What Do Matthew 8:22 and Luke 9:60 Teach about Burial?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Apart from when He has authorized it, God hates it when people use fire to destroy human bodies (Amos 2:1-3). He has only authorized the use of fire to punish certain wicked people by burning them (Lev. 21:9). He has never authorized His people to use fire to destroy their own bodies or the bodies of their loved ones.

Burial is the will of God, as seen in both Testaments (Eccl. 6:3; Matt. 8:22; Luke 9:60). It is tragic how many of God's people have adopted the vile, pagan expedient of cremation instead of what He has divinely authorized and commended.

 

[JonC]

Apart from when He has authorized it, God hates it when people use fire to destroy human bodies (Amos 2:1-3). He has only authorized the use of fire to punish certain wicked people by burning them (Lev. 21:9). He has never authorized His people to use fire to destroy their own bodies or the bodies of their loved ones.

Burial is the will of God, as seen in both Testaments (Eccl. 6:3; Matt. 8:22; Luke 9:60). It is tragic how many of God's people have adopted the vile, pagan expedient of cremation instead of what He has divinely authorized and commended.

It is amazing how far you will go to "prove" your opinions.

Cremation versus burying in the ground vs Hebrew burial.....all of this pales in comparison to your disrespect for God's Word.

 

[CalTech]

It is telling that on a forum discussing burial in Scripture you consider the Hebrew method of burial (to include Christ's burial) as "worthless information".

Greetings,

You stated this: "The irony is our embalming, caskets and vaults are designed to prevent as much as possible man returning to dust. Cremation, however, takes care of that issue rather quickly."

That statement has nothing to do with "Hebrew method of burial".
That is what is "worthless".......

Again typically you twist the whole conversation away from the scriptural basis that cremation is never mentioned as a process for the Jewish people and for present day believer's. You have no Biblical support for your "processed" thinking that cremation is acceptable, and that is called evasion.

Until you do so, then there is no further conversation to be had.

Simple....
The Lord bless you....
In His Love....

 

[CalTech]

Unbelievable............such worthless information.....

Greetings,

Your rating "

Prayers x 1"
Is a fake response, why you may ask? The Lord only will grant answers to prayer to those who approach Him with clean hands and pure heart. This response is just a show, nothing more.

Job 17:9 The righteous also shall hold on his way, and he that hath clean hands shall be stronger and stronger.

The Lord bless you....
In His Love....

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

It is amazing how far you will go to "prove" your opinions.

Cremation versus burying in the ground vs Hebrew burial.....all of this pales in comparison to your disrespect for God's Word.

You refuse to accept what God says in His Word. I did not write any of those verses. They are all divine revelation.

 

[JonC]

Greetings,

You stated this: "The irony is our embalming, caskets and vaults are designed to prevent as much as possible man returning to dust. Cremation, however, takes care of that issue rather quickly."

That statement has nothing to do with "Hebrew method of burial".
That is what is "worthless".......

Again typically you twist the whole conversation away from the scriptural basis that cremation is never mentioned as a process for the Jewish people and for present day believer's. You have no Biblical support for your "processed" thinking that cremation is acceptable, and that is called evasion.

Until you do so, then there is no further conversation to be had.

Simple....
The Lord bless you....
In His Love....

When we study Scripture one of the first tasks is to identify the differences and similarities of the original audience and the contemporary reader.

The Hebrew tradition of burial is not insignificant. This is how we know the meaning of the word "bury". This is how we know that it was a ritual lasting several days. The washing of the body, wrapping, anointing, placing in a tomb...even the second burial (the removal and washing of the bones, etc.) Is important if we want to understand what the word means.

If we do not identify these things we end up with a skewed picture of the NT text. We end up thinking they buried people in the ground, that there was an inn (like a hotel) in Bethlehem, etc.).

Scripture is important.

 

[JonC]

You refuse to accept what God says in His Word. I did not write any of those verses. They are all divine revelation.

No. I accept every word. You are inventing meanings for those verses, removing words out of context.

If you are able, I suggest learning how to read Scripture. You are not the only one with that problem, biblical illiteracy is an issue throughout the Christian community.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

No. I accept every word. You are inventing meanings for those verses, removing words out of context.

If you are able, I suggest learning how to read Scripture. You are not the only one with that problem, biblical illiteracy is an issue throughout the Christian community.

Typical claims not backed up with any evidence. Just say that someone is wrong and not back it up with actual argumentation.

There is no question that what Solomon was talking about in Eccl. 6:3 was not burning the body in fire in any sense. The same goes for every one of all the other verses that speak of burial. There are zero verses in Scripture that support Christians giving either their bodies or the bodies of their loved ones to be burned after they have died.

 

[CalTech]

When we study Scripture one of the first tasks is to identify the differences and similarities of the original audience and the contemporary reader.

The Hebrew tradition of burial is not insignificant. This is how we know the meaning of the word "bury". This is how we know that it was a ritual lasting several days. The washing of the body, wrapping, anointing, placing in a tomb...even the second burial (the removal and washing of the bones, etc.) Is important if we want to understand what the word means.

If we do not identify these things we end up with a skewed picture of the NT text. We end up thinking they buried people in the ground, that there was an inn (like a hotel) in Bethlehem, etc.).

Scripture is important.

Greetings,
"Scripture is important."

You make a mockery of discussing Scriptures, because you never use Scriptures to support Cremation, so everything you have stated against me is exactly what YOU are doing.
This discussion from my side is over, I do not deal with dishonesty........

In His Love.....

 

[Lodic]

I was just doing a little more study regarding Amos 2:1-3, where God brought judgment on Moab for burning the bones of the king of Edom. This is a point where understanding the culture is important. Such burning indicated special contempt, and was thought to deprive the dead of peace in the afterlife. In 2 Kings 23:15-16, King Josiah burned the bones of false priests on the altar at Bethel. In our culture, cremation is not done out of contempt, but simply as an alternative to burial.

Compare 1 Corinthians 14:33-35, where Paul writes that women should remain silent in churches. This was very specific to that culture, and not a rule that is "carved in stone". Unless you believe that women should literally be silent from the moment they step into the church until they leave.

There has been some discussion of "systematic Bible study" on this thread. While I've heard the term, I'm not very familiar with what it looks like. However, if this study of placing so much emphasis on what to do with our bodies after we die is an example of how we are to "systematically" study the Bible, count me out. Personally, I prefer the "inductive" study method, where we ask questions to understand the Scripture. Who is talking? What did he mean? How did the original audience understand it? How does it point to Christ? What impact does this have on my life?

Regarding the last question, I don't believe decisions about burial vs cremation make any difference whatsoever. I've never seen God express His anger on anyone for cremating their loved ones. No curses, no unusual financial problems, no unusual health issues, nothing. Certainly this doesn't affect one's salvation, since we are saved by grace through faith. This seems legalistic and pointless.

 

[JonC]

Typical claims not backed up with any evidence. Just say that someone is wrong and not back it up with actual argumentation.

There is no question that what Solomon was talking about in Eccl. 6:3 was not burning the body in fire in any sense. The same goes for every one of all the other verses that speak of burial. There are zero verses in Scripture that support Christians giving either their bodies or the bodies of their loved ones to be burned after they have died.

The issue is context and what is actually written in the Word of God.

I am not trying to be rude or insulting to you. I am trying to help you.

It is obvious that you engage in eisegesis. The reason is you have an opinion and ate teaching into Scripture for support. You are trying to use God.

There are no passages in Scripture that prohibit cremation. There are no passages that prescribe one means of burial.

Cremation meets the definition of burying ones dead (the definition in the NT).

What Scripture does teach is adhering to the customs of burial (e.g., Joseph was Hebrew, but he was buried according to the pagan customs of Egypt).

There are zero passages that support any specific method of treating the bodies of the deceased.

Those who embalm, use a casket, and bury the body underground are practicing a form of burial foreign to Scripture.

 

[JonC]

Greetings,
"Scripture is important."

You make a mockery of discussing Scriptures, because you never use Scriptures to support Cremation, so everything you have stated against me is exactly what YOU are doing.
This discussion from my side is over, I do not deal with dishonesty........

In His Love.....

There are no passages supporting burying a body in a casket underground. There are no passages supporting cremation.

The only support for either is in principle (Joseph, a Hebrew, bring buried in the pagan Egyptian manner).

I am saying we cannot go to Scripture to justify burying underground, using a casket, cremation, driving a car, using a cell phone, using a church program, etc. because these things were foreign to the Hebrew and Apostolic Church experience.

I am not sure what you think you gain by placing "in His love" on your post, as if it is a spell to undo how you posted.

 

[Salty]

So Scripture more accurately
will you share your theological training with us.

May we assume that a negative reply means the answer is none.

If so makes me think of the author of 88 reasons......

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I was just doing a little more study regarding Amos 2:1-3, where God brought judgment on Moab for burning the bones of the king of Edom. This is a point where understanding the culture is important. Such burning indicated special contempt, and was thought to deprive the dead of peace in the afterlife. In 2 Kings 23:15-16, King Josiah burned the bones of false priests on the altar at Bethel. In our culture, cremation is not done out of contempt, but simply as an alternative to burial.

You have missed a crucial point. God is the One who judged the Moabites for what they did. He was not following the cultural opinions of any people.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The issue is context and what is actually written in the Word of God.

I am not trying to be rude or insulting to you. I am trying to help you.

It is obvious that you engage in eisegesis. The reason is you have an opinion and ate teaching into Scripture for support. You are trying to use God.

There are no passages in Scripture that prohibit cremation. There are no passages that prescribe one means of burial.

Cremation meets the definition of burying ones dead (the definition in the NT).

What Scripture does teach is adhering to the customs of burial (e.g., Joseph was Hebrew, but he was buried according to the pagan customs of Egypt).

There are zero passages that support any specific method of treating the bodies of the deceased.

Those who embalm, use a casket, and bury the body underground are practicing a form of burial foreign to Scripture.

Your pronouncing that I am doing eisegesis does not make it so. You refuse to deal with the text. It is telling that you do not offer any treatment of Scripture when you make your pronouncements to support your assertions.

You are welcome to prove your claim that "cremation meets the definition of burying ones dead (the definition in the NT)." Merely asserting it does not make it so.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

May we assume that a negative reply means the answer is none.

If so makes me think of the author of 88 reasons......

You may assume whatever you like. I am not interested in sharing any information about this matter.

I do not want any such considerations to be one more way that the discussions are diverted away from actual discussion of the Bible itself. No one needs to know anything about such things to be able to assess what is being said about the Bible.

 

[JonC]

Your pronouncing that I am doing eisegesis does not make it so. You refuse to deal with the text. It is telling that you do not offer any treatment of Scripture when you make your pronouncements to support your assertions.

You are welcome to prove your claim that "cremation meets the definition of burying ones dead (the definition in the NT)." Merely asserting it does not make it so.

You are. The passage does not prescribe any method of burial. You are reading into the text.

I am not saying they cremated in the NT. I am saying it meets the definition of "burial" as the focus is on the rite or traditions. Peter was not asking to dig a hole, to open a tomb, or to prepare the body.

Words have meanings, and you are prescribing a contemporary meaning to an English word representing an ancient Greek word. You are wrong.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You are. The passage does not prescribe any method of burial. You are reading into the text.

I am not saying they cremated in the NT. I am saying it meets the definition of "burial" as the focus is on the rite or traditions. Peter was not asking to dig a hole, to open a tomb, or to prepare the body.

Words have meanings, and you are prescribing a contemporary meaning to an English word representing an ancient Greek word. You are wrong.

You appear to be wrongly claiming that the word "burial" has no inherent meaning to it and is just an empty shell or placeholder that you can fill with whatever meaning you want to. That's not how language works. The word itself has a meaning. If you want to say legitimately that a word has a particular core meaning, you have to prove it.

I am not reading anything into the text. I am rightly stating that the word "burial" in both Testaments never does and cannot refer in any way to cremation.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you speak of Peter.

You claim that the definition of "burial" in the NT has "as the focus is on the rite or traditions." Do you have any proof of that or do you think that your merely asserting makes it so?

You say, "Words have meanings, and you are prescribing a contemporary meaning to an English word representing an ancient Greek word. You are wrong."

I have not prescribed "any contemporary meaning to an English word representing an ancient Greek word." The Greek words in the NT and the Hebrew words in the OT for bury/burial never have anything to do with cremation. It is you who wrongly asserts that the modern conception of the English word "cremation" fits with the meaning of those ancient Greek and Hebrew words.

It is telling that you do not actually go to Scripture and treat it in detail to support your claims.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

An excellent article: Is Cremation Christian?

 

[Revmitchell]

This remark shows that you either do not understand how systematic theology is done or deny its legitimacy. Either way, you are wrong.

Systematic theology takes a subject and looks at everything in Scripture that pertains to that subject, regardless of whether passages are "about" that subject, as you and many others understand what it means for a passage to be "about" something.

According to your approach to Scripture, passages that show the deity of Christ but do not have His deity as "the main point" are not teaching "about" His deity. Taking that approach, you would wrongly truncate the biblical evidence for the deity of Christ.

Similarly, you are mistaken in your assertions about my handling of these verses.

Hermeneutics:

1. the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.
   
   
   Systematic Theology:
   
   The attempt to organize all Christian doctrine in a logical order.
   
   Systematic Theology is looking at Christian doctrines from an overview position. Hermeneutics is the attempt to interpret scripture on the micro level. It is you who does not know what they are talking about and is ripping a word out of its context and then working to place it in another context divorced from the passage you are misusing. That does violence to scripture.
   
   But, even using your errant method of hermeneutics you have backed yourself into a corner you cannot get out of. The passages you quote say "let the dead bury the dead". So here are some questions you are forced to deal with using your faulty hermeneutics:
   
   1. Who are the dead that are the only ones allowed to bury the dead? Don't forget Jesus said only dead people are allowed to bury dead people. So you have to stick with what it says?
   2. How come only dead people are allowed to bury dead people? Since we are not allowed to use context to properly interpret, according to your personal rules, how are you going to be able to answer this question?
   
   I patiently wait your well thought out and properly exegeted answer.