Alive in Christ
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The God of the universe, choosing to take our sin penalty..a horribly torturous death..upon Himself, so that we, who still sin against Him, can be saved.
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What does AGAPE love look like?
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The God of the universe, choosing to take our sin penalty..a horribly torturous death..upon Himself, so that we, who still sin against Him, can be saved.
The problem isn't defining agape it is finding it in the life of a believer.
It is never achieved outside the "ladder" that Peter shows.
2 Peter: 1: 5-9
It has always somewhat amazed me that some believers want to skip goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, Godliness, brotherly kindness and just attempt to dwell in the agape with no understanding of the true meaning nor the display is thwarted without the others being part of the character.
Also, how many of us have seen near sighted and blind believers stumbling about with every wind of doctrine and without emotional rudders eventually making shipwreck of their life.
Would that each believer would dwell on being built up to express appropriate and Godly love as a integral part of their character!
It is never achieved outside the "ladder" that Peter shows.
2 Peter: 1: 5-9
"For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins."
It has always somewhat amazed me that some believers want to skip goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, Godliness, brotherly kindness and just attempt to dwell in the agape with no understanding of the true meaning nor the display is thwarted without the others being part of the character.
Also, how many of us have seen near sighted and blind believers stumbling about with every wind of doctrine and without emotional rudders eventually making shipwreck of their life.
Would that each believer would dwell on being built up to express appropriate and Godly love as a integral part of their character!
2 words...the Cross!
We are commanded to Agape God with all our heart and to Agape our neighbor as ourselves.
So to reverse engineer the meaning, what are the common attributes we have for ourselves. Who is our first priority? Who do we think about all the time. When we make decisions, who is benefited.
They say love grows in the garden of commitment. How committed are we to our welfare. If we had agape love for our neighbor, we would consider him more important than ourselves.
In short it looks like putting God and others ahead of ourselves. Easy to preach, hard to do.
So to reverse engineer the meaning, what are the common attributes we have for ourselves. Who is our first priority? Who do we think about all the time. When we make decisions, who is benefited.
They say love grows in the garden of commitment. How committed are we to our welfare. If we had agape love for our neighbor, we would consider him more important than ourselves.
In short it looks like putting God and others ahead of ourselves. Easy to preach, hard to do.
The problem with someone self generating love (agape level) or attempting to display that love is that even Peter understood such love was not achieved but by the steps given in the previous post I wrote on this thread.
Christ, when confronting Peter, asked at one level of love and Peter would only acknowledge that he loved to a lesser level.
Christ knew that eventually Peter would put it together and would then be able to articulate the "ladder" of attainment that makes the believer abound in fruitfulness and knowledge of Christ.
If I have not mistakenly read (which is becoming more problematic for me) I sense that some respondents want to leap over aspects of character and learning that Peter specifies as necessary to attain love (agape level).
This time I will post the opening lines of 2nd Peter that all readers may view the attainment:
"...Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins..."
Christ, when confronting Peter, asked at one level of love and Peter would only acknowledge that he loved to a lesser level.
Christ knew that eventually Peter would put it together and would then be able to articulate the "ladder" of attainment that makes the believer abound in fruitfulness and knowledge of Christ.
If I have not mistakenly read (which is becoming more problematic for me) I sense that some respondents want to leap over aspects of character and learning that Peter specifies as necessary to attain love (agape level).
This time I will post the opening lines of 2nd Peter that all readers may view the attainment:
"...Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins..."
I say again, how much do you love yourself. Did to achieve that level of self love on your own, or did you need to be spiritually altered. I know you cannot accept what scripture says, since it conflicts with your man-made doctrine. Lots of men of flesh, unregenerates all, lay down their lives for their fellowmen.
This does not deny Peter was not yet able to love Jesus unconditionally, and he grew into that capacity through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
But Calvinism makes this all mush because they claim no one is able to love God or love others unless regenerated. Simply unbiblical. Peter loved Jesus like a brother before, repeat before, the Holy Spirit was poured out upon him at Pentecost. And this unregenerate love was sufficient for Christ to accept him and pour out his Spirit upon him.
The more you study scripture, the more Calvinism falls apart.
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Didn't take him long either! It was almost like he planned to be banned. He seems to have chosen the quickest route to get that done!
I haven't been following him. What did he do?
Used a curse word to DHK, called him various names, etc. :tonofbricks:
Yea, and if they give their bodies to be burned and have not love it is nothing.
So what? Giving your life is not necessarily proof of godly love.
Terrorists do that. Dying for what you believe in is not necessarily love. And it is absolutely NOT love if the person doing it is unregenerate.
I think Arminians, non-cals and Calvinists alike would join together and say that you don't know beans from apple butter about the Bible.
Love is OF GOD. There are those who do not truly love. John was very clear- these are the ones who "know not God."
Jesus said "loving" those who love you is not commendable. In other words, it is not necessarily real love.
You can give all your goods to the poor and burn alive at the stake for your fellow man and it not be real love.
You ought to know that.
"If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,b but have not love, I gain nothing."
I Corinthians 13:3
Madness. You and Winman are the worst exegetes I have ever seen in my life.
And I am not just saying that as a Calvinist. Skandelon is a full fledged Arminian and he is a solid exegete. Jacobus Arminius was a solid exegete. Even guys like Adrian Rogers, who have no real systematized theology, handle the scriptures responsibly.
But you and Winman are the absolute worst I have ever seen.
That is not only funny but note worthy!
Thank you for bringing a bit of humor into this old man's reading. :laugh:
:thumbs::thumbs:
I will say that Winman has constructed some good rational points (wrong though they may be) and shown that he does on some level seek the truth in some threads.
Fascinating that, with all the banter about in the Scriptures, it isn't much unlike what I have read about some of the early contentious writings even going back to Paul and Barnabas.
Believers have a great deal to sort out when we sit together in the heavenly. How wonderful that time will be!
He may have acted with an air of decency in these Baptist forums, but in the Other non-Baptist forums, he was pro-Catholic, anti-Baptist, and very arrogant to anyone who opposed his views on Catholicism. If he had wanted to espouse Catholicism and bash Baptists he could have joined a different board to do it.
I was truly shocked when I looked at his posts on the non-Baptist forums. His attitude was the antithesis of agape.
The question also remains, is he really a Baptist? He listed himself as a "Non-denominational Baptist" (never heard of it!) and his listed home church was not Baptist in name, nor did it claim to be Baptistic on its webpage.
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Because this is a publicly read forum, and moderators can "ban" a member, then it seems that there should be a separate forum posting announcements of the ban and the cause.
This would not be an "open" forum for members to post replies, but an information forum to declare the cause and encourage the members to be careful to post appropriately.
Please understand that a moderator cannot ban anyone.
Every situation is taken to the administration. It is the administration (those who collectively have the name administrator under their name) that have the power to ban people. A moderator has no such power.
Taking that into consideration there is no reason for the general membership to know the reason why. It is none of their business, and only gives an occasion for gossip. They have no recourse to change the adminstration's mind. If you all want to go on strike, well that is your choice.
It is a private board. As I told the said poster: "Posting here is a privilege and not a right," something he didn't respect.
I only brought this up here because the banning of this person was brought up here, and my name in reference to his banning was brought up here. I wanted to clear the air.
I don't ban people. I do report serious infractions, or continued behavior that is an obvious affront to the rules, to the administration. I then leave the matter in their hands to do with it as they wish.
Please understand that a moderator cannot ban anyone.
Every situation is taken to the administration. It is the administration (those who collectively have the name administrator under their name) that have the power to ban people. A moderator has no such power.
Taking that into consideration there is no reason for the general membership to know the reason why. It is none of their business, and only gives an occasion for gossip. They have no recourse to change the adminstration's mind. If you all want to go on strike, well that is your choice.
It is a private board. As I told the said poster: "Posting here is a privilege and not a right," something he didn't respect.
I only brought this up here because the banning of this person was brought up here, and my name in reference to his banning was brought up here. I wanted to clear the air.
I don't ban people. I do report serious infractions, or continued behavior that is an obvious affront to the rules, to the administration. I then leave the matter in their hands to do with it as they wish.
Not a problem. I just thought that the sudden disappearance would cause "gossip" that would be unnecessary if a short statement were given in a designated forum which offered no response ability by the membership.
It occurs to me that the idea was probably suggested, before.
This is simply a definitional argument, defining "love" as something only a regenerate person can do. However, Peter was unregenerate because the Holy Spirit had not been poured out upon Him, yet "loved=philo" Jesus. And this love was accepted by Jesus. So your applesauce theology simply makes mush of God's actually teachings.
Actually that charge is made by Calvinists employing the logical fallacy of attacking me rather than addressing my views.
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His one of a kind Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
So the actual idea is only those born again, regenerated, manifest the unconditional love of God. Those that do not manifest the love of God have not been born again. So yet again, your assertion simply makes applesauce out of scripture, i.e. mush.
Gee, I thought there is no greater love than to lay down your life for another. Why not stick with what scripture actually says. Did Jesus really say loving others because they first loved you is not commendable? Nope. We love God because He first loved us, in that He died for us.
Well what did Jesus actually say? He said even sinners do that (Luke 6:32) and indicates such love does not earn rewards. Rather we are to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Therefore we, born again believers, are to manifest God's love for the lost, whether or not they love us.
So you see, the Bible actually makes sense when you teach what it actually says.
If we do not have the love of God, i.e have no love for the lost because God's love does not abide in us,
we gain nothing.
More personal attacks devoid of merit. Calvinism represents the world's exegetical effort, men rewriting scripture to fit Greek mythology.
Christ died for all mankind. God's election is based on faith in the truth. We love God because He first loved us.
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