What Do You Base The Tithe On?

[saturneptune]

I have heard many sermons on tithes and offerings over the years. There is another thread going on that asks if we should tithe. The obvious answer is yes. However, I have heard many different sermons with different standards for calculating the tithe. Here is some examples.

The tithe should be based on (least to greatest)

10% after living expenses
Net income
Gross income
Gross income + benefits
Gross income + benefits + social security match
Gross income + benefits + social security match + interest and dividends

There are some other more detailed categories, but you get the idea. What should we base the tithe on? Is there Scriptural standards other than the opinion of the Pastor and the budget of the church? Is there any equivalent in the OT?

 

[annsni]

Any income. Period.

 

[Inspector Javert]

New Testament Christians do not "TITHE"....they GIVE.

"Tithing" is only of Agricultural Produce....it is not money.

New Testament Christians "Give" of all they have graciously, and sacrificially...they don't "tithe" anything.......anyone who preaches that you should is in grave error.

 

[Thousand Hills]

SN, you might enjoy this:

http://sbcheritage.com/what-is-my-tithe-a-1920s-southern-baptist-response/

 

[Inspector Javert]

Is there Scriptural standards other than the opinion of the Pastor and the budget of the church?

No........It is entirely a construct of a professional class of Nicolaitanes..........only your "Pastors" and other paid professionals can derive this and blame it on the Scriptures.

Is there any equivalent in the OT?

NONE..........ZERO........NADA...... IF there were......you'd have read it for yourself by now. But you haven't, have you? You've no doubt put a little effort into reading those texts before have you not? Read most of the O.T. by now???? Bet you have...didn't teach you to "tithe" though, did it?

It's not there.

 

[Inspector Javert]

SN, you might enjoy this:

http://sbcheritage.com/what-is-my-tithe-a-1920s-southern-baptist-response/

What a load of CRAP!!!!
Why did he immediately ignore what Lev 27:30 teaches?
The article said this:
in Lev. 27:30, these words, “all the tithe * * * it is holy unto the Lord.”

His immediate conclusion was found in the next paragraph...and it's this:
To correctly tithe, one must give one-tenth of one’s net income.

But this man is an idiot or a liar..here's what it teaches:
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, <---those are agricultural products...not money is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Next verse.......(context in our world) which this editor ignored:

Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
So...apparently...a guy can "redeem" or "buy back" his agricultural produce with MONEY!!!!..............DUH!!!!!

Only if you want to exchange your $$$ currency for your agricultural product would you seek to buy it back....no?

Does this simpleton think Leviticus 27:31 is teaching people how to not pay a monetary tithe by instead agreeing to add 20% of monetary value
TO IT!
Must be...that's what's going on. :laugh:.....Yeah, I'll agree to not pay a 100$monetary tithe by offering instead to pay a 120$ monetary tithe...LOL :laugh:

HE does actually....and he maintains that there is presumably a complicated mathematical formulae which is (I presume) CLEARLY OBVIOUS...which works like this:
In the case cited, if the offer was for a salary of $375 and the deacon furnish his own house there could be no argument but that $37.50 would be the proper monthly tithe less, as stated above, the necessary expenses other than the necessary living expenses in order to earn this salary, such as car fare, etc. <---all of this is clearly Biblical you understand.

In a case where the salary is given, $300 and a residence given valued at $75 per month, I believe that the deacon would have the moral right to properly appraise, for his own use, the value of the residence to him per month and, therefore, for his tithe put a valuation on his monthly salary at a figure less than $375 if he could honestly under value the rent at less than it was appraised to him, and then his tithe would be based upon his full figure of the total value of his salary. :thumbs:

HUH???????????????

Get a grip just tell the well meaning Mr. Johnson.........that it wasn't MONEY that was "tithed" but AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS!!! There's no mathematical accounting for it.

New Testament Christians don't "Tithe"...they "give"........and if you are a member of the early Church.....it's 100%.....not 10.

 

[SaggyWoman]

You base it on where your heart is with God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Any income. Period.

to be done proportional basis, if the Lord blessed you greatly, give back greatly

To be done with a thankful, grateful heart

beeds to be given to local church before other ministries, TV or radio etc!

 

[webdog]

New Testament Christians do not "TITHE"....they GIVE.

"Tithing" is only of Agricultural Produce....it is not money.

New Testament Christians "Give" of all they have graciously, and sacrificially...they don't "tithe" anything.......anyone who preaches that you should is in grave error.

Exactly :thumbs:

Anyone that claims the NT believer is to tithe sits under the yoke of the law and conveniently picks and chooses what OT laws they want to abide by. The SDA's do the same thing with the sabbath.

 

[preachinjesus]

I give based on all income before taxes.

 

[InTheLight]

New Testament Christians "Give" of all they have graciously, and sacrificially...they don't "tithe" anything.

You base it on where your heart is with God.

This. :thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Salty]

II Cor 9:7

 

[saturneptune]

I give more than 10% of my earned gross. That does not mean everyone else should. The thing is, when the message of the tithe should be based on gross, plus social security match, plus health and life insurance benefits, plus retirement match, plus stock options, and on and on, by a pastor, is that message from his heart delivered by the Lord, or is the desire for an increased income slipping in. I cannot say that is any more than the rest of us do. If I am a liability lawyer, I want accidents to happen. If I own a McDonalds, I want customers loving my burgers. If I work for a tobacco company, I want you to smoke. If I am a politician in Washington, I want you to think there is a difference between the two parties.

I believe a good pastor should be paid a living wage, along with his staff within the constraints of the budget. It is our duty as members to support the local church in all aspects. That includes giving, attending, worship, fellowship, and perhaps most important of all, is visitation.

Our church, as Brother Tom can tell you, is not only aging, but super aging. We have more people in their 80s and 90s than we have between 15-55. Our offerings have been decreasing for some time, and the finance/budget committee had to make some drastic cuts, which at times is not easy. I am considered a young person at 61 which is a red flag. By the way, Brother Tom served on that committee, and they did a miraculous job for what they had to work with. Some of you have probably been down this road already, and may have gone to a part time pastor, and outsourced office and custodial help.

I deeply respect those on this board who are pastors and it shows in their posts. I cannot imagine the responsibilities that confront you all day to day. You have to be a minister, counselor, arbitrator, compromiser, and yet, defend the Scripture and Gospel to the letter. At times, not an easy task.

Given all of that, I do believe most pastors, when they preach a giving sermon, feel it is a problem that needs to be addressed, and are not looking for a Christmas bonus.

I do not know about the other local churches represented on this board, but even with the cuts, personnel expenses of our total budget hover around 62%.

 

[saturneptune]

II Cor 9:7

Probably best answer of the thread. I wonder sometimes though, what the Lord thinks. He has blessed me enough to give above 10%, yet still spend money on nonsense utilities like cable, cell phone, and internet. None of those is needed for a good standard of living. I wonder what the Lord thinks about the money spent on those bills and others that are not necessary, like eating out five times a week at times.

 

[Thousand Hills]

I believe a good pastor should be paid a living wage, along with his staff within the constraints of the budget. It is our duty as members to support the local church in all aspects. That includes giving, attending, worship, fellowship, and perhaps most important of all, is visitation.

Our church, as Brother Tom can tell you, is not only aging, but super aging. We have more people in their 80s and 90s than we have between 15-55. Our offerings have been decreasing for some time, and the finance/budget committee had to make some drastic cuts, which at times is not easy. I am considered a young person at 61 which is a red flag. By the way, Brother Tom served on that committee, and they did a miraculous job for what they had to work with. Some of you have probably been down this road already, and may have gone to a part time pastor, and outsourced office and custodial help.

I deeply respect those on this board who are pastors and it shows in their posts. I cannot imagine the responsibilities that confront you all day to day. You have to be a minister, counselor, arbitrator, compromiser, and yet, defend the Scripture and Gospel to the letter. At times, not an easy task.

Given all of that, I do believe most pastors, when they preach a giving sermon, feel it is a problem that needs to be addressed, and are not looking for a Christmas bonus.

I do not know about the other local churches represented on this board, but even with the cuts, personnel expenses of our total budget hover around 62%.

Our church sounds very similar, roughly our personnel expenses are around 50%, however, for the size of the church I feel some reductions should be made. (Pastor is overpaid IMO and secretary should be cut to part time).

Ours also is an aging church. In such the pastor is faced with two distinct expectations: being there for the aging membership (hospital visits, funerals, etc.) and somehow reaching out to younger families in the community. My opinion instead of paying one guy a huge salary, pay two or three part timers who will focus on different areas of need, etc. But I guess egos would get in the way.

Our pastor has made several comments over the past few months implying the congregation needs to dig a little deeper. I don't know and don't care what others are giving, but I would guess that the aging membership (many are widows) are typically on a fixed income and can give no more, while the few young families may be more impacted by the economy or don't see the importance of financially supporting the church (never been properly taught). However, if the church is putting first things first, I trust that God will provide.

Which makes what you say about the membership taking their duties seriously all the more important. All members have to buy in and be responsible for the generations behind them. In my particular church I see the end result, will likely be that the church will never grow and will slowly die off and be forced to go to a bi-vocational pastor as the only means to survive.

 

[Ed B]

I give more than 10% of my earned gross. That does not mean everyone else should. The thing is, when the message of the tithe should be based on gross, plus social security match, plus health and life insurance benefits, plus retirement match, plus stock options, and on and on, by a pastor, is that message from his heart delivered by the Lord, or is the desire for an increased income slipping in. .....

Even if one believes tithing is as binding on gentile Christians as it was for the Israelites, I do not see how a pastor can preach that tithing on the gross as you describe above is mandatory with a clear conscience. After all, he knows that the scripture says the tithe is to come from the increase. At best it is bad accounting, at worst....well, I would question the motive.

I have a Chiropractor friend and several years ago he was under condemnation from his pastor for not tithing his gross. In this case his gross was considered 10% of all receipts before paying rent on the facility, paying staff salaries, utilities on the office, before paying for equipment or supplies, etc. That was ludicrous and I suggested he not listen to another word that man said.

That is like saying when a farmer has 100 head of cattle and 10 calves are born in a year that the tithe should be 11, when the increase was only 10 and the actual tithe is 1.

For someone who believes tithing is a command for Christians, different people can argue whether the cost for wage earners of being employed should be deducted from what is considered an increase. But I hope we all agree that if we are going to teach strict tithing of our increase, that any money we save and which we have already paid the tithe on would be exempt from tithing obligations when it is taken out in future years. The increase from interest would be an increase, and one could make the case that tithing is due on that but not the money that was put aside earlier after paying their tithe. As I said, it is very bad accounting at best.


Giving graciously and sacrificially as the Lord leads throughout our lives is a better fit for modern economies and the Church and it fits the New Covenant examples in scripture. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is why our all knowing God did not impose storehouse tithing on Christians when Paul began the evangelization of the Gentiles.

 

[Revmitchell]

A pay check before taxes is the increase. Taxes do not change that just because the government gets their grubby hands on it first.

 

[annsni]

I have a Chiropractor friend and several years ago he was under condemnation from his pastor for not tithing his gross. In this case his gross was considered 10% of all receipts before paying rent on the facility, paying staff salaries, utilities on the office, before paying for equipment or supplies, etc. That was ludicrous and I suggested he not listen to another word that man said.

Umm - that's the increase of his business - not his own personal increase. His personal increase would be whatever he added to his own personal bank accounts.

 

[saturneptune]

Umm - that's the increase of his business - not his own personal increase. His personal increase would be whatever he added to his own personal bank accounts.

Ann, did you say your husband was a Presbyterian? If so, do they look at tithing the same way we do?

 

[annsni]

Ann, did you say your husband was a Presbyterian? If so, do they look at tithing the same way we do?

We used to be Presbyterian. Actually, he grew up in the Methodist church then we went to the Presbyterian church before we started dating and then were married there. He was an elder as well. But then we left there to go to the current Baptist church.

I remember the teaching being pretty much the same - the general tithing thing.