Brother Bob said:
Question: Is doubting the opposite of faith or is doubting a part of faith?
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What does a Calvinist do with this verse?
- Thread starter Jarthur001
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Question: Is doubting the opposite of faith or is doubting a part of faith?
Salvation (the object of Eph. 2:8-9 "saved by grace through faith") is given to those who are in Christ. That verse is not a proof text that this nebulous gift of "saving faith" is only given to some, and not others. The converse and inverse of a statement cannot be assumed, as you would have to do with this text.FriendofSpurgeon said:
Brother Bob
New Member
Faith is believing in not doubting in! It is what you have when you can't see it to let you know you have it, not to doubt you have it. No, doubt is not a part of faith. It is by faith you overcome doubt.
FofS;
So, are you saying then that you do doubt from time to time?
FofS;
So, are you saying then that you do doubt from time to time?
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Sorry, I disagree. I think doubting is not so much the opposite of faith, but part of our faith. It's the "ants in the pants" so to speak, that keeps our faith alive. To question, to think creatively, and to search eagerly are some of the ways that we truly enjoy and grow in our faith.
OK, if you're asking if I doubt my salvation, the answer is of course not. As the Apostle John said, he wrote all those things so that we know that have eternal life, not that we hope we have.
God's best,
FoS
OK, if you're asking if I doubt my salvation, the answer is of course not. As the Apostle John said, he wrote all those things so that we know that have eternal life, not that we hope we have.
God's best,
FoS
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
FriendofSpurgeon said:
Romans 12 - to "EACH ONE is given a measure of faith".
John 1 Christ is the light that comes into the world and enlightens EVERYONE -
John 12:32 "I will DRAW ALL MANKIND unto Me".
John 16 The Spirit of Truth "Convicts the WORLD of sin AND righteousness AND judgment"
Rev 3 'Behold I STAND at the door and KNOCK if anyone hears AND OPENS THE DOOR -- I WILL come IN".
Seems pretty clear to me.
In Christ,
Bob
Yes, "through faith"; yet, faith is the "gift of God" - through Him, from Him - returning to Him, not with empty hands. "Through faith", with the emphasis on faith - not on "through". Faith never considers itself, but its Object its Giver. If one 'lives by faith' he lives by the mercies of God. Faith may be weak; God's mercy is always strong.
BobRyan said:
Grace applies to the elect only.
Sorry for the mix up, Bob; won't do it again,
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I have to admit - that was pretty confusing.
GE said
I agree that Christ standing at the door and knocking is what enables all to open the door while they are still in fact alone and on the inside without Christ.
For HE is the light that coming into the World enlightens EVERY MAN! "For the World was MADE through Him" John 1 - same world same chapter same global application.
In Christ,
Bob
GE said
I agree that Christ standing at the door and knocking is what enables all to open the door while they are still in fact alone and on the inside without Christ.
For HE is the light that coming into the World enlightens EVERY MAN! "For the World was MADE through Him" John 1 - same world same chapter same global application.
In Christ,
Bob
Brother Bob
New Member
FofS;
Never knew anyone who never had a doubt. The flesh is still waiting on its deliverance and how could it have complete knowledge. If you have complete knowledge it is inwardly (the soul) for that is what was delivered from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope in Christ and the flesh will receive its change in the resurrection when if the same Spirit be in you that raised Christ from the dead it shall also quicken your mortal body, and the creature itself shall also be delivered. So if the creature has not been delivered yet, and if it had we would not have to die, then how can it know something it just don't have yet. That is where the hope is.
I had a Wide World Church of God person came here and stayed until 4:00 in the morning saying he never doubted but before he left he had to agree that he had doubted and said he was going home to study some more.
I don't doubt the Lord but from time to time I do get down in the valley and have to be lifted up by my Lord. I think I have as much knowledge as anyone but it is the inward part that has it for that is what was "born again" and don't have to die anymore.
Never knew anyone who never had a doubt. The flesh is still waiting on its deliverance and how could it have complete knowledge. If you have complete knowledge it is inwardly (the soul) for that is what was delivered from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope in Christ and the flesh will receive its change in the resurrection when if the same Spirit be in you that raised Christ from the dead it shall also quicken your mortal body, and the creature itself shall also be delivered. So if the creature has not been delivered yet, and if it had we would not have to die, then how can it know something it just don't have yet. That is where the hope is.
I had a Wide World Church of God person came here and stayed until 4:00 in the morning saying he never doubted but before he left he had to agree that he had doubted and said he was going home to study some more.
I don't doubt the Lord but from time to time I do get down in the valley and have to be lifted up by my Lord. I think I have as much knowledge as anyone but it is the inward part that has it for that is what was "born again" and don't have to die anymore.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In Matt 7 we see a group claiming "They Never had a doubt" and yet are lost - utterly and totally lost at the end.
They appear to be members of the ONE True church - the right Bible, the right Lord, the right Gospel message but In THEIR LIVES we find a problem where they CLAIM salvation but do not have it. These are not philistines, pagans, Mormons etc that Christ argues to be "Doctrinally incorrect and so they are lost". He does not complain at all about their WORDS He points out that in their life the fruit is not there. That is the ONLY problem.
Many a so-called Christian may be found in EVERY denomination EVERY local congregation of ALL doctrinal Points of view - having that same problem.
They appear to be members of the ONE True church - the right Bible, the right Lord, the right Gospel message but In THEIR LIVES we find a problem where they CLAIM salvation but do not have it. These are not philistines, pagans, Mormons etc that Christ argues to be "Doctrinally incorrect and so they are lost". He does not complain at all about their WORDS He points out that in their life the fruit is not there. That is the ONLY problem.
Many a so-called Christian may be found in EVERY denomination EVERY local congregation of ALL doctrinal Points of view - having that same problem.
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Bro' Bob --
The point I was originally making is that we are saved by God's grace, not by our own faith. Sometimes faith is an up and down deal, wouldn't you agree? Sometimes you feel like you have it, other times you don’t. No matter. Jesus always has us, even though we don’t always feel like we have Him.
The second point is that doubting, questioning, thinking, etc. is an integral part of growing in our faith. In effect, doubting is an essential part of our faith. It causes us to search, to read, to study. Personally, I think the lack of "thinking" Christians today is startling.
God's best,
FOS
The point I was originally making is that we are saved by God's grace, not by our own faith. Sometimes faith is an up and down deal, wouldn't you agree? Sometimes you feel like you have it, other times you don’t. No matter. Jesus always has us, even though we don’t always feel like we have Him.
The second point is that doubting, questioning, thinking, etc. is an integral part of growing in our faith. In effect, doubting is an essential part of our faith. It causes us to search, to read, to study. Personally, I think the lack of "thinking" Christians today is startling.
God's best,
FOS
Brother Bob
New Member
The answer to that I think FOS; is that faith is inwardly and sometimes we get in the flesh and doubt but the faith is still there it is just inwardly and we have to remember who we are and get back in the Spirit. I think when we doubt it is when we get in the flesh for if the inward man has indeed been made alive in Christ Jesus I don't see where inwardly you could doubt for you are not dead anymore inwardly but when we get in the flesh where the thorn is then we do doubt from time to time. I guess we all wrestle with that one, what do you think? I mean if you have the "faith" that was once delivered unto the saints then you got it, it is just "oh the wretched man I am" part where we doubt. (flesh) I think when you say sometimes we feel we got it and sometimes we feel we don't it is the going back and forth from the inward man to the fleshly man. In other words I think it is us and not our "faith".
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