What Do Matthew 8:22 and Luke 9:60 Teach about Burial?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

What do these verses teach about burial?

Note: This thread is not about types of burial, how burial was done in the past or is done today, how burial should or should not be done today, or any other such subjects. It is a discussion of what these specific passages teach about the subject.

Only after these verses have been very carefully and thoroughly exegeted, this thread is to be a discussion of their relevance on what Scripture does or does not teach about burial versus cremation.

If you are not interested in discussing specifically in this manner these passages and their biblical relevance to the debates about burial versus cremation, please start your own thread to discuss whatever else you would like to discuss.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Because Jesus is the Speaker of both of these statements, these verses are divine revelation about burial. A fully biblical theology of burial must account for the teaching of both of these verses.

 

[Lodic]

The context of these two parallel passages reveals that Jesus is not teaching about burial, but about being fully committed to following Him. He is clearly teaching about the importance of leaving everything behind in order to follow Him. In both of these cases, the sense is that the one requesting to "bury his father" is not ready to bury his father immediately. If that were the case, they would be preparing for a funeral service instead of visiting with Jesus. Notice Luke 9:61-62, where another guy wanted to say farewell to those in his house. Jesus answered by telling the guy that "no one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the Kingdom of God".

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The context of these two parallel passages reveal that Jesus is not teaching about burial. He is clearly teaching about the importance of leaving everything behind in order to follow Him.

No, the statements that Jesus made do teach about burial because He specifically talks about burial in both statements. Your claim that the verses are not "about" burial is wrong.

In theological studies, it is a fully established truth that when what the Bible teaches about a subject is to be studied, everything that the Bible says concerning the subject must be examined. Applying your assertion above and the theological method that it espouses, Matt. 28:18-20 is not "about" the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Solid theologians, however, reject that contention and hold that Matt. 28:19 is vital revelation about the Spirit and treat the verse in their treatments of a biblical theology of the Spirit. Just because something said in a passage may not be the "main point" of a passage does not mean that what is stated can be set aside as irrelevant, superfluous information.

Similarly, Matt. 8:22 and Luke 9:60 are revelation about burial and must be treated in order to have a proper biblical theology of burial.

 

[Lodic]

No, the statements that Jesus made do teach about burial because He specifically talks about burial in both statements. Your claim that the verses are not "about" burial is wrong.

In theological studies, it is a fully established truth that when what the Bible teaches about a subject is to be studied, everything that the Bible says concerning the subject must be examined. Applying your assertion above and the theological method that it espouses, Matt. 28:18-20 is not "about" the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Solid theologians, however, reject that contention and hold that Matt. 28:19 is vital revelation about the Spirit and treat the verse in their treatments of a biblical theology of the Spirit.

Similarly, Matt. 8:22 and Luke 9:60 are revelation about burial and must be treated in order to have a proper biblical theology of burial.

The context reveals Jesus is talking about following Him, and not simply about burial. Why do you believe this is important?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The context reveals Jesus is talking about following Him, and not simply about burial. Why do you believe this is important?

It does not matter that the passage, as you say, is "not simply about burial." What Jesus said about burial in the passage is divine revelation about that subject.

Furthermore, I have never said that these verses are "simply" or "only" about burial.

I am interesting in bringing out through a thorough exegetical treatment of these verses that these statements are important revelation to believers about the subject of burial.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Matt. 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.



Luke 9:57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.


In both passages, the text is explicit that Jesus did not address these statement to unbelievers. He addressed them to certain ones of His disciples who called Him "Lord."

Moreover, Jesus' responses in both passages do not explicitly command unbelievers to do anything. The commands that He gave in these passages were directed to His disciples.

 

[Lodic]

It does not matter that the passage, as you say, is "not simply about burial." What Jesus said about burial in the passage is divine revelation about that subject.

Furthermore, I have never said that these verses are "simply" or "only" about burial.

I am interesting in bringing out through a thorough exegetical treatment of these verses that these statements are important revelation to believers about the subject of burial.

My point is that these passages are not about burial at all. Jesus is teaching that those who follow Him must be fully committed.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

My point is that these passages are not about burial at all. Jesus is teaching that those who follow Him must be fully committed.

And my point is that you are wrong. In both passages, Jesus issues commands to His disciples that directly pertain to what was to be done regarding the burial of his father:

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

In context, "their" includes the disciple to whom Jesus addressed these responses because it was about his own father's burial that the disciple earlier responded to Jesus.

 

[Lodic]

And my point is that you are wrong. In both passages, Jesus issues commands to His disciples that directly pertain to what was to be done regarding the burial of his father:

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

In context, "their" includes the disciple to whom Jesus addressed these responses because it was about his own father's burial that the disciple earlier responded to Jesus.

I believe you are focused on the wrong thing. Following Jesus - not Burial - is the subject of both passages in context.

Just for the sake of our discussion, let's say that Jesus said that we are to bury our dead. This seems to be a continuation of the "Cremation" thread, so I will point out that Scripture does not prohibit cremation nor burial at sea. They are all forms of disposing of our earthly remains. Our bodies are just temporary dwellings, so it doesn't matter whether they are buried, burned, or eaten by wild animals. Let's not major on minor details.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I believe you are focused on the wrong thing. Following Jesus - not Burial - is the subject of both passages in context.

I am not focused on the wrong thing. You are refusing to treat what the verses actually say. Your approach is essentially to assert that Jesus responded by saying the following:

Matthew 8:22 [MODIFIED] But Jesus said unto him, Follow me.

Luke 9:60 [MODIFIED] Jesus said unto him, Go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Doing so, you are not handling God's Word properly because you are neither paying attention to the context nor treating fully the actual responses that Jesus gave.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

In both passages, it is clear that the disciple wanted and intended that his father be buried:

Matt. 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

The context is plainly one of a disciple of Jesus who believed that his father should be buried.

Jesus' responses show that Jesus concurred that the disciple's father was to be buried.

Jesus did not tell the disciple that it does not matter what happens to your father's body after he has died. Jesus did not tell the disciple that it was perfectly fine to let unbelievers do whatever they would want to do with his father's body.

 

[37818]

Some of the teachings of Jesus in the four gospel accounts applied only then while Jesus was teaching. And that is a study in itself.

 

[Lodic]

I am not focused on the wrong thing. You are refusing to treat what the verses actually say. Your approach is essentially to assert that Jesus responded by saying the following:

Matthew 8:22 [MODIFIED] But Jesus said unto him, Follow me.

Luke 9:60 [MODIFIED] Jesus said unto him, Go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Doing so, you are not handling God's Word properly because you are neither paying attention to the context nor treating fully the actual responses that Jesus gave.

Actually, it is by paying attention to the context that I see Jesus is not teaching about burial, but about what it means to follow Him. This goes beyond simply "Follow Me", or even "Preach the Kingdom". This is about the commitment we must give Him as His disciples.

In both passages, it is clear that the disciple wanted and intended that his father be buried:

Matt. 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

The context is plainly one of a disciple of Jesus who believed that his father should be buried.

Jesus' responses show that Jesus concurred that the disciple's father was to be buried.

Somehow you keep missing His message in context. It's clear that the would-be disciple intended to stay with his father until such time as his dad would pass away. "Let the dead bury their own dead" was to say that the demands of following Him take precedence over all earthly loyalties. This is more in line with Luke 14:25-27, where Jesus taught that we cannot be His disciple if we love our family members more than Him if we are to follow Him.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Actually, it is by paying attention to the context that I see Jesus is not teaching about burial, but about what it means to follow Him. This goes beyond simply "Follow Me", or even "Preach the Kingdom". This is about the commitment we must give Him as His disciples.


Somehow you keep missing His message in context. It's clear that the would-be disciple intended to stay with his father until such time as his dad would pass away. "Let the dead bury their own dead" was to say that the demands of following Him take precedence over all earthly loyalties. This is more in line with Luke 14:25-27, where Jesus taught that we cannot be His disciple if we love our family members more than Him if we are to follow Him.

It is not at all commendable that you dismiss the actual wording of the passage and paraphrase it to support your views. The texts speak explicitly about burial in both the disciple's statement and in Jesus' response.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Some of the teachings of Jesus in the four gospel accounts applied only then while Jesus was teaching. And that is a study in itself.

Do you hold that Jesus' teaching about burial in these verses applied only while He was teaching? If so, what is your basis for doing so?

 

[Deacon]

I taught through Matthew a few years ago.

Here's a portion of the outline I used that deals with this passage, (adapted from the Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament, Matthew, by David L. Turner)

Galilean ministry continues Matthew 8:1–11:1
A. Narrative 2: Three cycles of miracles and discipleship (8:1–10:4)

1. First set of 3 miracle stories

1. The leper (Jewish) 8:1-4
2. The centurion’s servant (Roman) 8:5-13
3. Peter’s mother-in-law (Jewish) 8:16-17
Teachings on discipleship 8:18-22
a. The legal expert (“a scribe”)
b. A hesitant “disciple” (one who followed Jesus), [hyperbole?-cf. Matt. 5:29–30]​

2. Second set of 3 miracles 8:23-9:17

1. Calming of the storm 8:23-27
2. Exorcism of the demoniacs 8:28-34
3. Healing of the paralytic 9:1-8
Teachings on discipleship 9:9-17
a. The call of Matthew-9:9
b. The meal with sinners 9:10-13
c. Questions about fasting 9:14-17​

3. Third set of 3 miracles

1. Jesus raises the daughter of a synagogue official 9:18-19, 23-26 and heals the bleeding woman 9;20-22
2. Jesus heals two blind men 9:27-31
3. Jesus heals the demon-possessed mute man 9:32-34
Teachings on discipleship - focus on mission, appeal for workers 9:35-38​

The point is this - the passage (Matthew 8:18-22) is not teaching about burial, it is teaching about discipleship!

Rob

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I taught through Matthew a few years ago.

Here's a portion of the outline I used that deals with this passage, (adapted from the Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament, Matthew, by David L. Turner)

Galilean ministry continues Matthew 8:1–11:1
A. Narrative 2: Three cycles of miracles and discipleship (8:1–10:4)

1. First set of 3 miracle stories

1. The leper (Jewish) 8:1-4
2. The centurion’s servant (Roman) 8:5-13
3. Peter’s mother-in-law (Jewish) 8:16-17
Teachings on discipleship 8:18-22
a. The legal expert (“a scribe”)
b. A hesitant “disciple” (one who followed Jesus), [hyperbole?-cf. Matt. 5:29–30]​

2. Second set of 3 miracles 8:23-9:17

1. Calming of the storm 8:23-27
2. Exorcism of the demoniacs 8:28-34
3. Healing of the paralytic 9:1-8
Teachings on discipleship 9:9-17
a. The call of Matthew-9:9
b. The meal with sinners 9:10-13
c. Questions about fasting 9:14-17​

3. Third set of 3 miracles

1. Jesus raises the daughter of a synagogue official 9:18-19, 23-26 and heals the bleeding woman 9;20-22
2. Jesus heals two blind men 9:27-31
3. Jesus demon-possessed mute man 9:32-34
Teachings on discipleship - focus on mission, appeal for workers 9:35-38​

The point is this - the passage is not teaching about burial, it is teaching about discipleship!

Rob

As I stated above, many theologians and I reject this method of doing theology by claiming that passages are only "about" certain things. Such a theological method greatly truncates what Scripture reveals and impoverishes God's people in the process.

 

[Deacon]

As I stated above, many theologians and I reject this method of doing theology by claiming that passages are only "about" certain things. Such a theological method greatly truncates what Scripture reveals and impoverishes God's people in the process.

So you miss the forest by focusing on the leaves.
In other words look for the message Jesus was teaching.
Don't get distracted along the way.

Rob

 

[Lodic]

It is not at all commendable that you dismiss the actual wording of the passage and paraphrase it to support your views. The texts speak explicitly about burial in both the disciple's statement and in Jesus' response.

I'm not paraphrasing what Jesus said at all. I am using the entire context to support my views, which shows what Jesus was actually teaching. Has nothing to do with actually burying the dead, but what it means to live totally committed to Christ. You are picking out the "burial" phrases and ignoring what Jesus is saying.