What Do You Believe about Instrumental Music?

[AustinC]

I did not say they had anything to do with instrumental music but to show there was music at the creation, before man was made.

And it is not Job or his friends who are speaking in this passage.

It is straight from God's mouth and not figurative like only in some piece of fictional literature.

Sorry to shock you that there was singing for joy at the creation.

The comment from God is poetic and figurative. However, if you only intended to present that God created music, I accept that use. It seems then that you are expressing God's use of common grace to all humanity.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Lol. You presented me with no such thing, but it is a fitting response to the puerile notion that God takes pleasure in the types and shadows of the law, and that they are imperitives to the church, which knows those things fulfilled in Christ.

Those who worship God must worship in truth and in spirit. There is no machine that is an element thereof.

Interesting. If you think that Psalm 98 is revelation about the Law, that thinking is another major theological difference between our different understanding of Scripture that we are not going to come to any agreement about.

 

[Aaron]

Interesting. If you think that Psalm 98 is revelation about the Law, that thinking is another major theological difference between our different understanding of Scripture that we are not going to come to any agreement about.

*sigh*

My response isn't about your isolated post, but to your line of reasoning in the thread. Psalm 98 is metaphor, and unquestionably painted on an OT canvas, and your notions concerning the law are carried over into it. But, Psalm 98 isn't about the law anymore than burnt offering and sacrifice are about the law. The Law isn't about the law.

Doth God take care for oxen?

In the same spirit I may ask you, Doth God take care for trumpets? And the answer from a man of understanding would be the same.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

*sigh*

My response isn't about your isolated post, but to your line of reasoning in the thread. Psalm 98 is metaphor, and unquestionably painted on an OT canvas, and your notions concerning the law are carried over into it. But, Psalm 98 isn't about the law anymore than burnt offering and sacrifice are about the law. The Law isn't about the law.

Doth God take care for oxen?

In the same spirit I may ask you, Doth God take care for trumpets? And the answer from a man of understanding would be the same.

"Psalm 98 is a metaphor." Sure, whatever you say. With that kind of hermeneutic, the Bible can be made to say whatever anyone wants it to say.

 

[Aaron]

"Psalm 98 is a metaphor." Sure, whatever you say. With that kind of hermeneutic, the Bible can be made to say whatever anyone wants it to say.

After all, one of Jesus's most famous sayings is, "Dad likes harps. Better have some harps."

 

[SGO]

Us harpists love to harp.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

After all, one of Jesus's most famous sayings is, "Dad likes harps. Better have some harps."[/QUOTE

God gave Jesus the book of Revelation to give it to John to reveal to believers what God wants us to know (Rev. 1:1). Revelation shows that harps are central to the worship of God and Jesus in heaven (Rev. 5:8-14; 14:2-3; 15:2-4) so, yes, Jesus has taught us that God the Father must be worshiped with harp music.

Of course, you have ways of explaining those passages such that they supposedly do not reveal anything about the use of musical instruments in heaven so there really is very little common ground that we are going to have on this and many other issues.

 

[AustinC]

I'm gonna tune up my harp and begin to play. I'm gonna get there.

 

[Aaron]

God gave Jesus the book of Revelation to give it to John to reveal to believers what God wants us to know (Rev. 1:1). Revelation shows that harps are central to the worship of God and Jesus in heaven (Rev. 5:8-14; 14:2-3; 15:2-4) so, yes, Jesus has taught us that God the Father must be worshiped with harp music.

Of course, you have ways of explaining those passages such that they supposedly do not reveal anything about the use of musical instruments in heaven so there really is very little common ground that we are going to have on this and many other issues.

And this is why the debate is lost, an infantile, very first-world understanding of the issues due to poor exegesis and superstition.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

And this is why the debate is lost, an infantile, very first-world understanding of the issues due to poor exegesis and superstition.

This is solely your opinion and nothing more. Using insulting language does not bolster your position; it only shows that you lack the good character needed to interact properly with people who disagree with you.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Is this done simply because no one sings spiritual songs in your church, or because there is a prideful disdain for anything new or different from the group comfort zone?

What makes you think we don't sing "spiritual" songs? And there is nothing prideful about it. Our basic philosophy on the matter is:

Worship is the entertainment of God.​

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Divine revelation teaches that God gives to every seed its own body as it has pleased Him. He has made every seed that we sow in the ground exactly in the way that pleases Him.

Because He has made the bodies of even seeds to be pleasing to Him, we know that those seeds are not "neutral" seeds that neither please Him nor displease Him. He made them with bodies as it pleased Him, and even such things that are not used in worship please God because He made them exactly the way that pleased Him.

The belief that "No instrumental music pleases God. It's all neutral--it neither pleases Him nor displeases Him" is a faulty belief that the NT shows to be false. Any instrumental music that God Himself makes or has made is music that itself--regardless of context, setting, use, etc--pleases Him. It is not neutral in the sense that it neither pleases Him nor displeases Him.

Furthermore, the instrumental music itself that God has made pleases Him because He made it!

 

[robycop3]

The title "Rumble" makes one think about one gang marching off to fight another gang. If the song had been called "The March Of The Saints", it would be a different story.

And the blowing of the silver trumpets over the offerings, was to memorialize the OFFERINGS, not the music, which coulda been played at any time, including that one.

 

[robycop3]

Why would it displease God? Which of the notes would displease him?

By the mood it would produce. It would get the audiences' minds off worship & on secular dancing.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

And the blowing of the silver trumpets over the offerings, was to memorialize the OFFERINGS, not the music, which coulda been played at any time, including that one.

Yes, you are correct that those offerings served as a memorial before God, but those offerings could not have properly done so without the playing of the silver trumpets in obedience to God. The music was a necessary aspect of the memorializing that took place when those offerings were offered because God commanded that it be so.

 

[SGO]

The only instrumental music in the New Testament outside of heaven, that I know of, is mentioned in Luke 15:25:

Now the elder son was in the field:
and as he came and drew nigh to the house,
he heard musick and dancing.

not in worship, per se, but a celebration.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

There are at least three passages in the NT that are explicitly about instrumental music that was/is not music that was/is played in heaven:

1. Matthew 11:17
   And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
   
   
2. Luke 7:32
   They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
   
   
3. 1 Corinthians 14:7-8
   And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

 

[SGO]

Great.
How about godly singing without music in the New Testament?
Then we can know they are mutually exclusive.

Jesus sang hymns.

And when they had sung an hymn,
they went out into the mount of Olives.
Matthew 26:30, Mark 14:26

And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed,
and sang praises unto God:
and the prisoners heard them.
Acts 16:25

And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy;
as it is written,
For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles,
and sing unto thy name.
Romans 15:9

What is it then?
I will pray with the spirit,
and I will pray with the understanding also:
I will sing with the spirit,
and I will sing with the understanding also.
1 Corinthians 14:15

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Ephesians 5:19
(singing with music in the heart?)

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
teaching and admonishing one another
in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Colossians 3:16

Saying, I will declare thy name unto the brethren,
in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Hebrews 2:12

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Hebrews 13:15

Is any among you afflicted?
let him pray.
Is any merry?
Let him sing psalms.
James 5:13

 

[SGO]

Look at this from Aaron:

Music of the Bible

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Great.
How about godly singing without music in the New Testament?
Then we can know they are mutually exclusive.

Jesus sang hymns.

And when they had sung an hymn,
they went out into the mount of Olives.
Matthew 26:30, Mark 14:26

And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed,
and sang praises unto God:
and the prisoners heard them.
Acts 16:25

And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy;
as it is written,
For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles,
and sing unto thy name.
Romans 15:9

What is it then?
I will pray with the spirit,
and I will pray with the understanding also:
I will sing with the spirit,
and I will sing with the understanding also.
1 Corinthians 14:15

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Ephesians 5:19
(singing with music in the heart?)

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
teaching and admonishing one another
in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Colossians 3:16

Saying, I will declare thy name unto the brethren,
in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Hebrews 2:12

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Hebrews 13:15

Is any among you afflicted?
let him pray.
Is any merry?
Let him sing psalms.
James 5:13

It is best not to take lack of mention of something in a narrative account as proof of absence. Just because the passage does not say anything about musical instruments being played does not prove that there were no instruments used.

Especially for the singing recorded in Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26, it is entirely possible and I think even arguably likely that they sang the hymn to the accompaniment of a stringed instrument.