What do you think of this way of summing up the message of Romans?

[Mark Corbett]

When I was studying Romans I noticed that in chapters 1-11 whenever the word "love" is used it is referring to God's love for us (with one exception). In chapters 12-16, "love" is always used to refer to the love we have or should have for other people. So, I thought that one way to sum up the message of Romans is:

1 John 4:11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

I wrote more about this in a blog post here.

Let me know what you think.

Grace and Peace, Mark (with Hope and Joy!)
p.s. This is my first time starting a thread, so I'm open for input and advice.

 

[Iconoclast]

When I was studying Romans I noticed that in chapters 1-11 whenever the word "love" is used it is referring to God's love for us (with one exception). In chapters 12-16, "love" is always used to refer to the love we have or should have for other people. So, I thought that one way to sum up the message of Romans is:

1 John 4:11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

I wrote more about this in a blog post here.

Let me know what you think.

Grace and Peace, Mark (with Hope and Joy!)
p.s. This is my first time starting a thread, so I'm open for input and advice.

Welcome to Baptistboard....

Where do you think the theme of righteousness fits in there?
It seems to be the main theme of the book.
The love of God is said to be....In Christ....not outside....
Once In Christ....we can demonstrate this love as we are made law keepers....rom13:8-10

 

[Mark Corbett]

Welcome to Baptistboard....

Where do you think the theme of righteousness fits in there?
It seems to be the main theme of the book.
The love of God is said to be....In Christ....not outside....
Once In Christ....we can demonstrate this love as we are made law keepers....rom13:8-10

I agree that righteousness is a huge and central theme in Romans, although I'm not sure I would call it the main theme of the whole book. Certainly it is a main theme in chapters 1-10, where some form of the word appears 44 times (in the NIV).

The main way that God manifests His love for us after creating us is by saving us. That includes making us righteous through a faith relationship with Jesus Christ. So I think see making us righteous in Christ as a very key and central part of the way God loves us.

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree that righteousness is a huge and central theme in Romans, although I'm not sure I would call it the main theme of the whole book. Certainly it is a main theme in chapters 1-10, where some form of the word appears 44 times (in the NIV).

The main way that God manifests His love for us after creating us is by saving us. That includes making us righteous through a faith relationship with Jesus Christ. So I think see making us righteous in Christ as a very key and central part of the way God loves us.

Yes exactly....it is not an either or.....but a both and situation.

 

[Happy]

When I was studying Romans I noticed that in chapters 1-11 whenever the word "love" is used it is referring to God's love for us (with one exception). In chapters 12-16, "love" is always used to refer to the love we have or should have for other people. So, I thought that one way to sum up the message of Romans is:

1 John 4:11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

I wrote more about this in a blog post here.

Let me know what you think.

Grace and Peace, Mark (with Hope and Joy!)
p.s. This is my first time starting a thread, so I'm open for input and advice.

Agree with your assessment.

However I think people confuse the understanding.
God loves us "period".
But that does not mean he "forgives" all.
Nor does it mean there are no "negative consequences".

I think some are confuse in their thinking and rational, and put a CAVEAT, saying IF God loved me, he would forgive me (period)....saying IF God loved me, he would not perpetuate negative consequences for me (period) .... Such a "CAVEAT" is not Gods Way.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Agree with your assessment.

However I think people confuse the understanding.
God loves us "period".
But that does not mean he "forgives" all.
Nor does it mean there are no "negative consequences".

I think some are confuse in their thinking and rational, and put a CAVEAT, saying IF God loved me, he would forgive me (period)....saying IF God loved me, he would not perpetuate negative consequences for me (period) .... Such a "CAVEAT" is not Gods Way.

Happy, I agree! So many people misinterpret what it means for God to love all people. Summaries can be helpful in some ways (I hope!), but it's important to read the whole book of Romans (and the rest of the Bible) and so prayerfully seek God's help to understand it.

 

[Happy]

Happy, I agree! So many people misinterpret what it means for God to love all people. Summaries can be helpful in some ways (I hope!), but it's important to read the whole book of Romans (and the rest of the Bible) and so prayerfully seek God's help to understand it.

Agree. The reading, hearing, is to gain knowledge. However precisely as you say, one needs to seek God for the understanding thereof "according to" Gods Spiritual understanding (not mans mindful understanding) <--- The same which is taught IN Scripture, that ONLY God gives His understanding.

Point -
Isa 40:
[28] Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

IOW A man can not find Gods understanding IN Scripture, IN Ink, IN other men....

Point -
Matt.16

1. [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

IOW Only God gives a man "His" understanding.

And FYI, that gift is reserved FOR the faithful believers.

Point -
1 Kings 3
[12] Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

IOW God gives "His" understanding to a man "heart", (notice, not a mans MIND) <--- that is the mans JOB, to listen to thoughts of his heart, to supersede the thoughts of his mind....which is revealed IN Romans.

Rom.12

1. [2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Van]

God at the same time demonstrates His attributes toward us, including hate toward those who sin. His wrath toward the lost is just, and His wrath cannot be turned aside except by Christ being the propitiation.

Another of God's attributes is righteousness. His wrath is righteous. His love is righteous. His mercy is righteous.

Does God's love for mankind indicate He will accommodate us, or should we confess our wretchedness and seek His mercy?

 

[rlvaughn]

Welcome to Baptist Board, Mark.

On your blog you write, "There is only one exception (in some English translations there are 2 exceptions)." Which verse and English translations have this where love (from people) is used an extra time in chapters 1-11?

Thanks.

 

[Van]

I noticed a very consistent pattern. In the first eleven chapters of Romans, when the word the word love is used it is always talking about God loving people. There is only one exception (in some English translations there are 2 exceptions). With no exceptions, in the last five chapters the word love always refers to people loving other people.

The phrase, "the love of God" can be understood to a subjective genitive (God's love) or an objective genitive (our love for God).
If Romans 15:30 is taken as a subjective genitive (then this refers to the Holy Spirit's love) rather than our love for others. How do you understand it?

And Romans 8:28 appears to refer to our love for God. Is this the exception?

 

[Yeshua1]

God at the same time demonstrates His attributes toward us, including hate toward those who sin. His wrath toward the lost is just, and His wrath cannot be turned aside except by Christ being the propitiation.

Another of God's attributes is righteousness. His wrath is righteous. His love is righteous. His mercy is righteous.

Does God's love for mankind indicate He will accommodate us, or should we confess our wretchedness and seek His mercy?

Only those whom God intends to save will be able to do that though!

 

[Van]

Y1 loves to add to scripture the man-made inventions of fake theology. OTOH, God desires all people to be saved, He sets before us the choice of life and death, and begs through His witnesses for the lost to choose life. Be reconciled to God. Nothing in Romans supports the fake theology of Y1. Scripture tells us we need more labors because the fields are white for harvest.

 

[Rippon]

Scripture tells us we need more labors because the fields are white for harvest.

No,not labors, but laborers, or simply workers. The fields are ripe for harvesting.

 

[Van]

Thanks for helping me present the truth. See Luke 10:2 and John 4:35

 

[Rippon]

Thanks for helping me present the truth. See Luke 10:2 and John 4:35

You know better. I entirely disagree with your theology. I was just correcting your spelling and grammar.

 

[Van]

Ah, I had forgotten you practice mind reading. And I know you advocate fake theology, not actually found in scripture. Thanks for helping me present the truth. See Luke 10:2 and John 4:35

 

[Rippon]

Ah, I had forgotten you practice mind reading.

No need for mind reading. You used the word "labors" but meant laborers. And instead of saying "the fields are white for harvest" it makes more sense to say something along the lines of "ripe for harvesting." Just trying to help you Van.

 

[Van]

There is never a need to post as if you can read minds. And I thanked you for the unintended consequence of helping me present the truth.

And He was saying to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.

"Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest '? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.

God desires all people to be saved, He sets before us the choice of life and death, and begs through His witnesses for the lost to choose life. Be reconciled to God. Nothing in Romans supports the fake theology of Y1. Scripture tells us we need more laborers because the fields are white for harvest.

 

[Van]

Romans 5:5 (NASB):and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Here I think the idea is that we reflect the sacrificial love that God has for others. For example, one of the fruits of the Spirit is love.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Here I think God's love for fallen mankind is in view.

Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Here I think our love from God is in view.

Romans 8:35
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Here I think God's sacrificial love for His chosen ones is in view.

Romans 8:37
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

Again, God's sacrificial love for His chosen ones is in view.

Romans 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Again God's sacrificial love for His chosen ones is in view. Here also we see that God's love emanates from or through Jesus.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Clearly God's love is in view.

Romans 12:9
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.

Per Mark's astute observation, the focus has shifted in general to how our love for God and others should reflect the attributes of God's love for mankind.

Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;

Here even the word translated as "love" is not agapeo, but Philadelphia (sibling affection).

Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Again, our love for others (saved or unsaved) is in view.

Romans 13:9
For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Our love should be focused outwardly, toward others, just as God's love was toward us.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Our compassionate love for others again is in view.

Romans 14:15
For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

Here we see that our love for others includes restricting our own liberty of behavior for the sake of others.

Romans 15:30
Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me,

Here, while the idea could be God's love, I think upon reflection, Mark is correct, our love toward others (including Paul) which is a fruit of the Spirit, is in view.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 5:5 (NASB):and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Here I think the idea is that we reflect the sacrificial love that God has for others. For example, one of the fruits of the Spirit is love.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Here I think God's love for fallen mankind is in view.

Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Here I think our love from God is in view.

Romans 8:35
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Here I think God's sacrificial love for His chosen ones is in view.

Romans 8:37
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

Again, God's sacrificial love for His chosen ones is in view.

Romans 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Again God's sacrificial love for His chosen ones is in view. Here also we see that God's love emanates from or through Jesus.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Clearly God's love is in view.

Romans 12:9
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.

Per Mark's astute observation, the focus has shifted in general to how our love for God and others should reflect the attributes of God's love for mankind.

Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;

Here even the word translated as "love" is not agapeo, but Philadelphia (sibling affection).

Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Again, our love for others (saved or unsaved) is in view.

Romans 13:9
For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Our love should be focused outwardly, toward others, just as God's love was toward us.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Our compassionate love for others again is in view.

Romans 14:15
For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

Here we see that our love for others includes restricting our own liberty of behavior for the sake of others.

Romans 15:30
Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me,

Here, while the idea could be God's love, I think upon reflection, Mark is correct, our love toward others (including Paul) which is a fruit of the Spirit, is in view.

The US in Romans 5.....are those justified from verse 1......the elect.