What Do Matthew 8:22 and Luke 9:60 Teach about Burial?

[Aaron]

Matt. 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.



Luke 9:57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.


In both passages, the text is explicit that Jesus did not address these statement to unbelievers. He addressed them to certain ones of His disciples who called Him "Lord."

Moreover, Jesus' responses in both passages do not explicitly command unbelievers to do anything. The commands that He gave in these passages were directed to His disciples.

Maybe Jesus was teaching about foxes? I like stories about foxes. Did you see that movie, The Fox and the Hound?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Except they are not about burial. Context is King. You have removed them from their context in order to eisegetically come to the completely wrong conclusion. Those verses are about choosing proper priorities given the call they received. What was more important? Following God's call or doing those things. That however doesn't have an application for exactly what we should do today. In other words we do not need to skip funerals to go to missions.

Have you never studied systematic theology? Your comment, as have been the comments of so many, is a denial of a foundational aspect of using systematic theology to establish what Scripture teaches and what is true. Go to any good textbook on systematic theology and you will find the author(s) doing exactly what I have done on every subject that they treat.

If you deny the legitimacy of systematic theology, you hold a wrong position.

Moreover, I have not removed anything from its context. The context does not change what those words mean or say. Jesus did make statements about burial in these verses. Either those statements are true statements concerning burial or they are not. If you assert that they are false statements, then you are asserting that Jesus made false statements, which would be obviously completely unacceptable and erroneous to hold.

 

[Revmitchell]

Have you never studied systematic theology? Your comment, as have been the comments of so many, is a denial of a foundational aspect of using systematic theology to establish what Scripture teaches and what is true. Go to any good textbook on systematic theology and you will find the author(s) doing exactly what I have done on every subject that they treat.

If you deny the legitimacy of systematic theology, you hold a wrong position.

Moreover, I have not removed anything from its context. The context does not change what those words mean or say. Jesus did make statements about burial in these verses. Either those statements are true statements concerning burial or they are not. If you assert that they are false statements, then you are asserting that Jesus made false statements, which would be obviously completely unacceptable and erroneous to hold.

You seem to be confusing hermeneutics with systematic theology. Jesus statements are true what is untrue is your understanding on why they were used and how to properly apply them.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You seem to be confusing hermeneutics with systematic theology. Jesus statements are true what is untrue is your understanding on why they were used and how to properly apply them.

This remark shows that you either do not understand how systematic theology is done or deny its legitimacy. Either way, you are wrong.

Systematic theology takes a subject and looks at everything in Scripture that pertains to that subject, regardless of whether passages are "about" that subject, as you and many others understand what it means for a passage to be "about" something.

According to your approach to Scripture, passages that show the deity of Christ but do not have His deity as "the main point" are not teaching "about" His deity. Taking that approach, you would wrongly truncate the biblical evidence for the deity of Christ.

Similarly, you are mistaken in your assertions about my handling of these verses.

 

[Revmitchell]

This remark shows that you either do not understand how systematic theology is done or deny its legitimacy. Either way, you are wrong.

Systematic theology takes a subject and looks at everything in Scripture that pertains to that subject, regardless of whether passages are "about" that subject, as you and many others understand what it means for a passage to be "about" something.

According to your approach to Scripture, passages that show the deity of Christ but do not have His deity as "the main point" are not teaching "about" His deity. Taking that approach, you would wrongly truncate the biblical evidence for the deity of Christ.

Similarly, you are mistaken in your assertions about my handling of these verses.

I dont have the patience to explain why 1+1=2

so for that reason…….im out

 

[canadyjd]

This remark shows that you either do not understand how systematic theology is done or deny its legitimacy. Either way, you are wrong.

Systematic theology takes a subject and looks at everything in Scripture that pertains to that subject, regardless of whether passages are "about" that subject, as you and many others understand what it means for a passage to be "about" something.

According to your approach to Scripture, passages that show the deity of Christ but do not have His deity as "the main point" are not teaching "about" His deity. You thereby wrongly truncate the biblical evidence for the deity of Christ. Similarly, you are mistaken in your assertions about my handling of these verses.

So, according to your wide understanding of the topic of burial that you obtained in your use of systematic theology,…. as an expert….

Does scripture say there are any consequences if we don’t get the burial right? Does scripture say there are consequences if a person is cremated?

I appeal to you to share your knowledge gained thorough systematic theological study of this topic of “premier importance” to answer this one simple question.

If you do not answer, I will conclude the answer is “no”, scripture does not say anything about consequences if we get burial wrong.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

So, according to your wide understanding of the topic of burial that you obtained in your use of systematic theology,…. as an expert….

Candy - - do you think he might give us a recap of his theological training?

 

[canadyjd]

Candy - - do you think he might give us a recap of his theological training?

I don’t think it would take very long. He’s got gumption though, to lecture Revmichell about systematic theology, telling him how he doesn’t understand basically anything… wow!

I don’t always agree with Rev, but I certainly respect his knowledge and approach to scripture and theological issues. He does focus on context like a laser beam… except when he disagrees with me….

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I loved the way he stated his comment about burial being of “premier importance” was in the last thread on “burial”, so he doesn’t have to talk about it now.

It won’t take long for him to realize careless comments tend to follow you around this board, especially when you accuse others of being essentially ignorant of how to study the Bible.

Peace to you

 

[Aaron]

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

What do these verses teach about burial?

Note: This thread is not about types of burial, how burial was done in the past or is done today, how burial should or should not be done today, or any other such subjects. It is a discussion of what these specific passages teach about the subject.

Only after these verses have been very carefully and thoroughly exegeted, this thread is to be a discussion of their relevance on what Scripture does or does not teach about burial versus cremation.

If you are not interested in discussing specifically in this manner these passages and their biblical relevance to the debates about burial versus cremation, please start your own thread to discuss whatever else you would like to discuss.

How about just getting to the point and tell us what your conclusions are?

 

[CalTech]

They're not instructive about burial at all.

Greetings,

Oh......Yes they are.....just as the rest of the Old & New Testament give details about burying. Just read them......
The word it self "bury" means "bury".


The Lord bless you....
In His Love....

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Greetings,

Oh......Yes they are.....just as the rest of the Old & New Testament give details about burying. Just read them......
The word it self "bury" means "bury".


The Lord bless you....
In His Love....

Precisely. It's astounding how many people refuse to deal with what Jesus actually said. They basically want to treat these verses as if Jesus responded to the disciple's request to bury his own father with nothing more than a demand to follow Him. Such an approach to Scripture removes divinely inspired words from the texts . . .

 

[CalTech]

How about just getting to the point and tell us what your conclusions are?

Greetings,

He did, you, like the other's just do not care for his answer's and directions. Because it is honest and to the point.

Php_2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
1Ti_6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,


The Lord bless you.....
In His Love....

 

[JonC]

This remark shows that you either do not understand how systematic theology is done or deny its legitimacy. Either way, you are wrong.

Systematic theology takes a subject and looks at everything in Scripture that pertains to that subject, regardless of whether passages are "about" that subject, as you and many others understand what it means for a passage to be "about" something.

According to your approach to Scripture, passages that show the deity of Christ but do not have His deity as "the main point" are not teaching "about" His deity. Taking that approach, you would wrongly truncate the biblical evidence for the deity of Christ.

Similarly, you are mistaken in your assertions about my handling of these verses.

@Revmitchell is correct. Systematic Theology begins with other theological disciplines. You are simply removing a word from its context and reading into the passage.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

@Revmitchell is correct. Systematic Theology begins with other theological disciplines. You are simply removing a word from its context and reading into the passage.

You are refusing to deal with actual divinely inspired words. I am not reading anything into the passage.

Jesus did have something to say about what was to be done about the body of the disciple's father.

Jesus did not merely respond by saying that the disciple was to follow him.

Jesus did not respond by telling the disciple that he should have no concern for what happens to his father's body after his father's death.

Jesus did not respond by saying that the disciple should allow unbelievers to do whatever they want with his father's body because what happens to the body after death does not matter at all.

Jesus most certainly did not say that it would be fine if the disciple's father's body would be cremated.

Whether you like it or not, Jesus did have something to say about what was to be done with the body of the disciple's father.

 

[CalTech]

You are refusing to deal with actual divinely inspired words. I am not reading anything into the passage.

Jesus did have something to say about what was to be done about the body of the disciple's father.

Jesus did not merely respond by saying that the disciple was to follow him.

Jesus did not respond by telling the disciple that he should have no concern for what happens to his father's body after his father's death.

Jesus did not respond by saying that the disciple should allow unbelievers to do whatever they want with his father's body because what happens to the body after death does not matter at all.

Jesus most certainly did not say that it would be fine if his father's body would be cremated.

Whether you like it or not, Jesus did have something to say about what was to be done with the body of the disciple's father.

Greetings,

AMEN!!!


Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

The Lord bless you.....
In His Love....

 

[Lodic]

You are refusing to deal with actual divinely inspired words. I am not reading anything into the passage.

Jesus did have something to say about what was to be done about the body of the disciple's father.

Jesus did not merely respond by saying that the disciple was to follow him.

Jesus did not respond by telling the disciple that he should have no concern for what happens to his father's body after his father's death.

Jesus did not respond by saying that the disciple should allow unbelievers to do whatever they want with his father's body because what happens to the body after death does not matter at all.

Jesus most certainly did not say that it would be fine if the disciple's father's body would be cremated.

Whether you like it or not, Jesus did have something to say about what was to be done with the body of the disciple's father.

Jumping back in with the same question that @canadyjd has been asking. Does Jesus say what the consequences are if His followers do not bury the bodies of our loved ones? If so, please elaborate. Where do we find these further details? Question open to either you or to @CalTech, or anyone who can provide passages that answer this question.

[EDIT] In your view, would those who have cremated their loved ones have committed a sin out of ignorance of Christ's instructions? My parents were buried because that was what they wanted. My sister's husband was cremated because that was what they wanted. All family members in these situations.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Jumping back in with the same question that @canadyjd has been asking. Does Jesus say what the consequences are if His followers do not bury the bodies of our loved ones? If so, please elaborate. Where do we find these further details? Question open to either you or to @CalTech, or anyone who can provide passages that answer this question.

[EDIT] In your view, would those who have cremated their loved ones have committed a sin out of ignorance of Christ's instructions? My parents were buried because that was what they wanted. My sister's husband was cremated because that was what they wanted. All family members in these situations.

Within the limits of my present understanding of Scripture, I cannot offer you any direct statements that answer your question or give details about "what the consequences are if His followers do not bury the bodies of our loved ones?"

Having said that, God does provide revelation that speaks of His intense displeasure with people who burned the bones of another human to lime:

Amos 2:1 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime:

2 But I will send a fire upon Moab, and it shall devour the palaces of Kirioth: and Moab shall die with tumult, with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet:

3 And I will cut off the judge from the midst thereof, and will slay all the princes thereof with him, saith the Lord.

This passage speaks of fierce divine judgment on Moab because of what they did in that respect (and in their other transgressions).

More importantly, I would urge you not to adopt the mindset of what will happen to me if I do what is contrary to what God has said, etc. Those whose hearts are completely toward God will be sensitive to His leading through whatever ways He makes known His mind.

What Jesus said in Matt. 8:22 and Luke 9:60 matters.

 

[Van]

The NET bible footnote concerning Matthew 8:22.
41sn There are several options for the meaning of Jesus’ reply Leave the dead to bury their own dead: (1) Recent research suggests that burial customs in the vicinity of Jerusalem from about 20 b.c. to a.d. 70 involved a reinterment of the bones a year after the initial burial, once the flesh had rotted away. At that point the son would have placed his father’s bones in a special box known as an ossuary to be set into the wall of the tomb. Thus Jesus could well be rebuking the man for wanting to wait around for as much as a year before making a commitment to follow him. In 1st century Jewish culture, to have followed Jesus rather than burying one’s father would have seriously dishonored one’s father (cf. Tobit 4:3-4). (2) The remark is an idiom (possibly a proverbial saying) that means, “The matter in question is not the real issue,” in which case Jesus was making a wordplay on the wording of the man’s (literal) request (see L&N 33.137). (3) This remark could be a figurative reference to various kinds of people, meaning, “Let the spiritually dead bury the dead.” (4) It could also be literal and designed to shock the hearer by the surprise of the contrast. Whichever option is preferred, it is clear that the most important priority is to follow Jesus. [emphasis added]

 

[CalTech]

Within the limits of my present understanding of Scripture, I cannot offer you any direct statements that answer your question or give details about "what the consequences are if His followers do not bury the bodies of our loved ones?"

Having said that, God does provide revelation that speaks of His intense displeasure with people who burned the bones of another human to lime:

Amos 2:1 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime:

2 But I will send a fire upon Moab, and it shall devour the palaces of Kirioth: and Moab shall die with tumult, with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet:

3 And I will cut off the judge from the midst thereof, and will slay all the princes thereof with him, saith the Lord.

This passage speaks of fierce divine judgment on Moab because of what they did in that respect (and in their other transgressions).

More importantly, I would urge you not to adopt the mindset of what will happen to me if I do what is contrary to what God has said, etc. Those whose hearts are completely toward God will be sensitive to His leading through whatever ways He makes known His mind.

What Jesus said in Matt. 8:22 and Luke 9:60 matters.

Greetings,

A resounding AMEN!

"Amos 2:1 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime:"

2Co_13:1 ....... In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


The Lord bless you abundantly! For you are a second witness to the scripture which I also had provided to reveal the Lord's will regarding "burning or cremation" in a much earlier posting in my original Thread, which was closed....

The Lord bless you....
In His Love...