What do you normally do when a Jehovah Witness knocks on your door?

[standingfirminChrist]

So...we are not to allow family members into our home if they are not believers either?

Yet Jesus had no problem going into THEIR homes

There is a difference in bringing the light to the gentiles and allowing their darkness in.

I would not allow one family member in my house if they came for the express reason of spreading false doctrine.

Isn't that what the JW's, Mormons, and other sects go door knocking for? To indoctrinate you with their teachings?

 

[DHK]

Anyone who uses the word 'clear' when applied to Scripture is either deluded or deluding, possibly both. When are you going to learn that the statement 'Scripture says...' is the start of a discussion to the end?

You are insulting Matt. Some (even most) passages of Scriptures have a clear teaching. Perhaps you haven't studied enough to find out what that clear teaching is. Don't blame the rest of us for your inadequacies. There is a clear teaching. You can find it out for yourself.

Just an example:
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Is there a clear teaching on this passage of God's Word, Matt?

 

[DHK]

I think the letter is written to a church and with it the application being that false teachers should not be given a place to teach. When I talk with JH's I am doing it with the intent to teach them and in no way give them God' blessing. You may disagree with that, but to accuse those that take that postion as not being obedient to God's word is unfounded.

Do some study on this particular epistle. Just as Paul's epistle to Philemon was not written to a church, neither is this epistle written to a church. Why assume an allegorical church. It is written to a lady that John knew. He writes giving a warning against anti-Christian teachers. Why should such a letter be written to a lady? Perhaps we have a clue that relates right back to Genesis. Women are easily deceived (1Tim.2:14). John states that he loves (has great concern) for this elect lady and her children. The letter seems to be intensely personal. We have no reason to believe otherwise. If he is writing to a letter at her home, then that is the context, not the church.

I am willing to stand before God regarding this issue and my practice of preaching the gospel to a person who is a deceived. I have found that most of the JH's that come to my door are not fully sold on their doctrine anyway.

It is not that they are "deceived," but rather that they are the deceivers out to deceive others. Women in particular are gullible to such. Thus John has set forth some commands about letting false teachers into one's home. It is that simple.

 

[sag38]

As a teenager I remember watching my dad talk to four JW's in our yard. The conversation went on and on. Finally I heard him say, "Well, when it's all over with four of us are going to hell and one of us isn't and I'm not the one going to hell." They got in thier car and drove off. Blunt, but trying to talk to a JW is often like trying to talk to a brick wall. They are so well indoctrinated. Only the work of the Holy Spirit breaking though the ten foot wall of lies will change a JW's mind. What I hate as a pastor is trying to help someone who has been throughly confused because he or she unwittingly let a JW in the door. I think it's the best policy to tell church members to send the JW's on thier way unless those church members are well versed in how to handle the way the JW's twist the scripture to fit their Watch Tower teachings. Baby Christians or marginal Christians have no business fooling with a JW. Almost every JW that I have dealt with told me that he or she used to be a Baptist, a Methodist, a Church of Christ, etc.

 

[gb93433]

Do some study on this particular epistle. Just as Paul's epistle to Philemon was not written to a church, neither is this epistle written to a church.

What is the source of your information?

From the ISBE

PHILEMON
<fi-le’-mon>, <fi-le’-mun> ([Filh>mwn, Philemon]): Among the converts
of Paul, perhaps while at Ephesus, was one whom he calls a “fellowworker,”
Philemon (Philem 1:1). He was probably a man of some means,
was celebrated for his hospitality (Philem 1:5-7) and of considerable
importance in the ecclesia at Colosse. It was at his house (Philem 1:2) that
the Colossian Christians met as a center. It is more than probable that this
was a group of the Colossian church rather than the entire ecclesia.

Robertson's Word Pictures In The NT

To the church in thy house (têi kat' oikon sou ekklêsiâi). The church that met in the house of Philemon. In large cities there would be several meeting-places. Before the third century there is no certain evidence of special church buildings for worship (White, Exp. Grk. T.).

Louw & Nida

7.2: oikos" {a} , ou m : a building consisting of one or more rooms and normally serving as a dwelling place ( oikos{a} also includes
certain public buildings, for example, a temple) - `house, temple, sanctuary.' (The extension of oikos {a} to include temples may be the
result of speaking of a temple as the dwelling place of the deity.) hjkouvsqh o{ti ejn oi[kw'/ ejstivn `it was reported that he was at home'
#Mark 2:1 ; {Footnote 8073} tou' ajpolomevnou metaxuV tou' qusiasthrivou kaiV tou' oi[kou `who perished between the altar and the
Temple' #Luke 11:51 . For a discussion of certain translational problems related to oikos" {a} , see 7.3. 557


Clarke's Commentary

That Philemon was a person of some consideration in his own city, and in
the Church in that place, is very evident from this epistle. He had a
Church in his house, Philemon 1:2, and was so opulent as to be
extensive in works of charity, and in entertaining those Christians who
from different quarters had occasion to visit Colosse. See Philemon
1:5-7.


Matthew Henry

2. The persons written to are Philemon and Apphia, and with them
Archippus, and the church in Philemon's house. Philemon, the master of
Onesimus, was the principal, to whom the letter is inscribed, the head of
the family, in whom were the authority and power of taking in or shutting
out, and whose property Onesimus was: with him therefore chiefly lay the
business.


JFB

church in thy house — In the absence of a regular church building, the
houses of particular saints were used for that purpose. Observe Paul’s tact
in associating with Philemon those associated by kindred or Christian
brotherhood with his house, and not going beyond it.

Philemon 1:1-3

NASU

"Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, to Philemon our beloved [brother] and fellow worker, and to Apphia our sister, and to Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in your house: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Darby's Translation

Paul, prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timotheus the brother, to Philemon the beloved and our fellow-workman, and to the sister Apphia and to Archippus our fellow-soldier, and to the assembly which is in thine house. Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."

KJV

Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer, 2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house: 3 Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

NIV

Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker, to Apphia our sister, to Archippus our fellow soldier and to the church that meets in your home: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

RSV

Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, To Phile'mon our beloved fellow worker and Ap'phia our sister and Archip'pus our fellow soldier, and the church in your house: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Young's

Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timotheus the brother, to Philemon our beloved and fellow-worker, and Apphia the beloved, and Archippus our fellow-soldier, and the assembly in thy house: Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[gb93433]

Can anyone imagine when Walter Martin was living that he would have not engaged them?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Word of God says do not invite them in your house, neither bid them God speed.

Tell you what, gb... If you want to disobey the Word of God, send me your address and I will give it to the JW's, Mormon's and any other false religion that has a desire to teach false doctrine.

I will not invite them in, nor will I wish them well on their journey.

 

[DHK]

What is the source of your information?

What Philemon did in his house, or used his house for, was his business. That is not the point I was making. Paul wrote a very personal letter to Philemon. Philemon was not an allegory of a church Philemon was a person with a problem. He had a runaway slave that had stolen something of value. That crime was worthy of death. But the slave found Paul. Finding Paul, he also found salvation, and became a brother in Christ. Paul's plea to Philemon was to forgive Onesimus on Paul's behalf and to accept him as a brother in Christ.

The fact of whether or not he had a church in his house is totally irrelevant to the letter. It was a plea for forgiveness on the behalf of a runaway slave. It was a personal letter, as was the letter "to the elect lady."

 

[trustitl]

Every letter that is written to an individual is addressed to them by name. I understand your taking it to be a literal "lady". I think it is an acceptable interpretation to think that it was to a church. The church is the bride of Christ after all.

For a personal letter it wasn't very personal. John doesn't give his own name, no other names are given, and no blessings or personal greeting in any way.
Don't you think John would have use the "elect sisters" name or her childrens?

I think all of these issues raise enough questions to make the idea that the letter is written to a group feasible.

Where did Philemon come into play anyway?

 

[TaliOrlando]

As a teenager I remember watching my dad talk to four JW's in our yard. The conversation went on and on. Finally I heard him say, "Well, when it's all over with four of us are going to hell and one of us isn't and I'm not the one going to hell." They got in thier car and drove off. Blunt, but trying to talk to a JW is often like trying to talk to a brick wall. They are so well indoctrinated. Only the work of the Holy Spirit breaking though the ten foot wall of lies will change a JW's mind. What I hate as a pastor is trying to help someone who has been throughly confused because he or she unwittingly let a JW in the door. I think it's the best policy to tell church members to send the JW's on thier way unless those church members are well versed in how to handle the way the JW's twist the scripture to fit their Watch Tower teachings. Baby Christians or marginal Christians have no business fooling with a JW. Almost every JW that I have dealt with told me that he or she used to be a Baptist, a Methodist, a Church of Christ, etc.

I am going to be honest!! I dont think sending the away is the answer. When I used to be selling drugs and with friends who heavily associated with gangs, what if the person who talked to me about Christ thought the same way you are saying and just brushed me off. Sure it would be very easy to just send someone on their way but we have to take time to make sure we express who lives in us and that is Jesus.

Now, see the problem with Addressing Jehova Witnesses is that they know alot fo the word already. Many Christians think its a brick wall but its not.. many times when I was heavily involved in horrible things many would talk to me about God. I would honestly act like it didnt fade me or bother me but it left me thinking.. little by little that seed that someone planted in me grew and look at me now.

We are to do the possible and God the impossible. Salvation is a miracle from God and not from us. All we can do is plant that seed and if we do it in faith God will honor it and that person eventually will come to Christ. We have to remember most of them have been thought this their whole lives since infants so its difficult but all we have to do is reach out in faith, tell them how much Jesus loves them and God will do the rest.

We are his Body, we are the body of Christ.

 

[webdog]

Every letter that is written to an individual is addressed to them by name. I understand your taking it to be a literal "lady". I think it is an acceptable interpretation to think that it was to a church. The church is the bride of Christ after all.

For a personal letter it wasn't very personal. John doesn't give his own name, no other names are given, and no blessings or personal greeting in any way.
Don't you think John would have use the "elect sisters" name or her childrens?

I think all of these issues raise enough questions to make the idea that the letter is written to a group feasible.

Where did Philemon come into play anyway?

I agree about the writing style. It doesn't lend itself to being personal.

 

[BobRyan]

from post 24 --

Quote:
Originally Posted by standingfirminChrist
Scripture is clear we are not to welcome them in our homes if they do not bring the same doctrine that we adhere to.

Those who invite them in, those who encourage others to invite them in, they are disobeying God's Word.

If you really believed that - then technically speaking - you would confine yourself to some area of the BB where no one differs with you on any doctrine "that you value".

Or did I miss something in what you meant?

I on the other hand will gladly discuss doctrine with Catholics, Lutherans, JW's, Mormons etc.

in Christ,

Bob

Still waiting for the answer to that from those here who say they are not to engage in these discussions with those who differ with them on some doctrine that they consider to be of value.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

As a teenager I remember watching my dad talk to four JW's in our yard. The conversation went on and on. Finally I heard him say, "Well, when it's all over with four of us are going to hell and one of us isn't and I'm not the one going to hell." They got in thier car and drove off. Blunt, .

gotta wonder how many souls that approach wins.



On the other hand - how many of the unchurched - come into the Gospel through the work of the JWs door to door weekend work?

 

[DHK]

from post 24 --



Still waiting for the answer to that from those here who say they are not to engage in these discussions with those who differ with them on some doctrine that they consider to be of value.

in Christ,

Bob

It is not a difficult verse Bob. Just take it literally.
Think of the persistent habit of the J.W.'s and of what the Bible says about their practice.
If there come any to your door and bring not this doctrine do not let them in or even bid them God speed. If you do, you are partaker of their evil deeds.

The teaching is very clear without any ambiguity. It is speaking to a lady in her house. Don't let a false teacher, one that does not bring the doctrine of Christ, into your house. You are faceless Bob. You are on a computer. You are not in my house. The internet obviously doesn't count as a book doesn't count, and didn't in that day. John never mentioned books. He was speaking of false teachers. If I don't want you in my house via internet I can turn you off at any time by shutting off my computer. A J.W., once inside the house, is much more difficult to "turn off." There is nothing difficult about this command. It is clear-cut, simply put, and one doesn't need to add "what ifs," and other speculative ideas. Just follow the Word.

 

[DHK]

Every letter that is written to an individual is addressed to them by name. I understand your taking it to be a literal "lady". I think it is an acceptable interpretation to think that it was to a church. The church is the bride of Christ after all.

You are incorrect here.
John doesn't make any indication of who he is writing to in his first epistle. His audience is unnamed.
In his second epistle he is writing to a lady of the elect, one who is of the family of God, elected before the foundations of the world.
In his third epistle, he names himself as "the elder" but not specifically by name, and names the person he is writing to--Gaius. All three epistles are different. Yet they have the same author.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Also, in his third epistle, he mentions the church while in this one, he does not.

In second John, he speaks of the house but not the church

In third John, he speaks of the church, but not the house.

It is clear he makes a distinction between the church and the house.

 

[gb93433]

The Word of God says do not invite them in your house, neither bid them God speed.

Tell you what, gb... If you want to disobey the Word of God, send me your address and I will give it to the JW's, Mormon's and any other false religion that has a desire to teach false doctrine.

I will not invite them in, nor will I wish them well on their journey.

Go ahead and waste your time.
They don't knock on my door anymore because they have me in their database.

Try www.hismin.com

You might like it.

I am still waiting for an answer to the questioin I asked. Are you unable to? If not then just be honest and tell us that you would rather ignore scripture.

Again the question was, "Do you know what "do not give him a greeting" means?

 

[gb93433]

SFIC;

Must we ask you the same question numerous times to get an answer?

 

[DHK]

Must we ask you the same question numerous times to get an answer?

Does it mean "Salaam Alaikum"?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SFIC;

Must we ask you the same question numerous times to get an answer?

You must have selected reading skills, gb. I said more than once I will not invite them in my house, nor will I bid them God speed. That is what the Word of God says.