What does 1 Corinthians 12:3 mean?

[Van]

1 Corinthians 12:3 NASB
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except in the Holy Spirit.

Some mistakenly argue an ordinary human being cannot say "Jesus is Lord" except after they have been born anew and indwelt. This view is hogwash.

The idea or intended meaning of the phrase "in the Spirit " or "in the Holy Spirit," is to speak consistent with the truth held by God. God's truth is Jesus is NOT accursed, and God's truth is Jesus is Lord.

 

[canadyjd]

1 Corinthians 12:3 NASB
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except in the Holy Spirit.

Some mistakenly argue an ordinary human being cannot say "Jesus is Lord" except after they have been born anew and indwelt. This view is hogwash.

The idea or intended meaning of the phrase "in the Spirit " or "in the Holy Spirit," is to speak consistent with the truth held by God. God's truth is Jesus is NOT accursed, and God's truth is Jesus is Lord.

It cannot mean people are unable to utter the words “Jesus is Lord”.

Jesus stated that “many” in the day of judgement will say “Lord, Lord” and Jesus will say depart from Me, i never knew you.

So your mistaken “idea” or “intention” is not remedied by your interpretation. The lost can say the words Jesus is Lord, and still be lost.

The only reasonable explanation is that those that are saved (in the Spirit) cannot say Jesus is accursed, and only those in the Spirit can say Jesus is Lord)

Peace to you

 

[th1bill]

It cannot mean people are unable to utter the words “Jesus is Lord”.

Jesus stated that “many” in the day of judgement will say “Lord, Lord” and Jesus will say depart from Me, i never knew you.

So your mistaken “idea” or “intention” is not remedied by your interpretation. The lost can say the words Jesus is Lord, and still be lost.

The only reasonable explanation is that those that are saved (in the Spirit) cannot say Jesus is accursed, and only those in the Spirit can say Jesus is Lord)

Peace to you

Amen!

 

[Van]

It cannot mean people are unable to utter the words “Jesus is Lord”.

Jesus stated that “many” in the day of judgement will say “Lord, Lord” and Jesus will say depart from Me, i never knew you.

So your mistaken “idea” or “intention” is not remedied by your interpretation. The lost can say the words Jesus is Lord, and still be lost.

The only reasonable explanation is that those that are saved (in the Spirit) cannot say Jesus is accursed, and only those in the Spirit can say Jesus is Lord)

Peace to you

I am sorry you thought I was supporting the inability to say Jesus is Lord. I said the exact opposite.

 

[canadyjd]

I am sorry you thought I was supporting the inability to say Jesus is Lord. I said the exact opposite.

Paul states in Romans that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart He was raised from the dead, you will be saved. He qualifies saying the words with belief in your heart.

Paul states in the passage you quoted that no one can say “Jesus is Lord” but by the Spirit. He qualifies saying “Jesus is Lord” by saying the person must be under the influence of God Holy Spirit. He must be referring to a genuine profession of faith (belief in your heart) not just mouthing the words.

What Paul is teaching in this passage is that saying “Jesus is Lord” (resulting in salvation) can only happen under the influence of God Holy Spirit.

Yes, it supports both the inability of man and the effectual calling of God.

I suspect we will disagree

Peace to you

 

[Van]

Paul states in Romans that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart He was raised from the dead, you will be saved. He qualifies saying the words with belief in your heart.

Paul states in the passage you quoted that no one can say “Jesus is Lord” but by the Spirit. He qualifies saying “Jesus is Lord” by saying the person must be under the influence of God Holy Spirit. He must be referring to a genuine profession of faith (belief in your heart) not just mouthing the words.

What Paul is teaching in this passage is that saying “Jesus is Lord” (resulting in salvation) can only happen under the influence of God Holy Spirit.

Yes, it supports both the inability of man and the effectual calling of God.

I suspect we will disagree

Peace to you

Yes, I completely disagree with the view you expressed. The preposition "en" is used in the verse to indicate "in agreement with" and not indwelt.
See Romans 4 to enlarge the explanation of the importance of believing God raised Jesus from the dead.

When a person is "in the spirit" of Christmas, they are sharing the "Christmas spirit of joy to the world, the Lord has come."

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, I completely disagree with the view you expressed. The preposition "en" is used in the verse to indicate "in agreement with" and not indwelt.
See Romans 4 to enlarge the explanation of the importance of believing God raised Jesus from the dead.

When a person is "in the spirit" of Christmas, they are sharing the "Christmas spirit of joy to the world, the Lord has come."

You ate not addressing how Paul qualifies the saying “Jesus is Lord” with being under the influence of God Holy Spirit.

I do understand that is contrary to your beliefs, however, it is what Paul is teaching. That is undeniable.

I”ll believe what Paul says.

BTW, I ignore every biblical Greek explanation you give because you have acknowledge you are a notice biblical Greek student, at best, and dont understand stand it.

Peace to you

 

[Van]

You ate not addressing how Paul qualifies the saying “Jesus is Lord” with being under the influence of God Holy Spirit.

I do understand that is contrary to your beliefs, however, it is what Paul is teaching. That is undeniable.

I”ll believe what Paul says.

BTW, I ignore every biblical Greek explanation you give because you have acknowledge you are a notice biblical Greek student, at best, and dont understand stand it.

Peace to you

1) The poster denies "en" is used to indicate "in agreement with." But support for this claim was just an ad hominem.

2) You say Paul "qualifies" the saying with being "under the influence" of God. If a person agrees with God's point of view, he or she is under the influence, so the argument is a fallacy.

3) I believe what Paul is saying, too, but we part company on just what that is. To imply I am intentionally twisting Paul is just another ad hominem.

4) Being led by the spirit does not mean being led by the indwelt Spirit. People who are led to Christ by the inspired word were being led by the Spirit, but not indwelt.

 

[canadyjd]

1) The poster denies "en" is used to indicate "in agreement with." But support for this claim was just an ad hominem.

Yawn

2) You say Paul "qualifies" the saying with being "under the influence" of God. If a person agrees with God's point of view, he or she is under the influence, so the argument is a fallacy.

You have added to the text, as usual, to put the focus on what the man is doing instead of what God is doing, which is the context of the passage.

This is why you are in continuous error. You cannot help but to read your errant theology into every passage.

3) I believe what Paul is saying, too, but we part company on just what that is. To imply I am intentionally twisting Paul is just another ad hominem.

I don’t imply it. I state it plainly. You continuously force your errant theology into every passage you “interpret”.

4) Being led by the spirit does not mean being led by the indwelt Spirit. People who are led to Christ by the inspired word were being led by the Spirit, but not indwelt.

We agree. You may have stumbled upon truth here.

You acknowledge people must be led by the Spirit of God in order to understand the gospel of Christ.

That is effectual calling and proves inabilty to believe the gospel, coming to salvation, apart from God Holy Spirit.

Just acknowledge you have accepted effectual calling and inability.

Peace to you

 

[Van]

Yawn

You have added to the text, as usual, to put the focus on what the man is doing instead of what God is doing, which is the context of the passage.

This is why you are in continuous error. You cannot help but to read your errant theology into every passage.

I don’t imply it. I state it plainly. You continuously force your errant theology into every passage you “interpret”.

We agree. You may have stumbled upon truth here.

You acknowledge people must be led by the Spirit of God in order to understand the gospel of Christ.

That is effectual calling and proves inabilty to believe the gospel, coming to salvation, apart from God Holy Spirit.

Just acknowledge you have accepted effectual calling and inability.

Peace to you

Matthew 7:21 NASB
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Here we have Jesus saying people can say to Jesus "Lord, Lord" and not be indwelt.

 

[Van]

When the Greek preposition "en" (in) is used to show instrumentality, such as cause or influence, it is translated some of the time using "by."

But we also see "en" (translated as "in") used to indicate influence all the time, with phrases like, in love, in hate, in anger, in faith and so forth. Thus demonstrates something was influenced by something else using "en" frequently. This influence often occurs without being indwelt with the influencing agent. Thus to read "indwelling" into 1 Corinthians 12:3 is simply reading to the verse more than can be supported exegetically.

 

[percho]

You ate not addressing how Paul qualifies the saying “Jesus is Lord” with being under the influence of God Holy Spirit.

I do understand that is contrary to your beliefs, however, it is what Paul is teaching. That is undeniable.

I”ll believe what Paul says.

BTW, I ignore every biblical Greek explanation you give because you have acknowledge you are a notice biblical Greek student, at best, and dont understand stand it.

Peace to you

Does the dative of Spirit show a connection of the one speaking with the Spirit ? I know, no Greek.

 

[Kai]

I would agree that the verse shouldn't be taken to mean an unbeliever is physically incapable of uttering the words "Jesus is Lord." However, I think that this statement Paul made has an even greater spiritual significance.

He isn't discussing someone's ability to repeat a sequence of words. He's talking about a genuine confession of Christ's lordship through the work of the Holy Spirit. The context of 1 Corinthians 12 is spiritual gifts and the recognition of the Spirit's work.

In other words, there's a difference between merely saying the words "Jesus is Lord" and sincerely confessing Jesus as Lord. The latter is not simply an intellectual acknowledgment but a confession enabled by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Van]

I would agree that the verse shouldn't be taken to mean an unbeliever is physically incapable of uttering the words "Jesus is Lord." However, I think that this statement Paul made has an even greater spiritual significance.

He isn't discussing someone's ability to repeat a sequence of words. He's talking about a genuine confession of Christ's lordship through the work of the Holy Spirit. The context of 1 Corinthians 12 is spiritual gifts and the recognition of the Spirit's work.

In other words, there's a difference between merely saying the words "Jesus is Lord" and sincerely confessing Jesus as Lord. The latter is not simply an intellectual acknowledgment but a confession enabled by the Holy Spirit.

I disagree, but I would agree with "a confession influenced by the Holy Spirit."

 

[Van]

Does the dative of Spirit show a connection of the one speaking with the Spirit ? I know, no Greek.

"The Dative-Instrumental may be used to indicate the Means, Cause, Manner, or Agent by which an event occurs."

In 1 Corinthians 12:3 the agent providing the influence is the Holy Spirit when someone says Jesus is Lord.

 

[th1bill]

I disagree, but I would agree with "a confession influenced by the Holy Spirit."

But the truth still stands. Millions attend Sunday Services confessing Yashua as LORD and when at work or when the mate is working during the week, they see their lovers. And of course commit every other form of sin.

The saved do not plan to sin.

 

[Van]

You acknowledge people must be led by the Spirit of God in order to understand the gospel of Christ.

No, the above statement is a material false statement. This is why discussions seldom if ever reach consensus, opponents of truth address fabrications.

People who are led to Christ through scripture are being led by the Holy Spirit because He inspired scripture. If the gospel message was not provided to a lost person, then they "could not understand the gospel." To read the fictional "effectual call" into this basic truth is hogwash.

 

[Van]

Some of those professing to be born anew believers are saved. Others professing the same are unsaved, Wheat and Tares sit side by side in many pews. Thus the lost can say Jesus is Lord. But, as pointed out by others, the statement "Jesus is my Lord" will only be true of born anew believers.