What did jesus mean By "let this Cup pass By me?"

[John of Japan]

I'll agree with you in that case.

Would you agree that this cup of which Jesus had to partake had something to do with the fury, and or wrath. and or indignation of God?

I believe that the cup in the Garden was possible death from extreme stress. The stress was caused by the idea of becoming sin, which was infinitely abhorrent to Christ.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

I assume you think the Father saved him from death in the garden that night and therefore he was able to die the following afternoon?

Yes.

The Father answered him after by the things he suffered he learned obedience unto death even the death of the cross. Three days and three nights later.

Do you think the resurrection from the dead was being saved from death?

No, resurrection was being saved "out of the midst of the dead" (my literal translation), not "from death."

Just as in Psalm 16 Peter said David was speaking as a prophet about the Christ, is Psalm 116 a prophesy about the Christ or was David writing about himself?

Please be more specific. There are parts of the psalm that cannot refer to Christ.

 

[percho]

I believe that the cup in the Garden was possible death from extreme stress. The stress was caused by the idea of becoming sin, which was infinitely abhorrent to Christ.
Yes.
No, resurrection was being saved "out of the midst of the dead" (my literal translation), not "from death."

Please be more specific. There are parts of the psalm that cannot refer to Christ.

And if Christ is preached, that out of the dead he hath risen, how say certain among you, that there is no rising again of dead persons? and if there be no rising again of dead persons, neither hath Christ risen; and if Christ hath not risen, then void [is] our preaching, and void also your faith, and we also are found false witnesses of God, because we did testify of God that He raised up the Christ, whom He did not raise if then dead persons do not rise; 1C15:12-15 YLT

I presume that if God had not raised the dead person Christ from the dead he would still be in of the dead but not dead.

having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Now with the above in mind and also the prayer in the garden lets look at Ps 116.

Could not the following have been the very thoughts in the mind of Jesus when he returned to his disciples and his betrayal?

I love the LORD, because he hath heard my voice [and] my supplications. Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon [him] as long as I live. The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow. Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul. Gracious [is] the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God [is] merciful. The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me. Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, [and] my feet from falling. I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living. I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted:

Is this a statement of pre-death and resurrection or affirmation of being delivered from death by resurrection?

verse 3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

Did Peter quote the above relative to the resurrection of Christ probably from the Septuagint?

whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it, Acts 2:24 YLT

Almost forgot: Happy New Year pray things are going good with you.

 

[Iconoclast]

Good and interesting answers. I have a related question. Why did He use the word "cup" as opposed to trial, testing, ordeal, temptation, etc.? In the Greek is it the same word as is used for a container of liquid? Does the Greek vernacular of that day allow for such a translation or is this usage unique to Jesus in the Gospels? Some of you Greek scholars, please shine some light on these questions.

26.Jeremiah 25:15
For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
Jeremiah 25:14-16 (in Context) Jeremiah 25 (Whole Chapter)
27.Jeremiah 25:17
Then took I the cup at the LORD's hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
Jeremiah 25:16-18 (in Context) Jeremiah 25 (Whole Chapter)
28.Jeremiah 25:28
And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.









Matthew 10:41-42 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
40.Matthew 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

1.Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:9-11 (in Context) Revelation 14 (Whole Chapter)
2.Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

it is a figure used for suffering resulting from Judgement upon sin.

 

[convicted1]

26.Jeremiah 25:15
For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
Jeremiah 25:14-16 (in Context) Jeremiah 25 (Whole Chapter)
27.Jeremiah 25:17
Then took I the cup at the LORD's hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
Jeremiah 25:16-18 (in Context) Jeremiah 25 (Whole Chapter)
28.Jeremiah 25:28
And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.









Matthew 10:41-42 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
40.Matthew 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.







it is a figure used for suffering resulting from Judgement upon sin.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: Jesus took our judgement upon Himself, when He bore our sins upon the cross. God's wrath was poured out on His Son for our behalf. He was our sacrificial Lamb, our Scapegoat, our atonement. By Him doing this, we would attain the adoption of sons.

 

[percho]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: Jesus took our judgement upon Himself, when He bore our sins upon the cross. God's wrath was poured out on His Son for our behalf. He was our sacrificial Lamb, our Scapegoat, our atonement. By Him doing this, we would attain the adoption of sons.

I agree with you and Icon however just what does this verse mean?

And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

Was that said for just his disciples or for the church he would build?

 

[John of Japan]

And if Christ is preached, that out of the dead he hath risen, how say certain among you, that there is no rising again of dead persons? and if there be no rising again of dead persons, neither hath Christ risen; and if Christ hath not risen, then void [is] our preaching, and void also your faith, and we also are found false witnesses of God, because we did testify of God that He raised up the Christ, whom He did not raise if then dead persons do not rise; 1C15:12-15 YLT

I presume that if God had not raised the dead person Christ from the dead he would still be in of the dead but not dead.

having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Now with the above in mind and also the prayer in the garden lets look at Ps 116.

Could not the following have been the very thoughts in the mind of Jesus when he returned to his disciples and his betrayal?

I love the LORD, because he hath heard my voice [and] my supplications. Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon [him] as long as I live. The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow. Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul. Gracious [is] the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God [is] merciful. The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me. Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, [and] my feet from falling. I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living. I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted:

Is this a statement of pre-death and resurrection or affirmation of being delivered from death by resurrection?

I pretty much agree with this, but I think it's getting away from the OP.

verse 3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

Did Peter quote the above relative to the resurrection of Christ probably from the Septuagint?

whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it, Acts 2:24 YLT

Peter may have been quoting the Septuagint either in Ps. 18:4 or 116:3, since the two main words are the same. However, the Septuagint doesn't have articles on the two words, but Peter Acts 2:24 adds the direct article on both words (better grammar).

Almost forgot: Happy New Year pray things are going good with you.

And Happy New Year to you too. God is very good to us.

 

[Greektim]

Few good answers that look back to the OT for a referent. Some people are just running w/ the metaphor and applying any kind of theology they can think of. I would postulate that along w/ the concepts mentioned about from Jeremiah, I would consider the Exodus motif which is paradigmatic for the Bible.

Exo_32:20 He took the calf that they had made and burned it with fire and ground it to powder and scattered it on the water and made the people of Israel drink it.

This is partly to play off of the idea here just earlier:

Exo_32:6 And they rose up early the next day and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.

Not only is a cup a way to refer to judgment, it also has to do w/ punishment or the exacting out of judgment. It is not just the judicial decision, it is carrying out that decision. Apply that to the garden scene and it makes great sense.