What Did jesus mean" Upon This Rock, I Will Build my Church?"

[33ad]

It means Jesus started the catholic church and everyone is saved by his church even if they don't realize it since there is no salvation outside Jesus and Jesus is his church

 

[The Biblicist]

It means Jesus started the catholic church and everyone is saved by his church even if they don't realize it since there is no salvation outside Jesus and Jesus is his church

Were all those saints prior to Christ's first coming OUTSIDE OF CHRIST? They never needed anything other than faith in Christ for remission of sins - Acts 10:43. No church in Acts 10:43! No church in hebrews 4:2!

 

[Moriah]

See Ephesians 2: 8-10, in the context of Ch. 1-4.

See also: the Book of Romans is filled with the human condition and the Sovereign Grace of God and the inability of man to save himself from his depravity.
"...not of works--lest anyone should boast."

Peace,

Bro. James

Jesus only saves us.

Jesus chooses those he will save. Jesus gives life to whom he is pleased to give it, John 5:21. If a person desires to be saved, they should get Jesus’ teachings and obey them; they should desire to be the person in which Jesus is pleased to give life.

 

[Moriah]

James is dealing with a different condition of man than Paul and a different audiance than Paul and from a different perspective.

1. Paul's audiance is "before God" while James is before men "shew me...shew you...see"

2. Paul's subject is "the ungodly" while James is "one of you"

3. Paul's is a theological perpective while James is pragmatic.

Contextually defined "one of you" is a person who has come before the assembly and PROFESSED to be a regenerated and justified man and accepted by the assembly for membership based upon submission to baptism (James 1:18; 2:1-9). This is the kind of person that James is considering contextually as "one of you." James is dealing with faith from a post-conversion profession where faith is pragmatically working by love.


Hence, a profession of faith without works in this kind of person would not merely call his PUBLIC profession of faith into question but his regenerative experience because regeneration is being "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works" (Eph.. 2:10). Thus in this kind of person faith without works is a visible evidence of a person still spiritually dead and thus a false PUBLIC profession of faith before the assembly.

However, in contrast, Paul is speaking of "the ungodly" (Rom. 4:5) prior to making any public confession before men but solely at the point of faith "before God" (Rom. 4:1) previous to any submission to any ordinance of God (Rom. 4:9-12). Paul is considering the character and object of justifying faith while James is considering the public pragmatic evidence of justifying faith ("shew me....shew you...see how" both in the person that is "one of them" and in the public illustrations of Abraham and Rahab.

More significant, James is dealing with faith that is COMPLETELY WITHOUT WORKS as illustrated in the person refusing to provide for the needy and as illustrated by demons.

Paul is dealing with the nature of justifying faith whereas James is dealing with the public evidence of justifying faith which is works.

James speaks of a dead faith, a faith without any action. Paul does not say that same dead faith is the kind that saves.

 

[Moriah]

Yeah, but every day I realize just how far I am from it. Like Paul, it seems that what I want to do, I cannot do it, and what I shouldn't do, I do that.

Hey Michael,
Please take this response to what you said in kindness, as it is how I am giving it.
Paul was not speaking of himself after being saved; he was speaking about himself when he was under the law, Romans 7:1.
After Jesus saved Paul, he was no longer led by sin, doing what he did not want to do. Though humble Paul did not feel that he was yet perfect, he worked out his salvation with trembling and fear, even beating his body to submit to him so that he would not be disqualified for the prize as he helped save others. Paul was in no way the same sinner he once was, a violent man, a man who attacked Christians.
Paul’s old self was crucified with Jesus so that the body of sin might be done away with; that he would no longer be a slave to sin-- see Romans 6:6. Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set Paul free from the law of sin and death, see Romans 8:2.

 

[Moriah]

peter, the confession that peter made, Jesus or?

The scripture Matthew 16:19 is about God revealing truth to Peter. God reveals the Truth to all the Apostles so that they can preach the gospel. The Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus Christ as chief cornerstone laid the foundation. Jesus told his disciples, “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." Again, the Prophets and Apostles had a task like no one else…to lay the foundation. Men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Peter had a profound truth revealed to him by God. This does not support the Catholics false doctrine of “Apostolic Succession.” There is no such teaching in the Bible.

True believers are living stones. A building, a religion, a denomination is not the living stones; people are, true believers are.

The Catholic religion is an apostate religion, all forms and denominations of the Catholic religion are apostate, when they call sinful men, the Catholic Popes “Holy Father” a name reserved only for God.

 

[Alive in Christ]

So you capitalize every other word in the title except Jesus?

Wow. Talk about petty..

 

[DHK]

Jesus only saves us.

Jesus chooses those he will save. Jesus gives life to whom he is pleased to give it, John 5:21.

Then only the elect will be saved. It is Jesus chooses; man has not choice. That is what I hear you saying in those statements. Pure Calvinism.

If a person desires to be saved, they should get Jesus’ teachings and obey them; they should desire to be the person in which Jesus is pleased to give life.

But now the unsaved person must get the teachings of Jesus and then obey them, and then he will be saved. That is not what Eph.2:8,9 teaches. It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith and not by obedience or works. You teach directly contrary to the Word of God.

 

[Moriah]

Then only the elect will be saved. It is Jesus chooses; man has not choice. That is what I hear you saying in those statements. Pure Calvinism.

You do not understand, for it is not Calvinism, nothing at all even close. I love explaining this in more detail.

Man does have a choice. Man can hear the gospel and believe, or man can hear the gospel and reject it.

There are different types of people when they hear the gospel, some might believe but still have doubts, some might hear but not believe they are a sinner, still others might believe but not intend to give up any of their sins. Then there are others who hear the message, do not doubt, admit they are sinners, and want to stop sinning. Those are heart and mind conditions. Do you think that Jesus has to give his Holy Spirit to those who keep doubting, or those who will not even admit they are sinners, or those who do not want to give up sins? No, Jesus knows our hearts and gives his Spirit to those he accepts.

There can be a person who hears the message, but has doubts, that person can be determined to stop doubting and thus be the kind of person whom Jesus is pleased to give life.

There can be a person who hears the message, but does not believe they themselves are sinners, that person can one day humble themselves and thus be the person whom Jesus is pleased to save.

There can be a person who hears the message, they believe, but do not want to give up any sins, later that person can come to a place in his or her life that causes them hate their lifestyle, thus become the person Jesus is pleased to give life.

Any person can struggle, to be reconciled to God and then overcome and be saved.

But now the unsaved person must get the teachings of Jesus and then obey them, and then he will be saved. That is not what Eph.2:8,9 teaches. It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith and not by obedience or works. You teach directly contrary to the Word of God.

I love to explain better to you. We must go through Jesus; we cannot come to God on our own, no matter what we do or do not do. One must realize that there are different kinds of works spoken of in the Bible at different times. There are works of the law, like circumcision, etc; and there are works like giving gifts to people and being hospitable, etc.

God did not send Jesus into the world to save us because of things that we did, God made the plan for salvation even before the creation of the world. We also are not free of all sins when Jesus saves us, but that does not nullify the fact that Jesus saves those who believe and obey.

 

[DHK]

I love to explain better to you. We must go through Jesus; we cannot come to God on our own, no matter what we do or do not do. One must realize that there are different kinds of works spoken of in the Bible at different times. There are works of the law, like circumcision, etc; and there are works like giving gifts to people and being hospitable, etc.

There is only one type of work. Work (ergon) means "to do." A work is a work is a work. It means "to do." Do you mean to tell me that a person in South America who is given a NT, and has never heard about Jesus Christ, has never heard about Moses, or the Ten Commandments, or any of the OT law will be held accountable to giving up the OT "works of the law" though he has never heard of it!!!!! See how ridiculous your interpretation is. The phrase "not of works" means exactly what it says, "not of works." Not of any kind of works: prayer, doing good, going to church, nursing a baby, giving, doing alms, feeding children, etc. Those are all good works. And those works will not get you to heaven. No good work will get you to heaven. Salvation is not of works, not of any kind of work. With God there is no differentiation of works.

God did not send Jesus into the world to save us because of things that we did, God made the plan for salvation even before the creation of the world. We also are not free of all sins when Jesus saves us, but that does not nullify the fact that Jesus saves those who believe and obey.

That is right. Salvation is only through Christ; it is not through obedience. It is through Christ alone. Obedience has nothing to do with it.

You either believe Christ or you don't.
He said:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me."
He did not say: "but by works, or but by obedience," he said "but by ME". There are no works or obedience involved. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

 

[Moriah]

There is only one type of work. Work (ergon) means "to do." A work is a work is a work. It means "to do." Do you mean to tell me that a person in South America who is given a NT, and has never heard about Jesus Christ, has never heard about Moses, or the Ten Commandments, or any of the OT law will be held accountable to giving up the OT "works of the law" though he has never heard of it!!!!!

No. A person in South America, or anywhere else who does not know about God existing before the New Testament times does not first have to be explained the works the Jews had to do to belong to God, though they should learn of these things sometime in their life as a Christian.

When a person hears the gospel, they hear that we are all sinners needing to go through Jesus to be saved. They are to understand that they are sinners; they are to understand that they have to believe, they are to understand that they are to live a new life. If a person does not hear and understand that, at least that much, then what message did they hear? Certainly not the message that saves, for the message that saves is the message of the cross, and the message of the cross speaks of Jesus dying for sinners.

Who is told the message that saves, that Jesus died for sinners, yet does not know they have to believe Jesus is the Son of God whom God raised from the dead and that they are a sinner needing to turn from their ways? Who is told the message that saves and then is told you do not have to be sorry for your sins or understand you are expected to stop sinning? Who calls it works and says you cannot be saved if you are sorry for your sins and want to stop sinning? Many preach that nonsense without realizing what they are doing.

See how ridiculous your interpretation is. The phrase "not of works" means exactly what it says, "not of works." Not of any kind of works: prayer, doing good, going to church, nursing a baby, giving, doing alms, feeding children, etc. Those are all good works. And those works will not get you to heaven. No good work will get you to heaven. Salvation is not of works, not of any kind of work. With God there is no differentiation of works.

Nothing will get you to heaven without Jesus.

That is right. Salvation is only through Christ; it is not through obedience.

You do not receive the Holy Spirit unless you are obedient. You do not even know God unless you are obedient.

It is through Christ alone. Obedience has nothing to do with it.

Anyone who preaches that goes against God.

You either believe Christ or you don't.
He said:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me."
He did not say: "but by works, or but by obedience," he said "but by ME". There are no works or obedience involved. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

God does not even know you unless you love God. You do not love God unless you obey God.

But the man who loves God is known by God, 1 Corinthians 8:3

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:21.

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him, John 14:23.

I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me, Proverbs 8:17.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command, John 14:15.

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love, John 15:10.

No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God, John 16:27.

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 1 John 5:3.

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love, 2 John 1:6.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we
know that he lives in us:

Oh how I love the Word of God.

 

[DHK]

No. A person in South America, or anywhere else who does not know about God existing before the New Testament times does not first have to be explained the works the Jews had to do to belong to God, though they should learn of these things sometime in their life as a Christian.

When a person hears the gospel, they hear that we are all sinners needing to go through Jesus to be saved. They are to understand that they are sinners; they are to understand that they have to believe, they are to understand that they are to live a new life. If a person does not hear and understand that, at least that much, then what message did they hear? Certainly not the message that saves, for the message that saves is the message of the cross, and the message of the cross speaks of Jesus dying for sinners.

What you have said contradicts what you have written below.
They must hear and believe the gospel. That is what you have just taught.

That contradicts this message:

God does not even know you unless you love God. You do not love God unless you obey God.

But the man who loves God is known by God, 1 Corinthians 8:3

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:21.

Never did Jesus say that in order to be saved.
That is a false message, a false gospel.
The unsaved person cannot love God; cannot obey God. He must come first to the understanding that God loves him. Is that not what John 3:16 teaches? "For God so loved the world..."
But you teach "For man so loved God..."
That is false teaching. Man didn't not so loved God that he obeyed him enough to be saved. He obeys God and loves God just like a robber loves and obeys a policeman.

 

[Moriah]

What you have said contradicts what you have written below.
They must hear and believe the gospel. That is what you have just taught.

I know what I teach, and I do not contradict. You just do not understand.

Never did Jesus say that in order to be saved.

Only saved people have the Holy Spirit. God does not even know you unless you love God. You do not love God unless you obey God. If God does not know a person, then how is that person given His Holy Spirit? Will you not try to answer that question?

That is a false message, a false gospel.

It is the Truth. I give scripture and explain.

The unsaved person cannot love God; cannot obey God.

That is not true. Again, how do you explain God giving His Spirit to someone He does not know? God does not even know you if you do not obey. Believing the gospel is obeying God. Humbling yourself and admitting to being a sinner is to obey God. Being sorry for your sins is obeying God. Are those things too hard for you?
Even unbelievers can believe in something. Even unbelievers can humble themselves. Even unbelievers can be sorry for things they have done and still do.
Do only Christians get married thus not having premarital sex? No. Do only Christians refrain from stealing? No. I can go on and on with examples of your beliefs being unrealistic. We can get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. Jesus’ teachings are not burdensome. We believe and obey, and Jesus saves us. We then have the strength, courage, and the blessing to keep going forward.
There is a false teaching that has convinced people that they cannot do anything that God says. Not only do people teach that no one can do what God says, but also they teach that whoever says they did something God commanded is in falseness deserving condemnation. That is nonsense. It is ludicrous.

He must come first to the understanding that God loves him. Is that not what John 3:16 teaches? "For God so loved the world..."
But you teach "For man so loved God..."

I understand that you do not understand, but do not say things that I have not said. God so loved the world, and we have to hear that gospel, and then we have to love God back. “I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me” Proverbs 8:17. Do you want to keep fighting against God’s words?

That is false teaching. Man didn't not so loved God that he obeyed him enough to be saved. He obeys God and loves God just like a robber loves and obeys a policeman.

That is man’s wisdom what you say. That is not the words of God.
God gave the message to be preached, the message comes to men, they get faith from hearing, from being taught, and convinced. God draws us with the powerful message of a better hope.
In the Bible, God tells people to search for Him, and He tells people how to find Him. God tells us those things, and I just want to speak of these things, yet you call it false teaching, you call it lies.

 

[DHK]

That is man’s wisdom what you say. That is not the words of God.
God gave the message to be preached, the message comes to men, they get faith from hearing, from being taught, and convinced. God draws us with the powerful message of a better hope.
In the Bible, God tells people to search for Him, and He tells people how to find Him. God tells us those things, and I just want to speak of these things, yet you call it false teaching, you call it lies.

God finds man; man doesn't find God.
The police find the thief; the thief; the thief doesn't find the police.

Can the Ethiopian change his skin? Can the leopard change his spots; so neither can you, who are accustomed to doing evil do good.
Man cannot seek God. God must seek him. He cannot do good, unless God seeks him and changes him. God initiates change. Man must respond with his own choice to the gospel that God has given him the opportunity to respond to. But it is God that first brings the Gospel. It is always God that first initiates the work in a man's heart. Man does not naturally seek after God. Neither does a thief seek after a police station.

 

[Moriah]

God finds man; man doesn't find God.
The police find the thief; the thief; the thief doesn't find the police.

I just explained to you that God sent His Word; man hears the gospel; one gets faith; man obeys God and this is love; that person had sought God and is now known by God.
I give you the gospel truth, but you disregard what I say and speak man’s wisdom about a police officer and a thief.

Can the Ethiopian change his skin? Can the leopard change his spots; so neither can you, who are accustomed to doing evil do good.

Not everyone is accustomed to doing evil.

Man cannot seek God.

I give you scripture that God says to seek Him, yet you keep saying man cannot seek God. Why do you go against God?
Only one scripture is needed to prove to you the words of God, as for if man can and should seek God, I can give you many scriptures telling you that.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.

God must seek him.

God searches man’s heart and mind. God does not even know people who do not love Him by obeying Him.
1 Chronicles 28:9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.
Proverbs 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of a man; it searches out his inmost being.

John 4:23 yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

He cannot do good, unless God seeks him and changes him.

That is not the word of God. That is the words of false teachers.

God initiates change.

We would not know God if God did not speak to men. How you think God initiates change? You are not free from the false teachings of Calvin and many others.

Man must respond with his own choice to the gospel that God has given him the opportunity to respond to. But it is God that first brings the Gospel.

Where have I said different?

Man does not naturally seek after God. Neither does a thief seek after a police station.

God tells men to seek Him. Do you think you know better than God who tells men to seek Him?

 

[DHK]

God tells men to seek Him. Do you think you know better than God who tells men to seek Him?

Do you know better than God? No you don't.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures.

Romans 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

A man seeks after God as a thief seeks after a policeman.

...So can you cannot do good that are accustomed to doing evil. (Jer.13:23)

You have a depraved sin nature as all men do. An unsaved man does not have a new nature. He cannot love God. He cannot do good.

 

[Moriah]

Do you know better than God? No you don't.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures.

I give you scriptures of God telling men to seek Him, and what do you do, you ignore it, and then you try to get other scriptures to nullify God’s word. You did not even acknowledge the scriptures of God telling men to seek Him.

Romans 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

What is King David saying where Paul quotes? At that time, it is a sad state of affairs inside Israel. When the day arrived, no one searched for God. Later, they repented, and searched for God. During slavery in Egypt, the Jewish people asked God, if he had forgotten them. How could they do so, if THEY were not wondering where He had disappeared? In the New Testament, when Jesus arrived, people shouted: “Son of David, have mercy on me”. They were looking for the Messiah. In the New Testament a blind man was searching for the Son of God, the prophet’s had said would come. HOW COULD THEY DO THAT IF NNE EVER SEARCHES FOR GOD?

Paul who was explaining that even Jews who are God’s people sinned like everyone else. Romans 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
Paul then quotes Psalm14:1-3; 53:1-3; and Ecclesiastes 7:20. Ecclesiastes SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS. Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin.
Paul is explaining that the Jews were sinners just like the Gentiles. Nowhere in these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe on their own.

A man seeks after God as a thief seeks after a policeman.

You trade the words of God for man’s words. You use the quote, “A man seeks after God as a thief seeks after a policeman” as if it were scripture. You quote a Calvinist. Those are words from the Calvinist Michael Horton, and the Calvinists who love to quote him, such as John Samson. See this link for proof of what I say. http://fccphx.homestead.com/TotalDepravity.html
You teach total depravity, which is nowhere in the Bible. The Bible does not say all men are totally depraved. The Bible does not say man cannot believe in God after learning of Him. The Truth is that that is how man does come to know God.

...So can you cannot do good that are accustomed to doing evil. (Jer.13:23) You have a depraved sin nature as all men do. An unsaved man does not have a new nature. He cannot love God. He cannot do good

What you say goes against God and common sense. How do you think that all are accustomed to doing evil? That is illogical. How do you think that no one ever does anything good ever? That is more teachings that are illogical. The Jews were not even allowed to associate with Samaritans, yet Jesus uses a parable about the GOOD SAMARITAN.
I already explained to you that not all people are accustomed to doing evil. Many people are blinded by the false teachings of Calvinists.

 

[The Biblicist]

No. A person in South America, or anywhere else who does not know about God existing before the New Testament times does not first have to be explained the works the Jews had to do to belong to God, though they should learn of these things sometime in their life as a Christian.

Do you really think that God has one standard of righteousness for the jews and another standard of righteousness for non-Jews????? That is precisely how you are interpreting the law of God.

Do you really think that God writes one kind of moral law on stone and another kind on the human heart - 2 Cor. 3:3??????

Do you really think that the civil and religious laws of Israel are based upon something other than the same exact moral principles written on stone?

Do you really think that God writes another kind of law upon the conscience of the Gentile (Rom. 2;15)????

Do you really think that God's nature has more than one kind of moral standard? ONe kind for the Jew and another for the Gentile??? One kind for those living before the cross and another kind after the cross?

 

[The Biblicist]

Do you really think that God has one standard of righteousness for the jews and another standard of righteousness for non-Jews????? That is precisely how you are interpreting the law of God.

Do you really think that God writes one kind of moral law on stone and another kind on the human heart - 2 Cor. 3:3??????

Do you really think that the civil and religious laws of Israel are based upon something other than the same exact moral principles written on stone?

Do you really think that God writes another kind of law upon the conscience of the Gentile (Rom. 2;15)????

Do you really think that God's nature has more than one kind of moral standard? ONe kind for the Jew and another for the Gentile??? One kind for those living before the cross and another kind after the cross?

Do you really think the moral nature of God and the moral nature of man are different? Isn't man, whether Jew or gentile created in the moral image of God???

Do you really think God has one kind of moral standard for Jews and another for Gentiles?

What all human beings in all ages before and after the cross have "come short" is the very same moral standard of God and it does not make any difference if you are a Jew or Gentile it is the same moral standard. The law given to the Jews is not a different moral standard than the moral standard given to the Gentile.

The law given to the Jews is greater in application but comprehends the same law given to the Gentiles just as the universe includes our galaxy. However, what you see in our galaxy is exactly what you see in the universe - stars, planets, astroids, space.

Likewise the Law of Moses is like the universe in moral application whereas the law written on the conscience of the Gentile is like our galaxy in application but THE VERY SAME LAW with the very same goal defining righteousness before God.

The same thing can be said of the ten commandments. The universal Ten can be reduced to just TWO principles that summarize each each five - love God and love your neighbor. It can be further reduced to just one - Love.

There are not several different standards of righteousness given by God but just ONE standard but in various degress of extensive application.

The Gentile in the Old Testament was under the same law in principle as given to the Jew.

Neither Gentile or Jew became children of God by keeping any law as the law was never given by God to obtain justification, life or sonship.

 

[Moriah]

Do you really think that God has one standard of righteousness for the jews and another standard of righteousness for non-Jews????? That is precisely how you are interpreting the law of God.

You come up with things out of nowhere. Nowhere have I said or even suggested what you say here.

Do you really think that God writes one kind of moral law on stone and another kind on the human heart - 2 Cor. 3:3??????

What kind of question is that?

Do you really think that the civil and religious laws of Israel are based upon something other than the same exact moral principles written on stone?

Do you really think that God writes another kind of law upon the conscience of the Gentile (Rom. 2;15)????

Do you really think that God's nature has more than one kind of moral standard? ONe kind for the Jew and another for the Gentile??? One kind for those living before the cross and another kind after the cross?

Do you think you will sound knowledgeable if you just rattle off a bunch of irrelevant stuff?
All your nonsense talk is in reply to my saying, “A person in South America, or anywhere else who does not know about God existing before the New Testament times does not first have to be explained the works the Jews had to do to belong to God, though they should learn of these things sometime in their life as a Christian.”