What do Arminians believe regarding losing one's salvation:?

Me2, since this is your game, please identify which of the following Random House Webster's Dictionary definitions for spirit apply in each of the scriptures you've posted.

 

Yelsew,

this isnt "my" Game.

"the Game" starts when someone speaks of having faith "in God" that is not based on faith "of God".

only the faith that is derived from WITHIN the spirit of Jesus Christ, is the only appropriate faith of God.

that Spirit is implanted INTO each believer at the moment of Regeneration. without that new spirit that replaces our old carnal spirit.
mankind will remain dead towards God.

as all Mens souls will remain in death until the exchange of their old carnal spirit with the new righteous and resurrected spirit of Christ.

for only one spirit is alive.

that is the "spirit" of Christ.


so if you speak of the things of God, Dont you think that you should go to "its" source for definitions.

instead of random house websters dictionary.

try using vines dictionary. its actually based on using the bible as "its" source reference.

or might I suggest a bundled bible software program. such as "e-sword"

Me2

 

Here we go again. Your god is so limited that he needs to have faith. Your god is not omniscient, cannot see all there is, does not know every heart. He must have faith because he is as limited as any created human.

I guess Abraham's faith was not good enough because he did not know Jesus Christ, You know the Jesus Christ that was the descendent of David the king, the Jesus Christ that was born in a stable in Bethlehem a few milleniums after Abraham himself lived. Oh, Yes, It was ABRAHAM's FAITH and not God's faith, God said so! Just think of all the others who were credited by God as having a faith of their very own. Imagine Daniel without His very own faith, Joseph, Jacob, and all the others.

Which definition of "spirit" are you referring to?

Which definition of "death" are you using?

Which definition of "spirit" are you using here? You know, in the scriptures we are told by Jesus that the flesh has nothing to offer, it is the spirit that is life. Now you tell us that the spirit is dead but the flesh lives. There is something seriously wrong with your theology.

The spirit of christ can easily one or more of the definitions of "spirit" posted earlier.

So, vines dictionary is God's authorized reference dictionary? I have 7 different bible programs with 19 different versions of the scriptures on my computer, and there are many websites that contain nearly every version of the Scriptures in most of the dominant languages around the world. They ALL say you are wrong!

That is sufficient for me thank you.

 

Yelsew,

examples? using scripture? Refutations?

eze 11:19... new spirit "within" you
eze 36:26... new spirit will I put "within" you
eze 37:14... put my spirit "in" you
joh 14:20... ye in me, and i "in" you
joh 15:4.... abide in me, and i "in" you
rom 8:9.... spirit of God dwell "in" you
rom 8:10... and if Christ be "in" you
rom 8:11... by his spirit that dwells "in" you
2 co 13:5... Jesus Christ is "in" you
gal 4:19... until Christ be formed "in" you
col 1:27... Christ "in" you, the hope of Glory
1 joh 4:2... Jesus Christ has come "in" the flesh
1 joh 4:4... greater is he that is "in" you

I have given you scripture to validate my opinions.
and you havent touched a one.. try starting at the strongs number G4151 (NT) , or H7307 (OT)

the problem here is not whether man was physically born with “a” spirit. meaning that he has “a” spirit.

It matters when God says that man must be spiritually Born “again”. Meaning the replacement of the spirit which man was physically born with.

Meaning that the old Spirit HAS to be destroyed, or die. It must be judged unfit. And replaced

That a new spirit that can communicate with God must be imparted.

A completely different spirit as compared to the original man had. (A non functioning spirit).

This new spirit that must be imparted within man is the spirit of Jesus Christ. “He” is the image of Man.

Regeneration or initial salvation depends on whether the spirit of Christ is within you.
whether your new spirit is abiding under the teaching of the holy spirit.
whether the “means” of communication between God and man is functioning correctly.

Where is the "proof" that this correctly functioning spirit is now “within” you?.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Such a simple statement. Yet powerful reprocussions, if overlooked.

Are we born again with a new spirit?
is this spirit from God?
Does this spirit have a name?
Is this “new” spirit inside the believer?

Me2

 

NO, the problem here is your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that there is more than one meaning for the word "spirit". Even in scripture there is more than one meaning for "spirit".

Being Born Again does not mean "replacement" of man's spirit. It means "restoration", redemption, "making it new", converting it from dead in Christ to "alive in Christ", it is the changing of what exists by making it "anew".

NO! it means that the persuasion of the spirit of man must be changed from unbeliever to believer, not replaced. The human flesh could not tolerate the stress of removal of the old spirit which quickens the flesh and replacing it with a "new spirit that quickens the flesh". So the old spirit and the new spirit are the same spirit, but the persuasion of that spirit has changed from unbeliever to believer, and it has done so from within, not from some outside force.

NO! it is the spirit of man that remains the spirit of man, BUT is it the changed persuasion that after "rebirth" believes and accepts the "spirit of Christ". It is the same transformation that takes place when one is transformed from "fighting the system" to "working in the system" and vise versa. It is the same kind of transformation as when the proverbial light comes on in ones psyche that enables one to understand.

It is then that the Holy Spirit is enabled or empowered to come into that life and transform it from sinner to saint.

This is correct, but the phrases "spirit of Christ" and "new spirit" holds a different meaning for me than it does for you. For you, "new spirit" means a replacement, for me it means a renewal, restoration of the existing.

Spirit of Christ means to you that you now have in you two spirits, your own replacement spirit and the spirit of Christ. To me the spirit of Christ is the knowledge received from God's words which fills the void that existed in my human spirit. Knowledge which I now am willing to obey because I now have FAITH in the one the knowledge is about, I believe in Jesus! I accept the promises he made to all when He was in the flesh living among us. Therefore my spirit is renewed, and in my renewed spirit I have Jesus authority to go directly to the throne of God with my praise and petitions. I was that lowly bum on the street, but now with my spirit renewed, I am a child of the King.

Yes it is a powerful statement, that you do not fully comprehend. You have been deceived into thinking that the spirit of man must be killed and subsequently replaced with a complelely different, non human spirit. That is not true to scriptures. Jesus would not have preached to unbelievers that they must believe, if all that is needed is a spirit transplant.

NO, not with a new spirit, but with the "old spirit" being renewed into a "new spirit". Being born again is the one and only human spirit being transformed from unbelieving to believing, with the object of believing being Jesus, the Christ.

What is the "washing of regeneration"? It certainly is not "a parts replacement program"! It is taking the old and regenerating it, refurbishing it, restoring it, renewing it.

Let me illustrate with something you may understand. In technology everything "evolves" because of the quest to become "God like", but in the human spirit the final product exists and the only thing that can change is the program set by which such existance is controlled. My illustration is that of a computer. The existing computer is the final product, there will not be any subsequent evolutionary "new design" produced. What we are is all that we have. The mechanics are completely functional, able to perform regardless of what Program sets or data are "installed" within us. There is a true saying regarding computers GI-GO, Garbage in - Garbage out. So...

In the computing world regeneration is taking the old re-writable medium (human spirit), cleaning the old instruction set from it and writing (installing) a new instruction set on it. Floppy disks, hard disks, tapes, CD's and memory chips, are reusable because they can have the old instruction sets (programs and data) removed by "deleting" them from them, and having new instruction sets and data written to them. Human spirit is like that, in that we can have the "old spirit's" "instruction set" and "data" removed from our media, and a completely new set of instructions written therein. ALL the while, we retain the old media, our human spirit, But the new stuff gets written on our "heart" and our spirit (the processor) performs in accordance with the new instruction sets and "data" (the knowledge of God, God's database). Thus we have new life because that old useless program set no longer controls what we do. We now have a "new spirit" because we have new instructions to follow that produces "the fruits of the spirit" within us, and they cannot help but overflow our buffers and spill out so that others can see the new spirit within us. Same computer -- All new programming!

Now that is being born again! The new instruction set is the spirit of the Christ! It is his instruction set that controls the way we operate henceforth! By acting in accordance with the NEW INSTRUCTION SET, we operated "normally" in our New LIFE. Remnants of the OLD instruction set may remain "within" us, but the NEW INSTRUCTION SET points them out as being "OLD" and we either act on them, thus disobeying the NEW, or we ignore or complelely delete the old instruction set(s). Thus it is that we who take the action necessary to "repent", it is we who act in accordance with our NEW INSTRUCTION SET, God's Holy Word, that was installed when we were "UPGRADED" (renewed, restored) through NEW PROGRAMMING. We have new life!

Now I realize that words are inadequate to explain all of the nuances and subtleties that actually take place when we allow ourselves to be redeemed by God. But we humans have but one spirit for our entire existance, and it is the instruction set by which we are controlled that must be changed for us to be "born again" to be "regenerated", for us to be saved from the ultimate destruction of being cast into the lake of fire.

Our spirit which is our life does not die, nor is it replaced! For what purpose would God do that? It is our human spirit that God is seeking and saving! Therefore He is not going to replace our spirit (our life) with that of His ONLY Son whom he willingly gave us so that we could, in our only existance, be renewed and restored to our righful relationship with God. And, He does that to ALL who are willing to be saved. For those who are not willing to be saved, He judges them and casts them into the lake of fire.

 

Yelsew

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

question. Who died on the cross. Jesus the sinner, or Jesus the righteous man.
answer. Jesus the righteous man died sowing a righteous spirit. what did he reap?.
Many glorified resurrected righteous spirits.

Co 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:

if any man other than jesus were to spiritually die. We would sow corrupt seed.

Being “dead in” Christ is different than being “resurrected with Christ”.
Its a matter of comprehension and evidence.

It’s a matter of understanding your position in the process of sanctification. Some are dead “in christ” waiting to receive “evidence” that they have been resurrected. They have wisdom of the process. They are holding these truths in the faith “of Christ”. And are waiting for the unseen evidence to be revealed to them.

Now you ask how can they have faith “in christ” without recognizing that christ is in them?. Are they not “dead in christ” and not been resurrected. Correct.

We have received our new spirit and now are beginning the teaching from the holy spirit concerning WHAT HAPPENED.
Were saved. Yet growing in our understanding…Heck. We don’t know what happened. And don’t know that we have a new spirit. other than what the holy spirit is teaching us as we await the evidence that this is indeed what has happened..we have received a new spirit.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Believers must recognize that the old man is DEAD.DEAD.DEAD..Gone byby. We are a new creature. With a new resurrected spirit. we cant change these facts! The old man is dead.

But nobody is reminding us that there are three enemies that are still against us. Our flesh, our old “beliefs and crutches” and the devil…we’ve been resurrected from death. Been placed back in death. Have a new set of enemies and now must work out our salvation in a relationship with our new spirit of Christ that is within us and God our Father…but the old man is old news…he’s dead.

did you forget that the “spirit of Christ” is the “spirit of Man”.
the only one in mankinds history that works correctly.
Our old non functioning unrighteous “spirit of man” has to be destroyed because it is cursed and its destiny is death.
God the father is not recending this determination. Yet he has designed an alternative solution.
He places us in the life of another person. His Son..
We can say this in another way. God the father places the only righteous spirit of mans “seed” in each of his adopted children.

Now the old mans spirit dying can only be accepted by you and your comprehension. Call it a miracle. Call it a fact that only God can produce. Our old man is dead, and we have another different and new spirit.

Get over it. And move forward. Its Gods business. He’s a miracle worker. you were judged prematurally. You died spiritually and received another spirit.

Our old spirit is destined for destruction. It is cursed and God is not Going to fix it. He will replace it

whoa buckaroo..only one spirit in your body at a time. You were a sinner. God judged you. He took your old spirit out and gave you a new spirit. whine all you want. Your old spirit is Gone..even though you cant realize this fact fully. Trouble is the glory to God is not there. He performed a miracle. And now everyone around you is hearing you say “me,me,me”..when it should be “christ in me,me,me”. Or “My” faith, when it should be “the faith of christ in me”. Faith comes from the abilities of the new spirit. what he sees in the realm of the unseen. He knows, you wait for the evidence to become reality.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(alternative translation…your old man is dead! Lets move on. You have a new spirit now)

I like your illustrations..yet your focus is on the spirit. the old spirit is gone. Got a new one and you cant change it.
But you can renew your mind. Your will. Your habits. You learn what is right from the spirit and replace a behavior that was in error and add to your character a new behavior, thought, outlook, hope, dream…..etc.

You want to control the impartation of God giving man a new spirit. that’s impossible. Yet you do have a choice afterwards whether you will change your behavior or not.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


So don’t think I believe or view you as not saved. Or even not having Gods spirit within you. Its there.

You just havent had enough proof to change you mindset..
although if your hunger still persists. Your mindset has to establish a more sure foundation of facts before it can build a structure that willstand pressure against it. Its called “the truth”
You will forever be working at figuring out the things of God, instead of resting in what he tells you straight out, without doubting his wisdom.

You’ve got a new spirit.


Me2

 

Me2, I know that you hate to face truth, but that which is resurrected is not "NEW", but is the "OLD" that was dead but is now brought back to life, to live again. The New Compact Bible Dictionary has as the Primary definition of "Resurrection", the following: "A return to life subsequent to death" Random House Webster's has the following definitions: Note the primary definitions of both resurrect and resurrection. They are just the same as the Bible dictionary.

The point of which is to show you that your statement that what raises from the dead is "NEW" is patently and biblically wrong!. That which rises from the dead, is that which is placed among the dead, It is the same article that was dead that is brought BACK TO LIFE.

THAT WHICH IS "NEW" CANNOT BE RESURRECTED, IT HAS NOT BEEN MADE DEAD!

SO Me2, The scriptures declare that we will be resurrected "on that day", meaning that which existed up to death, will be resurrected, "raised up" again. So, if our human spirit is placed among the dead as you say, then our human spirit will be resurrected on that day just as is was prior to it's death. Again, I know you hate to face truth, but your false belief cannot stand in the face of truth.

The Bible says of the resurrection, that the dead shall be raised, all of them! Some to life eternal, but many to judgment and the second death. So if our vile, sinful human spirit is Dead and Gone as you say, it will be raised again, only to be judged and cast into the lake of fire. Since we were given ONLY ONE SPIRIT and you say that spirit is the one that is DEAD and GONE! Then you condemn all mankind to judgment and the second death! The scriptures do not say that of the human spirit! YOU are desparately wrong! Wake up to the truth! If you are teaching others your false doctrine, STOP! It is a lie that you teach!
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Just what part of the human do you think "you mind", "your will", and "Your Habits" relates to? The spirit of man is what controls the flesh of man, therefore the "mind", "will", and "habits" are all of the spirit of man. IF YOU CHANGE THE PERSUASION OF THE SPIRIT OF MAN AND YOU CHANGE THE MIND, THE WILL AND THE HABITS OF MAN. Please notice I did not say if you "EXCHANGE the spirit of man", but rather if you "change the persuasion of the spirit of man".

You should know that beating a slave does not change the mind of the slave, He/she still longs to be free from you! Beatings do hurt the essence of man, both physically and spiritually, and they do impress upon the beaten one that disobedience brings pain, but they do not change the one's will to be free! That is one reason why "FAITH" among captives is so strong, and why captives such as the Children of Israel in Egypt longed for their freedom from oppression, longed for "the promised land" of their own where they would be free. Yet many generations did not see that promised land, yet the hope of it continued throughout the 400 plus years of their captivity. OUR SPIRITS LONG TO BE SET FREE FROM OPPRESSION OF SIN AND THE ULTIMATE FATE OF THE SINNER, OUR SPIRITS DO NOT LONG TO DIE, BUT INSTEAD CONTINUE IN HOPE OF THE PROMISE OF GOD THAT WE WILL BE SET FREE, NOT KILLED. WE HAVE FAITH THAT GOD WILL "REDEEM" US, (not replace us) AS HE PROMISED! But not all men know God, Not all men have heard the Gospel, Not all men have understood and most assuredly, not all men are willing to be changed from what they are to what they can be.
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No sir, your weakling god, the one who needs faith to exist, does not remove your human spirit and replace it with the spirit of his son. He can't, he's weak and has to have faith. But you haven't stated what, or whom your god puts his faith in. There must be another god out there somewhere that only your god knows exists, and he's keeping it secret from you.
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Me2, it is interesting that you chose this verse because Paul in writing this verse implies that is it "you" (implied) who is "to be not comformed to this world", "you" are to be transformed by the renewing (not replacing) of your mind (which is of the human spirit), and that it is "You" who proves what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. The "YOU" is implied throughout Paul's teachings. Paul is addressing human beings, not God. He is telling them "YOU, my reader, MUST DO THIS OR THAT", and not that God is responsible for doing it.

Paul is telling his readers that God has already done all that God is going to do for their redemption, it is now up to them to believe and be saved. Or to believe and live their "new, redeemed lives" in accordance with their belief in God. He tells his reader that the reader must take action to repent from sinning, stop doing those evil things and live your lives in the nurture and admonition of the Lord Jesus Christ. YOU (implied) do what Jesus instructed us all to do! Behave in accordance with your faith!

Paul is not telling them that their human spirit has been replaced by the spirit of Jesus. If spirit replacement were true, Paul would not need to tell them how to live their lives because the spirit of Jesus in them would be living the life of Jesus. If their human spirit had been replaced with the spirit of Jesus, Paul would not need to scold them as he often does for their misconduct, and their lack of understanding! They would know already what to do, because they have the spirit of Jesus in them by a replacement action done by God. Yet, we find faithful Paul admonishing them, cajoling them, scolding them, and teaching them how to live the "christian" life.

Once again your false beliefs are adequately refuted by simple truth! Truth that you posted!

 

In my previous post, I correct the following

to read,

 

Yelsew,

Just shows how much you really know.

the "mind" is the human soul.

its will. its seat of emotions. its perceptions.
its thoughts. its hopes. its dreams. its memories.

its "mind". as in renew your mind.

the verse (Rom 12:2) is not speaking about the spirit.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

doesnt pauls thoughts just flow as he speaks of the human "mind" and in the next verse speaks of "thinking" or "thinking soberly"

the mind is the gateway that allows the spirit to express itself.

we either by our choices allow the truth to be manifested through this gateway. or we stop the expression.

we also have the ability to cancel out wisdom of God by doubting the wisdom received.

it is our will that makes these determinations.

two opposing answers cancel each other out..


and then theres paul constant references to Christ being "inside the believer".. notice some of those previously posted scriptures..some were from the very pen of Paul...


rom 8:9.... spirit of God dwell "in" you
rom 8:10... and if Christ be "in" you
rom 8:11... by his spirit that dwells "in" you
2 co 13:5... Jesus Christ is "in" you
gal 4:19... until Christ be formed "in" you
col 1:27... Christ "in" you, the hope of Glory

I think he would agree with me.

that our old spirit dies. and we are resurrected with christ. we receive a completely different spirit compared to the one we died with.we receive the spirit of Jesus Christ.

but wait..is paul saying that those who christ spirit is inside are still alive. its a miracle!

Me2

 

Just goes to show what you know, find me a "human mind" and bring it to me. Oh, you can't? "Can't find one" you say. Perhaps that is because it is of the spirit which you also cannot find.

If you think for one minute that the spirit of man does not think then your whole theory goes out with the dirty bathwater. Jesus told us that the Father (God) is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. God is spirit and He obviously thinks else there would be no creation, No "Son of God", etc. We think because we are made in the image of God! We are spirit, thinking, learning, knowing, spirit.

I exchange "wisdom" for better "wisdom" all the time, and so do you. If not true then we could not possibly "grow in the grace and admonition of the Lord" We would be stuck in a rut, unable to "study to show ourselves approved unto God". Every time we learn something new about God, it is not that what we learn is new to God, but it is to us, so we have every right and are obligated to include the 'new' with and improve on the 'old' wisdom with the new.

When we were in high school, we had a certain spirit in us that made us part of that high school. we had school spirit. The school when empty has no spirit of it's own. It is only when we students were present that the school spirit was present, and dwelt within us. Most of us look back fondly on our high school years, and we realize that we were part of something, and when we get together for reunions we reminisce about our school's spirit and what it meant to us. Many of us can still sing our school song, and remember the "war chants" that we did in order to pump ourselves up for the big game or other event. My what a great school spirit we all had.

We had that spirit because we had that school "in" us and we were "in" the school.

When we have the spirit of God dwell "in" us, we have the knowledge gained, the promises given, the faith that we have established that are all "of God" dwelling in us. The combination of all that is truth and the spirit of God is truth. Don't get me wrong here like you usually do, Me2, for I know that the Holy Spirit permeates my own spirit and lights up the truth of God that I now have in me in the form of His Holy Word. "Thy word have I hid in my Heart that I might not sin agaist thee" clearly shows that KNOWLEDGE OF GOD's WORD indwells us and constrains our behavior. Therefore the spirit of God is "in" us. That same spirit of God gives us life and authority over evil.

Some additional related scriptures that show the importance of having "the word of God in your heart. Surely The word of God is the Spirit of God, wouldn't you say Me2?

You either don't read very well, or you deliberately ignore the truth. "Resurrect" means to bring to life that which is/was dead. If you insist on using the word "resurrect or resurrected", then you must use it correctly and not interpret it to mean that what is resurrected is not what was dead but is something NEW! Neither scriptures nor Logic will not let you get by with that lie.

Well, if one is still alive, then there is no death, no resurrection, thus, no miracle!

Remember, it is Paul who also said, "to be absent from the flesh (body) is to be present with the Lord". So the human spirit must have been transformed from sinner to saint before the flesh dies. There is no corruption in Heaven, so dead, or corrupt human flesh cannot enter there, it remains in the grave and returns to the dust from whence it came. Neither can unredeemed spirit enter there, for there will be no sin in heaven, and unredeemed spirit remains in a sin state.

 

Yelsew,

we cant hold these human “components” in our hands yet we can witness to their existence and capablities through the results we witness to.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

These three represent the entirety of mans conciousness. (soul)
We call it the will, the seat of emotions and mind. Many times we simply say soul, or mind, or heart to represent to entire component “group”….

When man is born again. We receive a spirit body and spirit and have access to Christ mind…his “soul”…Gods the Sons “soul”..the two are becoming one. His spirit., his will and our will.
He comes to us as an individual. A person that we can relate to. If we recognize his existence through faith..

We are an individual,yet we now have the opportunity to “rest” or to “strive” with this new “person”.
.
It will be mans will against Gods will, or mans will working with Gods will.
If you cant easily see when men say that Jesus is “Lord”.
The senerio is mans will working with their Lords will.
We can peer further into this an state that when we live by grace. We rest or work with the Lord.
When we live under law. We strive against the lords work (towards our well being) and attempt to make up the rules in our lives…sound familiar?

Try a few scriptures that desribe this.

Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.
Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.

We can agree with God and we can disagree with God. When we disagree, we are called “doubleminded”.

again. The spirit does not think. The mind within the soul thinks. It’s the “personality” of the individual.
The nature of the spirit is absolute fact. It’s the extent of the parameters of its existence. If God is Love. His spirit exists and has its being within those set parameters.. his will is another thing yet closely related if the two are working in tandem.. the spirit exists in a state of timelessness and the soul (jesus) operates in a state of time. That is why man is created to operate in two realms simultaneously.

The full expression of man is to live in zoe (eternal) life and bios (physical) life.
You keep expressing that God give you life. Yet you express this in a better and improved bios life terminology. Not zoe (eternal) life.

For man to experience Zoe life. God must be joined to man. God places his spirit inside man and joins mans soul with Gods Spirit. his Zoe (eternal) life.

difference between school spirit (mans spirit)
and Gods spirit is that He gives us Zoe (eternal) life as opposed to bios life.

Therefore the spirit of God is "in" us.

remember baptism.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Our old man is dead, if we are joined in Christs death. Yet our old man (carnal spirit) remains in death. Only the righteous spirit of Jesus has the right to be resurrected.
Our soul or mind is placed “in Christ”. It is resurrected “with Christ”.

Although this is a symbolic jesture. The thought structure behind it teaches us that by faith we must believe that when we died and were sentence to death. (as jesus was)
Our spirit and body contained sin and are not able to be released from this curse.
Only Jesus Christ spirit has been resurrected from death. Along with his soul and our soul.

You can look at this as two bodies two souls and two spirits went into death.
One body, one spirit and two souls came out.

Just like marriage. One body, one spirit, and two souls agreeing as One.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

First, where are demons?…in heaven. Why would we need a new heaven? Cause we have to shoo all those demons out!
Flesh cant enter into heaven because heaven is a spirit realm, it is not a physical realm.

Youll have to wait a while before we get that new heaven and earth. Till then corruption exists everywhere.

Even though Jesus has proven that his power is greater than all his enemies…
That power is given to man..and man will fight and ultimately win the actual battles.

God come to us and judges us and imparts a new spirit inside us. Fact!
Still we are alive today. That means somewhere in my past. I was judged and Eternity started for me. Now I see everyday as the lords day. Not just once a week! And there is a specific purpose for me being saved and returned to earth in this flesh tent.
Im working out my salvation in a living relationship with Jesus. 24/7/365.in this environment of death.
Im being prepared for whatever God has planned for me to do.
As he has plans for everyone he imparts his Sons spirit into today.

Easily verified by our definitive change in nature. Our strong yearning to discover who our Father is,and who we have newly become.
Gods has given us witnesses of our past and has given to us their records of events. Their thoughts and activities.
The Holy Spirit teaches our spirit all that we need to know as Gods children.
We have been imparted with many new gifts to interpret what these spiritual truths are and the ability to translate these facts into an understandable language.

We have been given a person to relate to. The Son of God becomes one with Us.
EVEN CLOSER than a brother could be..(pro 18:24)


Me2

 

Me2,

NO! NO! NO! You are not going to get away with this lie either!

Me2 your command of the english language falters when it comes to definitions of terms. Being double-minded has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing, IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BEING UNABLE TO DECIDE EITHER WAY. Both 'Agreement' and or 'Disagreement' clearly demonstrate that one has the ability to decide. A double-minded person cannot decide.

You would do well to frequent the dictionary as often as you do the bible. Your theology is based on false definitions you have of commonly used terms that have 'standardized definitions'. And that is the reason you run into so much flak with every topic you post on. You have not revealed which version of the scriptures you use, but that doesn't matter anyway because you simply do not understand the definition of many of the terms you base your "gospel" upon. Is English your primary language or is it a second language?

By the way, thanks for the scripture that clearly shows that man has the responsibility do decide for himself what he will believe.

 

Here's something you should know Me2. Pay particular attention to verse 24. Now you agree that we are made in the image of God, right? If we are made in the image of God and God is spirit as Jesus declares Him to be, then we must be spirit! The image of spirit is spirit! God the Father is spirit according to Jesus his only begotten human child. If God who is spirit, thinks, and expresses emotion, then we as spirits also think and express emotions for we are made in HIS image. There are scriptures describing our "conduct" in Heaven and those descriptions certainly reveal that we think and that we emote, especially when we are before the Throne of God. We are not born spiritless! We are spirit from our conception, and we reside temporarily in a shell of flesh. We think, we emote!

From the Kenneth Hagan school of theology no doubt!

 

Yelsew,

uhh, slow down there yelsew…we ARE born with a spirit. but it’s a reproduction of Adams fallen spirit…
its cursed. All who are born of adam comes with a cursed spirit.

a perfect curse whereas no one escapes its power who is born of adam.
That’s bout everybody on terra firma.

There are two different spiritual influences. Christ and antichrist.

If we don’t have one inside us. We have the other. We are born with the antichrist spirit. the false image of man.

When the “second” spiritual birth occurs. We are said to be “born again” into the family of God with Christs spirit “within” us. The great exchange.

Or the analogy of the seed. We are the ground as God the sower places his seed.of his sons spirit within us.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

I mean that for 4000 years the “spirit of Christ” was not “in” man….yep!

It was the “spirit of carnal man”. a once innocent spirit adulterated by sin and death. Cursed of God.

Everyone is doomed and eternally seperated unless God himself supplies mankind with a righteous substitute spirit to replace mans fallen spirit..Everyone.

God has a will. He thinks, he plans, He creates,. He works, he desires. Sounds like he has a conscience to me…a mind!

Did God curse mans conscience? Or did God curse mans Spirit only?. The two are seperatable in man...

Heb 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The “word of God” mentioned here is Jesus Christ, the very spirit inside the believer yelsew, not a book.


Or maybe you dont think that man was made spirit, soul and body? After the “image of Christ”.I mean God

That is the “image of Christ”, yelsew…that is WHO the image that man is made in.. spirit, soul and body.
The resurrected Glorified Christ.

Spirit Soul and Body

Lets see what does God say…hhmmm


Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spiritand soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Oh My…


Me2

 

Me2 said,

So, then you admit that our human spirit does not die. But that it is only in symbology that we simulate the death of Jesus, for our human spirit to recognize and act upon.

Does the unbelieving human spirit willfully submit to this symbology? No, not hardly! So then, there is no salvation in baptism! Is that how you see it?

Thus it is that Baptism is what a believer willfully submits to, so that symbolically, the belief held is demonstrated in a "public confession" of ones faith.

You went on,

But in an earlier post you said

Now you say we are not resurrected. Well, Me2, to be resurrected, we must truly be dead. If we are dead, then our flesh is dead too! Jesus said that, "the flesh has nothing to offer, it is the spirit that is the life of the flesh". If the spirit dies, the flesh dies. Conversely, If the flesh dies, one's spirit departs the dead flesh to be "united with" the object of one's belief. That is the nature of spirit.

I happen to believe what the scriptures teach, and that is, that Jesus had a Bodily Resurrection. A body that "eye-witness" doubters like Thomas could touch, and a body that can consume food, and walk and talk with his followers. I also believe that Jesus ascended from this earth in a flesh body because he was walking and talking with his followers mere moments before he ascended. Jesus, who is spirit, took his "glorified body" with him when he ascended to the Father's right hand, and the Father, in return, sent the "comforter", the Holy Spirit who has no body, who is the third part of the Triune Godhead, to the believers at the Pentacost event, and subsequently to every believer wherever they may be.

Now, believers are identified by their faith, which came to them while God's grace prevails, by hearing the Word of God. So a believer has the word of God in their spirit, and their spirit acts accordingly, thus we know the believers by the fruits of their spirit. If their spirit did not believe in Jesus, and hold the Word of God, they would not, no, could not produce good fruit. If their spirit believes in Jesus, their spirit produces the following:

Please note, these 'things' called "the fruit of the spirit" are not "Gifts of God", but rather personality 'behavioral' traits one exhibits, emanating out of the human spirit that believes in God, and who "knows" he/she 'has received' by a promise from God, the Gift of God called Salvation.

NO!...I cannot! I know better, and therefore, I cannot accept your premise!

 

I mean that for 4000 years the “spirit of Christ” was not “in” man….yep!

It was the “spirit of carnal man”. a once innocent spirit adulterated by sin and death. Cursed of God.</font>[/QUOTE]And then you run into men like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Daniel, Sampson, Joseph, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, Habbakuk, and women like Naomi, Ruth, Judeth, etc., etc., all of whom predated Jesus, Yet all of whom had Faith in God. It was Jesus who told us that, "I and the Father are ONE".

Me2, I think you are wrong! All of them had the spirit of "Christ" in them because they all had faith in God. It is Faith in God that is "being Christ-like" is it not?

Now then Me2, if you are going to use scripture, include the context, lest you misinterpret what is being said in the scripture.

----------------------------------

Let's see now, Thessalonians. Isn't that a letter written by Paul to the believers who live in Thessolonica, modern-day GREECE? Seems like Paul received a Promotion from Apostle to God. Thessalonians 5:23 is a man expressing the thought of how he, the man, prays to God for those believers in Thessolonica. It is essentially the same as saying, "I pray that God will preserve every fiber of your being, or every stitch of your fabric."

Throughout Paul's writings, he uses "soul" and "spirit" somewhat interchangeably. Most of the time he makes no distinction whatever between them. So Me2, I would not hang my belief about the essence of humanity on Paul's use of the terms, any more than I can accept your use of terms.

 

Yelsew,

greed is an interesting attribute of the carnal spirit.

First …….Jesus came from heaven. He was not cursed nor did he possess a cursed carnal spirit.
Second…. The spirit of Jesus was not given to man until pentacost. Not before.
No man born after adam possessed the spirit of Christ for 4000 years of mankinds history.
They had the cursed spirit.
they operated under the old covenant.
They followed the law.
They sacrificed animals.
God gave them specific external promises.
He also spoke through visions and revelations to his prophets.

Their faith or hope towards God never brought them eternal life. Eternal life only comes from Christ
To receive eternal life. They had to wait and physically die. Receiving that promise at their judgement

No. faith comes through the spirit. It is “possessing” the spirit of Christ “within them”.
it is obtianing and benefiting from the knowledge of Christ.it is learning humility under the lordship of God himself. it is expressing the agape love of God to others.

The OT followers were promised a city built without hands. They received it in their "afterlife".

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

The OT Followers couldnt resist sin…the nature of their spirit could only be disobedient.

The OT had the law as does the NT. It is called the law of Life and death. Yet it depends on how you observe these laws. From the carnal spirit. they are laws unto death. From the view of the spirit of Life…(which is Christ) they are laws unto life.

The OT didn’t have the “spirit of Life”. Jesus had to become one of us and die as our substitute for remission of sins. The OT followers were promised Eternal Life. The NT followers got the Spirit of Life “within” them.

You can chalk up the lives of some of the OT followers as receiving a repreive from the effects of Gods curses through immediate set conditions and promises given and intervention of wisdom of the Holy spirit UPON certain followers.

Good Luck!

I appreciate your responses.
Im sure MANY has learned from your observations.
I have.


Me2

 

Greed is a sin not an attribute of spirit of any kind. Greed is what a sinful spirit does, not what a sinful spirit is!

Jesus was conceived in the womb of a young female human by the POWER of the Most High God. Mary the young female had not known a man sexually, therefore that which was conceived in her was not conceived of man, but of God.

How do you know? That which "fell" upon man in the form of "tongues of fire", is called the Holy Spirit of God. If Jesus and the Father are one, the Spirit of God has been present and available for mankind since Adam, but very few seemed to know of it, until Jesus was revealed as the Savior of Mankind by John the Baptist, the "forerunner of the Christ".

No man "possesses" the spirit of any deity, Period, man is the possession of deity, we are God's creation, made in the image of God.

Every man possesses the spirit of man with the exception of Jesus. He is the only one that was not conceived of man. Each man is an individual human spirit indwelling a body of flesh for a period of time, stated to be not greater than 120 years. The spirit of man is the life of the flesh, according to Jesus, so without spirit the flesh would die.

No man today in this 21st century after the ascention of Jesus Christ "Possesses the spirit of Jesus". Each human is its own spirit, and that spirit has a bent toward sinning, a sin nature, and each is lost and in need of redemption by God. Note, that I said what scriptures say, "redemption by God" not "replacement with the spirit of God".

I don't read anywhere in scripture that God cursed man's spirit, man broke relationship with God by sinning. The only one who did any cursing was Adam! He probably cursed from sun up to sun set because of what he lost by sinning.

They operate the same way that we operate, their circumstance was different than ours because God has changed things, the circumstances, He did not change man. We, mankind, are exactly the same as what God created Adam to be. We are man, made in the image of God, just as Adam was made in the image of God. If this were not so HE, God, would have told us so.

NO, that tried to follow the law, but could not obey ever single law all the time, and God knew before he made us that we couldn't, that is why He marked the "lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world" to be the once-for-all propitiation for ALL the SINS of ALL Mankind for ALL times.

Because God told them too!

Care to expound on the specifics here?

That's true because he knew that he would not reveal Gutenburg, until sixteen centuries after Jesus was crucified.

Abraham, Noah, Isaac and all the other men of renown of the Old Covenant will certainly be disappointed then when they arrive at heavens gate only to hear Peter tell them they can't enter because they did not have the spirit of Jesus, whom they predated by quite a number of centuries.

No. faith comes through the spirit. It is “possessing” the spirit of Christ “within them”. it is obtianing and benefiting from the knowledge of Christ. it is learning humility under the lordship of God himself. it is expressing the agape love of God to others.</font>[/QUOTE]Scriptures tell us that FAITH cometh by hearing and Hearing by the Word of God. The word of God may have come to man through the Spirit, but man's faith comes from hearing the word.

The Prophets are reputed to have heard the voice of God telling them what to tell the people. David was a man after God's own heart. None of the Old Covenant people had the written word of God as we do, yet they had faith in God. How do you account for that? God's Holy Spirit has been around from Eternity's beginning, if there was such a thing. God's Spirit has been with mankind from the very first man. Jesus said, "I and the Father are one", and "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father", and there are other scriptures that reveal Jesus' identity as being one with God the Father. So how do you get off by declaring that the Spirit of Christ has not been among men from the very first?

The NT followers are also promised a city built without hands, so what's different? The method of getting there is the same for both the old and new testament followers, it is By faith that Abraham was counted as righteous, it is by faith that you and I are counted as righteous. So what is different? We are no longer bound by the works of the law, but by the works of faith. Jesus did not do away with the law, he made it complete, so that by faith all mankind can be redeemed. (not given new "Jesus spirits", but by having our own sinful spirit redeemed through the cleansing of the blood of the lamb of God.

I don't know what you included this scripture for, It does not seem to support your position.

The new testament followers are likewise afflicted. There is not one of us who does not sin even after being redeemed. That is why we are told by John in 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He (Jesus) is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The same law does the same thing for mankind today. If mankind could but obey every jot and tittle of the law, that same law brings life eternal. But we have a better way and that is through our each and own individual faith in Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah.

It seems to me that if you read the scriptures, you will find that the OT person who took the law to heart and lived life by the Law, that the spirit of life in the law is what gave that person life Eternal. So, to say that those under the law did not have the "spirit of life", is pure foolishness.

NO Me2, I cannot "chalk up" those lives as you do. Those who were under the law were subject to the law. Jesus came to live among us to show us how we could break the chains of sin through living our lives in faith, just as the OT people were to live their lives. You will note that every one who received honorable mention in the Old Testament received mention because of their individual Faith in God, and not because of their obedience to the law.

Me2, said "Good Luck!"</font>[/QUOTE]It is not a matter of luck Me2, it is a matter of one's own individual faith in God, that is, God the father, and/or, God the Son, and/or, God the Holy Spirit.' All three of these are GOD! Thus faith in any one of them, is faith in all of them! One cannot have faith in one of them and deny the others, it simply is not possible!

Thank you, It is my pleasure to speak of my faith in God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is my pleasure to remind all who read what I write, that God did not make any "Junk" when He made man! He made man in His own image, So if He, God, is Perfect, we are capable of being perfect if we but obey Him. When we shed the evil one's influence upon our lives through our faith in God, and Obey God's Word to the utmost of our ability, and we do have that ability because He helps us to, we are then "walking in the light as He is the light! When we accept His Holy Word without altering it to suit our own imaginings, we then have the 'light' (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet a light for my pathway) in us that the Holy Spirit intensifies and causes to shine from our lives so that others, too, can see what we have, then it becomes evident to all that we are living our faith.

May the Lord, God, shine His light upon You so that you can see the truth and set aside all doctrines that are false, including your "trusted" 'replacement of spirit'. Our human spirit is redeemed by Jesus, not replaced by the spirit of Jesus! Once human, always human! Scriptures reveal no other way!

And, I pray for you so that you are not deceived by any other wind of doctrine that comes your way.