What did Jesus mean when He said touch me not

[canadyjd]

If He did ascend to the Father for a moment it was to deliver the saints that arose to the Father.

Thank you. That seems to me to be very likely and answers a question that I have been constantly baffled by when reading those texts. What happened to all those saints that rose from the dead on that day? Now I know, Jesus took them to heaven.

peace to youraise:

 

[Mel Miller]

Brother Bob,

Charles Spurgeon saw the deeper reason for Jesus having asked Mary to
"Go tell those whom He loved that He was ascending to His Father and their Father and to His God and to their God".

The message goes much deeper than a reference to taking the spirits in
Paradise to heaven. It was deeper because the message for His Disciples had nothing to do with whether or not she was allowed to touch Him.

The deeper message concerned His directive (first given on their way to Gethsemane; Matt. 26:32) that after He arose He would meet them in Galilee. Jesus knew Mary had already taken that message to Peter and John as directed by the angel at the tomb: "Go tell His disciples AND PETER that Jesus would meet them in Galilee". Mark 16:7. This would take them 70 miles north of Jerusalem!!

But when Jesus met Mary, He emphasized that He was going back to the Father. The only sensible conclusion for Peter, from these two messages coming one after the other in quick succession, was that Jesus would meet the Disciples in Galilee BEFORE He ascended to the Father.

He revealed Himself to the Disciples on that same day, after a 14-mile round trip to Emmaus, so that they knew the promise to meet them in
Galilee was of the utmost importance in what should occur before He
ascended to His Father and His God and to their Father and their God.

Jesus was showing His love as He called them "brethren" for the first time!
He had called them "friends"; but not "brethren". He desired to see them
BEFORE returning to the Father and even "breathed on them", saying,
"receive the Holy Spirit ... and as the Father sent me; so I send you"!
John 20:21-22.

I conclude, with Spurgeon, "there would be time enough for another interview with Mary". It was too superficial to tell Mary not to touch Him UNTIL He went to the Father. The added message was most urgent
because of the anxiety of the Disciples about meeting them in Galilee.

Only moments later, while Mary ran the second time to add to the message about the empty tomb and that He was going to meet them in Galilee, that He allowed the rest of the women to cling to His feet!!

His message to the Disciples, as well as to Mary, was the same: "I am going to the Father; but I wish to talk with My Brethren first"! :wavey:

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

Mel;
It says the bodies arose and went into that Holy City.
What were they doing what time Jesus was meeting with His deciples and does Spurgeon think He ascended after meeting with His deciples or so many days later?

Also Mel;
Why if He blew on them and they received the Holy Ghost did He tell them again in the book of Acts that when the Holy Ghost comes upon you etc., as if they were going to receive it again?

 

[Marcia]

Thank you. That seems to me to be very likely and answers a question that I have been constantly baffled by when reading those texts. What happened to all those saints that rose from the dead on that day? Now I know, Jesus took them to heaven.

This is the first time I ever heard of this theory - that Jesus took those dead saints to heaven. Frankly I find it very strange -- I think the Bible would give some indication of it somewhere.

Since Jesus' ascension (which I think was His first and only one) and his return is announced so strongly in the Bible, I think something like would have been mentioned also.

 

[Brother Bob]

Marcia;
Why did He say to Mary "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to the Father"? I have always wondered about this Scripture. It is for a reason and what is that reason? The Bible says I suppose if all that Jesus had said and done had been written I suppose the world would not contain the books. I am not saying I know but am asking if anyone else does or their veiws on the subject. I don't preach it but have always wondered about it for I don't want to confuse people and some things are better left alone, but that don't keep me from wondering.

Also Marcia;
When did those saints go to Heaven? They arose after Jesus arose and went into that Holy City.

 

[Mel Miller]

Brother Bob,

Your response was so quick it made me wonder if you studied the matterl

Matthew Henry agrees with Spurgeon by paraphrasing what Jesus said:
"Though I am not yet ascended, go to my brethren ... tell them I am to ascend ... I shall not depart immediately ... Lose no time to carry the tidings to the disciples ... Go with all speed ... Tell them I must shortly ascend and that is the next step I am to take". P.981 of Mark's account.

This is consistent, not only with having told them He would meet them in
Galilee after He arose; but consistent with His plan to train them in 40
days for taking on their appointed task to spread the Gospel.

They had to learn not to expect Him to remain with them nor to set up
the kingdom on earth at that time. In Peter's sermon, this was clearly
observed by his stating that "Jesus must remain in heaven until the times to restore all things". Acts 3:21.

The urgency of the deeper message for the women, and the disciples,
was in the original message to them:

"GO QUICKLY, tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead and BEHOLD, He is going before you into Galilee; there you will SEE Him"!
Matt.28:7; Mark 16:7.

Shifting the purpose for telling Mary not to touch Her, FROM that of the
urgency of the message for the Disciples to MEET HIM IN GALILEE to the much less important question of taking the spirits to heaven misses the emphasis on urgency! Why must He first go to the Father in the moments between meeting Mary and the rest of the women? That misses the correlation of His emphasis on going back to the Father; but that first they would receive the Holy Spirit as their Comforter and empowerment. :wavey:

Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

Of course I have no Scripture to support the theory of Him ascending with the Saints and then meeting with His deciples except the fact of Him saying "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to the Father".

As far as the Holy Spirit, He breath on them and they received the Holy Spirit but He also told them I will pray the Father and He will send you another comforter and in the book of Acts He mentioned to them "when the Holy Ghost comes upon you" which of course was the day of Pentecost.

This is why the Bible never gets old and we read and reread is these hidden messages which come with time and study.
I have always thought I have done my job if I stirr up pure minds when it comes to Scripture for it causes study, Amen

 

[Mel Miller]

What was meant by "Do Not Touch Me"?

Brother Bob

I've said enough to show the reason for not "touching" was to go "quickly".

IMO, You just refuse to accept the message meant for the Disciples.

Mel

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, if I am supposed to accept everything you say then its not a debate is it. You don't have no Scripture to support you veiw or Spurgeons either. Go quickly is no answer to "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to the Father. The Bible is silent on both so your answer is no better or worse than mine.

 

[canadyjd]

This is the first time I ever heard of this theory - that Jesus took those dead saints to heaven. Frankly I find it very strange -- I think the Bible would give some indication of it somewhere.

Since Jesus' ascension (which I think was His first and only one) and his return is announced so strongly in the Bible, I think something like would have been mentioned also.

I am sorry. My previous post seems to indicate that I agree with Bbob about the statement of "do not touch Me". I have already stated that I believe the verse reads "don't cling to Me", and that the ascension He spoke of was the ascension after He met with His disciples in Galilee.

The question I struggled with, and which Bbob has been helpful to me was "what happened to all the saints that rose from the dead and walked about the city on the day Jesus was resurrected? (Matt. 27:52-53). We have no indication that stayed for a long period of time, or lived another lifetime and then died (which would contradict Hebrews 9:27.) That Jesus took them to heaven when He ascended is a good answer.

I wonder if this is the "first resurrection" which John speaks of in Rev. 20:5? Granted, I need more study on this.
peace to youraise:

 

[Brother Bob]

Sure its the First Resurrection and Jesus said "I am the Resurrection and to prove it "blessed are those who have a part in the First Resurrection for on such the second death have no power.

In other words to have a part in the First Resurrection is to have Christ in your life. Amen,

 

[canadyjd]

Sure its the First Resurrection and Jesus said "I am the Resurrection and to prove it "blessed are those who have a part in the First Resurrection for on such the second death have no power.

In other words to have a part in the First Resurrection is to have Christ in your life. Amen,

Amen. Again, thank you. You have put me on a course to answer some long standing questions that I have had.
peace to youraise:

 

[Marcia]

Marcia;
Why did He say to Mary "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to the Father"? I have always wondered about this Scripture. It is for a reason and what is that reason? The Bible says I suppose if all that Jesus had said and done had been written I suppose the world would not contain the books. I am not saying I know but am asking if anyone else does or their veiws on the subject. I don't preach it but have always wondered about it for I don't want to confuse people and some things are better left alone, but that don't keep me from wondering.

Also Marcia;
When did those saints go to Heaven? They arose after Jesus arose and went into that Holy City.

Hello, Brother Bob: I always heard that the "Touch me not" really means "Do not cling to me" because Mary just wanted to linger with Him (naturally) and Jesus had places to go. He was also letting her know he would be ascending to the Father and would not be staying.

As for the dead saints -- it doesn't say they went to heaven. It just says they appeared to many. God did not see fit to tell us more. So to speculate that they were taken to heaven by Jesus before his ascension is really stretching things, imo. Maybe they appeared and went back to where they had been until after Jesus ascended.

 

[canadyjd]

As for the dead saints -- it doesn't say they went to heaven. It just says they appeared to many. God did not see fit to tell us more. So to speculate that they were taken to heaven by Jesus before his ascension is really stretching things, imo. Maybe they appeared and went back to where they had been until after Jesus ascended.

I agree we shouldn't speculate where there is no revelation. However, we do have revelation concerning the resurrection. A resurrected body is a glorified body, transformed into something new (as Paul puts it) I can't image God "un-resurrecting" David or Moses or anyone else. Once resurrected, it seems reasonable that Jesus brought them to heaven with Him at His ascension. Again, could this be the "first resurrection" mentioned in Rev. 20:5?

peace to youraise:

 

[Marcia]

I agree we shouldn't speculate where there is no revelation. However, we do have revelation concerning the resurrection. A resurrected body is a glorified body, transformed into something new (as Paul puts it) I can't image God "un-resurrecting" David or Moses or anyone else. Once resurrected, it seems reasonable that Jesus brought them to heaven with Him at His ascension. Again, could this be the "first resurrection" mentioned in Rev. 20:5?

peace to youraise:

I always understood the first resurrection to be the resurrection of our bodies. No one has had a resurrected body yet except Jesus. David and Moses have not been resurrected - they went to wherever the OT saints went after death and at some point went to be with Christ (this is the part the Bible is not clear on), but they do not have their resurrected bodies yet.

 

[Brother Bob]

It said those bodies of the saints that arose after Jesus did went into that Holy City and appeared unto many.

Jesus has alway been the first resurrection in our church that is why He is the firstfruits of them that slept that arose. Don't you think it was a resurrection when Jesus and the saints came out of their graves? And that is not speculating.

It also says it was appointed unto man Once to die. Not twice or three time but once.

I have always believed that Jesus was the First resurrection and will always believe it and preach it.

 

[Brother Bob]

If the first resurrection was when the bodies come out of the grave then all would be in the first resurrection and the Bible says "blessed is he that hath a part in the first resurrection for on such the second death hath no power". If that was true then no one would be lost.

 

[Marcia]

It said those bodies of the saints that arose after Jesus did went into that Holy City and appeared unto many.

Jesus has alway been the first resurrection in our church that is why He is the firstfruits of them that slept that arose. Don't you think it was a resurrection when Jesus and the saints came out of their graves? And that is not speculating.

It also says it was appointed unto man Once to die. Not twice or three time but once.

I have always believed that Jesus was the First resurrection and will always believe it and preach it.

It says their bodies were raised but it's not their glorified bodies. That's what I meant by resurrected bodies. Maybe I should have been more clear.

Do you not believe that all Christians get our glorified bodies at the same time in the future? I thought that was pretty much the Baptist belief. A true resurrected body is a glorified body.

I'm not denying that Jesus was the first resurrection.

 

[Brother Bob]

I'm not denying that Jesus was the first resurrection.

Thank goodness for that. Now we work on the saints.
Yes they were glorified bodies. men don't die naturally twice for it was appointed for them to die once.


KJMatt.27

50": Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

"51": And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

"52": And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

"53": And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Marcia;
These were saints and they went into the Holy City and appeared unto many. They are in Heaven today and were part of the First Resurrection.
If they arose from the graves and went into that Holy City and were saints and were part of the resurrection of Jesus don't you think they also were part of the first resurrection?
As sure as there is a Heaven, those saints are there today.

 

[Marcia]

I think the First Resurrection as it is referred to in Rev. is in the future and refers to the saints who will get their resurrected bodies at that time. It does not deny that Jesus is the first one to be resurrected, but Revelation is clearly talking about the resurrection of saints in the future.

The more I think about these saints who were raised, the more I am recalling an explanation I heard once that I think makes the most sense. These saints were brought back from the dead like Lazarus, but they were not resurrected in glorified bodies and taken to heaven. That's why the Bible doesn't say they went to heaven.

They were raised from the dead and lived on earth, like Lazarus, until they died. If Lazarus was raised from the dead, which the Bible says he was, and died again, which he had to, then there has to be a way to reconcile that with Heb 9.27. I think Heb 9.27 is speaking of the normal way for almost everyone but Lazarus and others who were raised from the dead when Christ was here. Those were miracles -- out of the ordinary events, so Heb 9.27 still applies to us.

So I think the Matthew passage is talking about people raised from the dead -- this was a miraculous occurrence - another sign related to Jesus, like Lazarus.