya know.

 

[Frenchy]

I've gotten complaints Bible boy about Gina's and Donna's constant attacks on me. I was called a troll among being accsued of not being who i say i am. all personal attacks. I believe i pmed you about them. show me where i have said anything wrong please?