Featured What determines where you worship?

Do you both believe that Jesus was/is God incarnated?

that his death/resurrection ONLY way to get saved?

That salvation is by Grace alone, thru faith alone?


Did you both receive the same Holy Spirit, Both now in the Body of Christ?

Is He both your Lord?

If yes, then tou and him are in the real church of Christ!

 

Without getting into that debate, as it is off topic, all fundamental articles of faith must be drawn from the Scriptures. The fundamentals are clear in Scripture. Everything essential to saving faith is fundamental. Every doctrine we are forbidden to deny is fundamental. The fundamental doctrines are all summed up in the person and work of Christ.

That said, we both believe Christ died for us. By those standards, what else is necessary? I do not have to believe as you believe to worship with you. In fact, I worship with many who believe as you do. They certainly aren't a majority in any SBC church I know of, but nonetheless, they are there. If you would refuse to worship with me based on my denial of extreme Calvinistic/Reformed teaching, you would be very narrow minded and even somewhat arrogant.

That isn't a doctrinal position, as it is obvious instruments were used in ancient worship, and it is apparent that songs of praise were sung in the First Century church,and whether one were to accept it or not, it is very likely musical instruments were used in those services as well. The Bible does not speak against musical instruments being used in any form of worship of the One True God, and it cannot be said that the lack of evidence of their use in the First Century church is indicative of a "change of heart and practice" by God regarding instruments. So no, you wouldn't be comfortable in my church, but to blame it on "doctrine" is absurd.

No. Simple preference. Again, there is no "doctrine" upon which to base that belief. The Bible is silent about it, so it is impossible to say it is forbidden just as it is impossible to say it is endorsed. It is a matter of preference and practice. Nothing more.

That's a denial of the Great Commission as a command, and is in fact doctrinal -- a direct command from our Savior and Lord. That is, in fact, an unbiblical perspective on your part.

I believe you can surmise that from my previous statement.

FYI, Amos was a prophet to the Northern kingdom of Israel, a nation which many erroneously refer to as "The Lost Tribes" of Israel. They were "lost" but not in the sense that no one can locate them. It is nothing more than a condemnation for unbelief, one that is rectified by believing in Christ as Savior, which is the same belief Abram expressed in the desert under the stars.

You wish to call our differences "doctrinal." Nothing could be further from the truth. But I still love and respect you as a brother in Christ and would worship with you on your terms any time.

 

So the world is laughing at us because we use musical instruments in our worship services? Really? Thanks for telling us. I would have never known otherwise.

Or could it possibly be because we live our lives pretty much as they do while condemning them for not laying aside their sin? Some of which is the same sin we allow into our homes, our lives, even our churches. That's not possible, huh? We judge them as though they are in the church. They aren't. They're sinners. They're doing exactly what sinners do. And we bad-mouth, berate, ever curse them! If you put a sandbox in the yard, you'd better put a cover on it, because cats will do what cats do, and you can't blame them for it. Same with the world. It's lost. It sins. Condemnation is unfruitful. Love, on the other hand, overcomes a great deal.

1 John 3, NASB
18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. ​

This leads up to pure legalistic misguided dogma that results in staid, unhappy, white-knuckle Christianity -- much like "white-knuckle sobriety" that relies on self -- that doggedly clings to its power even after being discredited as misguided and unbiblical. Fortunately it hangs on in ever lesser and fewer venues. It can't die off quickly enough, in my opinion.

Sometime you should ask my wife what fortitude it took in escaping such a church.

 

To make this very short, I will go to church and worship only with Primitive Baptists because what is spoken in the pulpit is agreed to by both the speaker, myself, and the congregation.
I am not ecumenical, or inter-faith, which seems to be today's operative word.

 

Yes we do. Doing so is to commit a grave error, if not outright sin.

Neither am I, which is why I would worship with you in your church. Which leaves two questions:

Do you actually understand those terms?

If so, what could possibly lead you to apply them across denominational lines to me, a Southern Baptist?

 

Sorry. Double post.

 

Well just as long as you are sorry. :smilewinkgrin:

 

I'm sure there are many who are very prepared to tell me just how sorry I am. :laugh:

 

Ok I will start.....


You are so sorry they have to tie a steak around your neck just to get the dog to play with you.

 

Yes, I do.

Because I don't know what you believe. You say you believe in Christ, fine, so do Roman Catholics, and Mormons, and Seventh Day Adventists.
You say you believe the gospel, good.
Well, so do the same groups I mentioned.
But, then, this is also where you, a SBC member, and I, a Primitive Baptist differ.
You probably hold that it is necessary for a sinner to hear the gospel, obey it, believe it, in order to be saved, and when you say saved, you most likely, as the majority of those who call themselves Christians, mean the salvation that Christ wrought at the cross, that He shed His blood for, which compasses redemption, atonement, and adoption.
Primitive Baptists do not hold to such a doctrine.
We believe the gospel is important in God's economy, yes, but belief in and obedience to the gospel has NOTHING TO DO WITH ONE'S ETERNAL SALVATION/REDEMPTION.

Therefore, if YOU were worshipping with us and it so happened the preacher spoke on the role of the gospel in the sinner's life, you would feel uncomfortable, and in your spirit, disagree, and would come out of our church muttering under your breath that you are never going back there, and perhaps in the back of your mind calling us heretics, as many on this board have already either done directly or in an insinuating manner.

You also likely hold that all must hear the gospel or else perish.
We do not believe all the elect will hear the gospel, in fact, we do not believe all the elect belong to Christendom at all.
So again, I go back to Amos' statement: How can two walk together except they be agreed ?

Then again, as evidenced on this board, you non-Primitives are willing to lay aside Scriptural principles and teachings as long as the others claim to worship the same Christ you do.
Be my guest.

I will not sacrifice truth and principle for anything.
How can I, for example, say, I'm willing to worship beside somebody who questions the impeccability of Christ ?
That is anti-Christ.

 

Do you mean that you cannot have fellowship with Christians who have been saved the exact same way that you have been?

That you see un ity only working if we all were to agree 100% on not just essential doctrines, but also all secondary and have all same preferences and convictions?

If so, then you have a peculiar view on what the real Church of Christ is!

 

Based upon all of those stated doctrines, then not even the Jesus of the Bible, nor His Apostles would fell welcomed in your assembly!

Again, you have to see that the Gospel and the Cross brings the unity into the Body, as the Holy Spirit gives us it!

And if your church feels no need to fulfill the Great Commission, than how can you stand in judgement on those of us who are in the Will of God doing that in our churches?

 

See what I'm saying? There you are implying our doctrines are so heretical that the Savior Himself will feel excluded ! The Body of Christ ? Which body is that. The SBC ? The IFB ? The BBF ? The PB's ? All "Christian" churches ? I hold to a visible local church. Period. As for judging your doing the "Great Commission" from where I stand you all are the ones judging what we believe about it by tagging us hyper this or that.

 

So long as the church has the most important beliefs to heart (I'd consider this the five fundamentals at the very least), good teaching, opportunities to learn and discuss as a group (a Bible study class), and opportunities to serve and carry out the great commission, I'm pretty well on board.
I attend a baptist church now, but I'd be comfortable at a nondenominational church as well. Possibly a methodist one as well, though not entirely sure.

I don't care about the worship style or instruments. Old school, modern, mixture of both, it's not a big deal nor much of a determining factor.
I do wish worship at my church was a bit more lively and real, as that seems more genuine. What I mean by this is like...other places I've been/attend (I attend a weekly Bible study outside of my church), I've seen people cry (as I myself have), lift hands (which is Biblical, BTW, mentioned in the Psalms), and seem actually affected by the words they were singing. But it's not that important, and I do love my church.

As a smaller priority, I would be (and have been) turned off by a church preaching legalism, especially if that's the bulk of their teachings. But they don't give it undue emphasis, then that may be a different story.

 

I prefer a church that preaches Jesus first..., everything else second. Course, being human I do have a problem with that on occasion as the flesh often gets in the way.

Otherwise, a church that is absent gossip, back biting and all that political rhetoric. Where people don't fight over the color of the carpet; or the wattage of the bulbs in the overhead lighting. No in-fighting over who's going to administer the Sunday School Program. A Choir Director for whom realizes that he's not God's gift to music. A church where a business meeting doesn't break out in a hockey game. Where folks don't come up to others at a meal and ask why they always appear to be first in line to eat. A place where the Pastor does not request he be introduced as, The Most Respectable Doctor of Theology, The Honorable Pastor and Director of The South Side Self-righteous, Holier Than Thou Baptist Church.

You know..., a place where visitors are welcome. A place where folks linger around after church vise rushing to exit the premises causing a traffic jam in the parking lot and especially a church where folks turn off those infernal cell phones during service.

I know, I know..., too much coffee so early in the morning.