What Did jesus mean " Greater Works tahn these You Shall Do IN My name?"

[JesusFan]

had a "spirited" discussion with my Pentacostal minister friend that has been attending my church...

Over easter dinner at an Elder home, he brought up that we can do "all things thru Christ" and "greater works than these"

I tried to show him jesus was referring to the Church can/will preach and proclaim the Gospel thru the World after he left as the "greater work" but he saw it as signs/miracles/wonders...

Whay would be a good way to view this?

 

[SeekerOfTruth]

That he could be right? That there are real signs/wonders/miracles still taking place?

 

[DHK]

That he could be right? That there are real signs/wonders/miracles still taking place?

SeekerOfTruth, since you have not identified yourself as a Baptist, we request that you post only in those forums which are designated for non-Baptists. Thank you.

 

[JesusFan]

That he could be right? That there are real signs/wonders/miracles still taking place?

Well, since i AM a "bapticostalist"...

Do believe that God still can function in those ways IF he choses to, but do believe vast majority of time he used the Bible and medicine and "ordinary ways"....

Just saying that he took that verse to show that we can expect it to be the "norm" for Christians today to excercise those "sign gifts" even greater degree than jesus did/could...

Jesus raised the dead, walked on water, healed ALL diseases brought to him etc...

that was my contention, that though God still can do such today, its not norm for today, and greater miracle is healing /forgiveness of sins thru Jesus Christ....

Do you believe we can do greater works today in his name than that?

 

[DHK]

Jesus raised the dead, walked on water, healed ALL diseases brought to him etc...

that was my contention, that though God still can do such today, its not norm for today, and greater miracle is healing /forgiveness of sins thru Jesus Christ....

Do you believe we can do greater works today in his name than that?

Greater works do not equate to miracles. What was the one thing that the angels in heaven rejoiced at? "when one sinner repented the angels in heaven rejoiced," not when Jesus did miracles.

Jesus lived only three years on this earth.
Most in full time ministry live much longer, and by virtue of their longevity have the opportunity to reach more for Christ than Christ himself did in his earthly ministry. In this day and age we have no excuse for our technology enables us to reach the masses very quickly, even instantaneously. The greatest work; the greatest miracle possible is to see a soul come to Christ. This is what I believe Christ was referring to.

 

[Allan]

had a "spirited" discussion with my Pentacostal minister friend that has been attending my church...

Over easter dinner at an Elder home, he brought up that we can do "all things thru Christ" and "greater works than these"

I tried to show him jesus was referring to the Church can/will preach and proclaim the Gospel thru the World after he left as the "greater work" but he saw it as signs/miracles/wonders...

Whay would be a good way to view this?

I have yet to hear about or find any person, much less more than one to have EVER done greater works that Jesus did. Don't know of anyone walking into multiple towns and healing everyone there. (this would at least be equal to Jesus). Or people having the demon possessed running to find them as they came into a town, begging to not be cast out. (again, this would be at least equal to the works of Jesus). Or bringing the sight to at least 3 know blind people (again, at least equal to Jesus). Walking on water and calling another out onto the water with Him (once again, at least equal).

Since we have no person who has even done at least equal miracles, we must look again at what is being spoken to. What is greater than healing people completely physically? What is the only work that Christ did not do in complete form that exceeds the things He lists. Was it not the spiritual healing and unification of man with God, that could only coming into being AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus?

Is it not salvation? Not that we ourselves save them yet we share in that work of Christ according to scripture:
At such an event - are not all the things done at once - the demons would be removed, the blind would see, the lame would walk, the dead (spiritually) would be raised, the leprousness of our sins cleansed for all time, the sick and infirm made whole. We were given the ministry of reconciliation. A work of God, which he imparted to us to fulfill on His behalf having the full authority and power of Heaven to do, every moment, at any time - what Christ did.

Jesus said - I have come to seek and save that which was lost
And He also said - as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

 

[Calv1]

had a "spirited" discussion with my Pentacostal minister friend that has been attending my church...

Over easter dinner at an Elder home, he brought up that we can do "all things thru Christ" and "greater works than these"

I tried to show him jesus was referring to the Church can/will preach and proclaim the Gospel thru the World after he left as the "greater work" but he saw it as signs/miracles/wonders...

Whay would be a good way to view this?

There is much debate on this issue. We can say with certainty that no man has ever done greater works than Christ. The view I think is closest to the mark, although it is a bit blurry, is that cumulatively Christians would do "Greater", in the sense of volume, or greater works.

That answer doesn't satify me, but it seems to be the concensus by most scholars.

 

[Skandelon]

I have yet to hear about or find any person, much less more than one to have EVER done greater works that Jesus did. Don't know of anyone walking into multiple towns and healing everyone there. (this would at least be equal to Jesus). Or people having the demon possessed running to find them as they came into a town, begging to not be cast out. (again, this would be at least equal to the works of Jesus). Or bringing the sight to at least 3 know blind people (again, at least equal to Jesus). Walking on water and calling another out onto the water with Him (once again, at least equal).

Since we have no person who has even done at least equal miracles, we must look again at what is being spoken to. What is greater than healing people completely physically? What is the only work that Christ did not do in complete form that exceeds the things He lists. Was it not the spiritual healing and unification of man with God, that could only coming into being AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus?

Is it not salvation? Not that we ourselves save them yet we share in that work of Christ according to scripture:
At such an event - are not all the things done at once - the demons would be removed, the blind would see, the lame would walk, the dead (spiritually) would be raised, the leprousness of our sins cleansed for all time, the sick and infirm made whole. We were given the ministry of reconciliation. A work of God, which he imparted to us to fulfill on His behalf having the full authority and power of Heaven to do, every moment, at any time - what Christ did.

Jesus said - I have come to seek and save that which was lost
And He also said - as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

:applause: Well stated. I would just add that Jesus' goal wasn't to have the response like we see in Acts 2 when Peter preached. He was hiding the gospel in parables, provoking the Jews with hard saying without clarification (i.e. eat my flesh), and telling his followers to keep some of his works secret. The greater work of the apostles was to be the ones to carry the powerful life giving truth to all people thus drawing all those who hear to Christ.