What Do You Believe about Demonic Activity in Compelled False Worship?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Whenever any sinful human succeeds in compelling others to engage in false worship, he advances the kingdom of the devil and his unrighteousness. Whenever the top leader of the most powerful empire in the world compels all the leaders of all the provinces in his empire to do so, he immensely advances the kingdom of the devil and his unrighteousness.

It is patent that the devil himself and his demons pay the closest attention to all such activities and exert their greatest efforts to promote the success of all such ventures by such sinful human leaders. They (the devil and his demons) will spare "no cost" to ensure that these events are filled with unrighteousness and pervert everything that is right in the sight of God as much as possible.

Agree or disagree?

 

[37818]

The question has an ambiguity in the words "as much as possible?" This being with or without God's intervention?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The question has an ambiguity in the words "as much as possible?" This being with or without God's intervention?

"As much as possible" takes into account whatever God allows because no one can do anything that God does not allow. Does that help?

 

[37818]

"As much as possible" takes into account whatever God allows because no one can do anything that God does not allow. Does that help?

Maybe not.
The fact is, Satan is behind false religion. A few verses which come to mind: 2 Corinthians 11:3-4. 2 Corinthians 11:13-14. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.

 

[Aaron]

The devil already has everyone that is not Christ's, so it's Christ's kingdom that advances, and what Christ gains can never be lost. I think the idea of "advancing" the kingdom of the devil by engaging in certain activities is a false premise.

There is a filling up of the cup of iniquity though, a sort of maturation. But the devil always owned the corrupt tree, even before it went into full bloom. The only thing the devil can do is lose.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The devil already has everyone that is not Christ's, so it's Christ's kingdom that advances, and what Christ gains can never be lost. I think the idea of "advancing" the kingdom of the devil by engaging in certain activities is a false premise.

There is a filling up of the cup of iniquity though, a sort of maturation. But the devil always owned the corrupt tree, even before it went into full bloom. The only thing the devil can do is lose.

You seem to be viewing things from a different perspective. Millions of humans are born every year who have never actively opposed God in anything that they have done.

As they grow up, the devil and his demons have abundant ground to advance his kingdom in human lives and the lives of nations by bringing more and more people into overt idolatry, practice of the occult, etc.

 

[Aaron]

You seem to be viewing things from a different perspective. Millions of humans are born every year who have never actively opposed God in anything that they have done.

As they grow up, the devil and his demons have abundant ground to advance his kingdom in human lives and the lives of nations by bringing more and more people into overt idolatry, practice of the occult, etc.

It is true we come from very different viewpoints. I believe in what is typically called original sin, which is really not something "passed," but something we all took part in because we were in Adam when he sinned, and we take part in the sentence of death. We're also corrupt, again not because of something that is passed, but something that is not passed, because it was lost, and that thing is life. So we're all still-born in a sense, and under the power of him who had the power of death.

Now Christ has the keys to death and hell. From every nation and every generation He has elect of which He is not willing that any should perish. so He rules the nations accordingly.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

It is true we come from very different viewpoints. I believe in what is typically called original sin, which is really not something "passed," but something we all took part in because we were in Adam when he sinned, and we take part in the sentence of death. We're also corrupt, again not because of something that is passed, but something that is not passed, because it was lost, and that thing is life. So we're all still-born in a sense, and under the power of him who had the power of death.

Now Christ has the keys to death and hell. From every nation and every generation He has elect of which He is not willing that any should perish. so He rules the nations accordingly.

This reply doesn't really pertain to the specifics of my opening post. Given an opportunity to pervert false worship that is forced on people, will Satan and his demons choose to pervert it as much as possible is what I am interested in discussing.

One specific Bible instance that I have in mind is what took place in Daniel 3 with Nebuchadnezzar's demanding that everyone bow to the idol that he made and worship it.

 

[Dave G]

You seem to be viewing things from a different perspective. Millions of humans are born every year who have never actively opposed God in anything that they have done.

The Bible says that all men actively oppose God, in their hearts.
Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, Psalms 10:1-11, Psalms 14:1-3 and many others.

This may seem "extreme" to many, but to sin is to actively oppose God.
Stated differently,
To not obey His command to love the Him with all our heart and with all our mind, and our neighbor as ourselves, is to actively oppose God.

We, as a race, do it every day.

As they grow up, the devil and his demons have abundant ground to advance his kingdom in human lives and the lives of nations by bringing more and more people into overt idolatry, practice of the occult, etc.

Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft ( 1 Samuel 15:23 )...
That is, to go against God and His commands is the same as actively being in partnership with those that have.

God lumps us all together...we are all under sin ( Romans 11:32, Galatians 3:22 ).

In other words,
Even if one does not practice outright witchcraft, they are still in their sins and still in their rebellion.

Only those who are in Christ are counted as not being part of that, my friend.

 

[Dave G]

Whenever any sinful human succeeds in compelling others to engage in false worship, he advances the kingdom of the devil and his unrighteousness. Whenever the top leader of the most powerful empire in the world compels all the leaders of all the provinces in his empire to do so, he immensely advances the kingdom of the devil and his unrighteousness.

It is patent that the devil himself and his demons pay the closest attention to all such activities and exert their greatest efforts to promote the success of all such ventures by such sinful human leaders. They (the devil and his demons) will spare "no cost" to ensure that these events are filled with unrighteousness and pervert everything that is right in the sight of God as much as possible.

Agree or disagree?

I think that it is a bit more complicated than that.
Even though I voted "yes", I find that I must qualify my vote a bit more:

I see that Satan does indeed try to "compel" people to worship something other than God;
Himself for example:

"...I will be like the Most High", Isaiah 14:12-21.

" And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine." ( Luke 4:6-7 )*

*Side note:
He tempted the Lord Jesus with all the kingdoms of the world, if He would worship him.
The irony of it all is that all the kingdoms of the world will belong to Jesus Christ anyway ( Revelation 11:15 ), and Satan himself will bow to Him instead ( Philippians 2:9-11 ).


Running parallel to this, we as men make false gods in whatever image that we like and bow to them ( Jeremiah 10:1-4, Psalms 115:4-8, Revelation 9:20, Isaiah 40:18-20, Jeremiah 16:20, etc )...
Either physically or in our minds.

Examples of this can be money, pleasure, and even loved ones like a wife or husband.

To me, the example of Nebuchadnezzar and the idol is the same as the end-times prophecy of the false prophet compelling anyone who does not bow to the image of the beast and to take his mark, to be put to death.
But, people do not bow to anything that they, ultimately, do not choose to bow to.

Those believers that live to see the Tribulation will not bow to the image of the beast,
and like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in Daniel 3, they will rather suffer death than bow to the image of a false god.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Whenever any sinful human succeeds in compelling others to engage in false worship, he advances the kingdom of the devil and his unrighteousness

See synonyms for: compel / compelled / compelling / compels on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), com·pelled, com·pel·ling.
to force or drive, especially to a course of action: His disregard of the rules compels us to dismiss him.
to secure or bring about by force.
to force to submit; subdue.
to overpower.

Please provide example(s) to support your position that sinners, on a large scale, are compelled to engage in false worship.

 

[Aaron]

This reply doesn't really pertain to the specifics of my opening post. Given an opportunity to pervert false worship that is forced on people, will Satan and his demons choose to pervert it as much as possible

Naturally. But it won't "advance his kingdom." He will not prevail against the Church.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

See synonyms for: compel / compelled / compelling / compels on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), com·pelled, com·pel·ling.
to force or drive, especially to a course of action: His disregard of the rules compels us to dismiss him.
to secure or bring about by force.
to force to submit; subdue.
to overpower.

Please provide example(s) to support your position that sinners, on a large scale, are compelled to engage in false worship.

I already have. Nebuchadnezzar in the event recorded in Daniel 3 compelled a large number of sinners to engage in false worship.

I never claimed that this was a frequent or widespread phenomenon, etc. I specified by beginning my OP by saying, "Whenever any sinful human succeeds in . . ."

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Naturally. But it won't "advance his kingdom." He will not prevail against the Church.

Advancing his kingdom and prevailing against the Church are not the same thing. Scripture says that "evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived" (2 Tim. 3:13). Whenever an event of the sort recorded in Daniel 3 takes place, there is a great advance in the kingdom of Satan and his unrighteousness.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The Bible says that all men actively oppose God, in their hearts.
Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, Psalms 10:1-11, Psalms 14:1-3 and many others.

This may seem "extreme" to many, but to sin is to actively oppose God.
Stated differently,
To not obey His command to love the Him with all our heart and with all our mind, and our neighbor as ourselves, is to actively oppose God.

We, as a race, do it every day.

Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft ( 1 Samuel 15:23 )...
That is, to go against God and His commands is the same as actively being in partnership with those that have.

God lumps us all together...we are all under sin ( Romans 11:32, Galatians 3:22 ).

In other words,
Even if one does not practice outright witchcraft, they are still in their sins and still in their rebellion.

Only those who are in Christ are counted as not being part of that, my friend.

Notwithstanding the many true statements that you have made here, it is important that we maintain that rebellion is in fact not the very same sin as witchcraft. Scripture explicitly distinguishes between the two in recounting why Saul died:

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

The Spirit explicitly emphasizes the importance of and distinguishes between two different sins by Saul in this statement.

 

[Dave G]

Notwithstanding the many true statements that you have made here, it is important that we maintain that rebellion is in fact not the very same sin as witchcraft. Scripture explicitly distinguishes between the two in recounting why Saul died:

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

The Spirit explicitly emphasizes the importance of and distinguishes between two different sins by Saul in this statement.

I agree.

It is not the exact same as the sin of witchcraft...
It is "as" the sin of witchcraft.
In other words, I see that to the Lord the sin of the heart in rebelling against Him,
is to put one's self in the same "boat" as the one who consorts with God's enemies.

In either case, that person or group of persons becomes unwitting accomplices, aiding and abetting God's enemies whether or not they actively ally themselves with another known enemy.

The principle is the same.
One is either on God's side, or the devil's:

" He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." ( Matthew 12:30 ).

Mark 9:40
Luke 9:50.
Luke 11:23.

 

[Strannik]

Well, if he did not contribute, then there would be no persecution of Christians. I think so.

 

[Aaron]

Advancing his kingdom and prevailing against the Church are not the same thing. Scripture says that "evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived" (2 Tim. 3:13). Whenever an event of the sort recorded in Daniel 3 takes place, there is a great advance in the kingdom of Satan and his unrighteousness.

Again, the devil already has anyone who is not Christ's. Anyway. I've said what I can say.

 

[percho]

I believe at the present time God is allowing the devil to roam free in the earth.
I believe at this present time the following is taking place.

Acts 15:14 Simeon did declare how at first God did look after to take out of the nations (Gentiles) a people for His name,

At some point that will have, come to past.

For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret -- that ye may not be wise in your own conceits -- that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations (Gentiles) may come in;

Then.

Acts 15:16 After this, I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
At that time.
Rev 20:1,2 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rom 11:26
Acts 15:17