What Do You Believe about the Millennium?

[37818]

...pan-millennialist!...

There are pan-rapturists too. Personally post-trib pre-mill. Since about 1967.

 

[xlsdraw]

Ezekiel's chapters 35-48 will come to pass. The stage is perfectly set for it to begin and proceed rapidly.

It is sad, that Ezekiel chapter 36, sticks in the craw of so many here at the Baptist Board.

But nonetheless, God will remove the heart of stone from His People Israel.

He will give them a heart of flesh.

They will be His People.

He will be their God.

He will make a new covenant with Israel.

They will serve Him and Keep His commandments.

Jesus will reign from Jerusalem for a Thousand Years.

The Dead Sea will become an exceedingly fruitful body of water.

The Heathens will be put to shame.

I've never understood the cold-heartedness of professing Christians towards Israel when the scriptures clearly say that they are blinded in part and have a heart of stone. God allowed that for a season, called the Age of Grace, wherewith we sinners called Gentiles have benefitted.

Thank God that He is faithful to all the promises of the scriptures. His Word.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Yes, Jesus Christ arose in a physical body. It would be heretical to believe otherwise. And no preterist I know has ever taught that.

But then we get into your "textual gymnastics", Jeff. You act as if Paul never wrote I Corinthians 15:50:

"I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

Our bodies will indeed be spiritual. They will be isaggeloi - "like the angels", as Jesus told the Sadducees in Luke 20.

Do angels have flesh and bones?
Or flesh and blood?

That passage in Luke (and the Synoptic cross-references) along with 1 Cor. 15:44, 49-50 and other verses give ample proof that we will have spiritual, non-physical bodies.

Just like Christ has now.,

This is wrong. After the Resurrection, Jesus had flesh and bones, as they saw Him to have (Luke 24:39). He ate before people. They touched Him. He had a glorified physical body.

Angels told the disciples that the same Jesus that was taken up from them into heaven would so come in the like manner as they had seen Him go into heaven (Acts 1:11). They saw Him ascend into heaven with a glorified physical body, and He will return in that very same glorified physical body.

What you are teaching is very wrong. To say that Jesus now has a "spiritual, non-physical" body is a very serious denial of what Scripture teaches about the glorified Jesus.

 

[percho]

I agree if the "has" is changed to "had".

Explain the difference.

The one exception of course is Christ who when he said, "Father into your hands, I commend the spirit of me," and so saying he expired, descended to Hades and three days later was resurrected from Hades

 

[Yeshua1]

This is wrong. After the Resurrection, Jesus had flesh and bones, as they saw Him to have (Luke 24:39). He ate before people. They touched Him. He had a glorified physical body.

Angels told the disciples that the same Jesus that was taken up from them into heaven would so come in the like manner as they had seen Him go into heaven (Acts 1:11). They saw Him ascend into heaven with a glorified physical body, and He will return in that very same glorified physical body.

What you are teaching is very wrong. To say that Jesus now has a "spiritual, non-physical" body is a very serious denial of what Scripture teaches about the glorified Jesus.

It would be going in the heresy camp of the JW, as they hold Jesus as being raised in just a "spiritual sense" Paul point is that those born as sinners must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Jesus, and he will ten raise them up in immortal and imperishable bodily form when he comes!

 

[asterisktom]

This is wrong. After the Resurrection, Jesus had flesh and bones, as they saw Him to have (Luke 24:39). He ate before people. They touched Him. He had a glorified physical body.

I am not arguing anything different.

Angels told the disciples that the same Jesus that was taken up from them into heaven would so come in the like manner as they had seen Him go into heaven (Acts 1:11). They saw Him ascend into heaven with a glorified physical body, and He will return in that very same glorified physical body.

"Like manner" does not mean "like form". It is an adverbial phrase, not an adjective. It is a description of how he left and how we was to come back. And how did He leave? In a cloud that took Him out of their sight. That is how He came back.

What you are teaching is very wrong. To say that Jesus now has a "spiritual, non-physical" body is a very serious denial of what Scripture teaches about the glorified Jesus.

You cannot prove that Jesus has a physical body now. It was required of Him, when He was on His Messianic mission to be in a physical form, but it is not required now. He is no longer in the "days of His flesh", Heb. 5:7.

 

[asterisktom]

Explain the difference.

The one exception of course is Christ who when he said, "Father into your hands, I commend the spirit of me," and so saying he expired, descended to Hades and three days later was resurrected from Hades

I just mean to say that no one is in Hades now. I believe Hades was emptied at the coming of Christ c. AD 70.

 

[percho]

The point is that Satan has been bound in that he can no longer deceive the nations. This is shown by Matthew 12:24-30; Mark 4:22-27; Luke 11:14-23. Satan is the 'strong man' and before the coming of Christ, he had the Gentile nations securely in his power. But now a stronger than he has come, and he cannot prevent the nations from coming to Christ as they have been doing since Pentecost and are doing to this very day. Christ is the Rider on the white horse of Revelation 6:2 and He is, as it were, sacking the borders of hell and releasing its prisoners. Note that He is given a crown which is a Stephanos, a crown of victory, rather than a diademos, a crown of power, which is what the devil and the first beast have in Revelation 12 & 13.

It has been rightly said that the position of Satan is like that of Hitler after D Day. He cannot win; his territory is being slowly but steadily taken away. Yet there are still great battles to be fought and setbacks to be overcome, just as there were for the allies in WW2 - Arnhem and the Battle of the Bulge.

Let me say that I am not Postmil but Amil. I do not believe that the world will be won for Christ before He returns. As the number of converts to Christ increases, so does the persecution. In Britain today, and maybe in the USA, it seems almost that Satan could be in semi-retirement, just stirring himself from time to time to whisper in some Pastor's ear, "Keep it up; you're doing a great job!" But in China, India, Iran and elsewhere, the kingdom of God is growing, even in the face of the most vicious persecution and the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail. I heard recently that in ten years the number of Christians in Algeria has risen from 1,000 to half a million and as a result, churches are being closed and Pastors imprisoned.

I would like to ask.

1 Cor 15:23 YLT and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

Has that, "afterwards, in his presence," taken place? That is speaking of the resurrection of those who are Christ's, is it not?

1 Cor 15:52 YLT in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed: --- Is that how those spoken of in V23 will be raised, incorruptible?

And if I understand correctly, that must take place before one can inherit (whatever that means) the (kingdom) reign of God?

We who are Christ's are presently flesh and blood, are we not?

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years; and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Do you think that of Rev 20:4,5 would require incorruptibility? Is that not exactly what is spoken of in 1 Cor 15? Which begins as his coming, in his presence, incorruptible?

Now consider the devil being chained in the first three verses.

 

[percho]

I just mean to say that no one is in Hades now. I believe Hades was emptied at the coming of Christ c. AD 70.

Sorry I forgot about you being the big P. I now understand.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not arguing anything different.


"Like manner" does not mean "like form". It is an adverbial phrase, not an adjective. It is a description of how he left and how we was to come back. And how did He leave? In a cloud that took Him out of their sight. That is how He came back.


You cannot prove that Jesus has a physical body now. It was required of Him, when He was on His Messianic mission to be in a physical form, but it is not required now. He is no longer in the "days of His flesh", Heb. 5:7.

Jesus is in that same body was raised up in, and who ate and spoke with the Apostles!

 

[Aaron]

Preterists are the poster children for Premillennialists.

 

[Aaron]

"Like manner" does not mean "like form". It is an adverbial phrase, not an adjective. It is a description of how he left...

Visibly.

...and how we was to come back.

Visibly.

And how did He leave?

Visibly.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I am not arguing anything different.


"Like manner" does not mean "like form". It is an adverbial phrase, not an adjective. It is a description of how he left and how we was to come back. And how did He leave? In a cloud that took Him out of their sight. That is how He came back.


You cannot prove that Jesus has a physical body now. It was required of Him, when He was on His Messianic mission to be in a physical form, but it is not required now. He is no longer in the "days of His flesh", Heb. 5:7.

Do you also believe that Jesus is now no longer the God-Man so that He is no longer human at all? If not, in what ways is He still human?

 

[John of Japan]

John of Japan,

Hello JOJ, although I am in Wisconsin, I am wandering around the bottom parts until Thursday....racine today, madison and Janesville tomorrow and Thursday, so the Cinnabons are still on hold

Say hi to Racine for me. I went to HS there; Dad pastored Faith Baptist Church there for 5 years (no longer a church there).

Thankfully theologians after world war two do not have the final say of the reign of Jesus. The stock answer from post-mill types these days is we do not get our teaching from the newspapers but rather the scriptures.
There is no misconception on how evil and depraved mankind is since the fall. Gen.6
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

What you say is accurate in that many departed from considering the view as it looked as if the world was getting worse and worse.
Those who are critical of the view expect a steady upward growth,sort of like a rocket take-off from Cape Canaveral.
The reality is it is more like going over a mountain range.you go up, then down, then sideways, but overall progress is steady.
The gospel was first welcomed only in Israel, but now it has even gone into Japan
Reformed people gravitate to the puritans in their reading on all manner of studying. The look at what was the Puritan view of Mt. 28:18-20.

My point was that the "progress" of Mankind is not upward, not even sidewise. It is steadily down, down, down. The 21st century is the most wicked and immoral since Noah's Flood. Communism still destroys lives all over the world. The worst wars ever were in modern times. 70 million babies have been murdered through abortion in the US alone, and maybe even a billion killed in China that way. Japan has twice the abortion per capita as the wicked US, and in the meantime parents in India abort girl babies by the millions because they want boy babies.

Can you honestly claim that things are not more wicked than ever in this world?

What I can't figure out is why Calvinists and others who believe in the depravity of man (as I do) can possibly think the world is getting better. Calvinism and postmil are logically and theologically incompatible.

 

[asterisktom]

Visibly.



Visibly.



Visibly.

I have no problem with that.

 

[asterisktom]

Do you also believe that Jesus is now no longer the God-Man so that He is no longer human at all? If not, in what ways is He still human?

He most certainly is still and always will be the God-man. But humanity does not hinge on physicality.

 

[John of Japan]

He most certainly is still and always will be the God-man. But humanity does not hinge on physicality.

That's just inhuman.

If you are saying that Jesus now has no physical body, you are absolutely and completely wrong. John 20 is very clear that Thomas touched the physical body of Jesus.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I am not arguing anything different.


"Like manner" does not mean "like form". It is an adverbial phrase, not an adjective. It is a description of how he left and how we was to come back. And how did He leave? In a cloud that took Him out of their sight. That is how He came back.


You cannot prove that Jesus has a physical body now. It was required of Him, when He was on His Messianic mission to be in a physical form, but it is not required now. He is no longer in the "days of His flesh", Heb. 5:7.

You have zero proof from Scripture that Jesus' body changed from the time that He ascended to when He was received in heaven.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

That's just inhuman.

If you are saying that Jesus now has no physical body, you are absolutely and completely wrong. John 20 is very clear that Thomas touched the physical body of Jesus.

Yes, please clearly answer the question.

 

[Aaron]

I have no problem with that.

I'm glad to hear that, because I'd hate for you to be taken by surprise.