What does "chosen" mean?

There cannot be agreement here because the things you speak of upon examination are contrary to grace and man centered

It is a scriptural revealed covenant thing...some denominations see it. It is revealed truth, revealed unto the sheep.

 

Think for me the 2 big questions arms/non cals have to answer in this concept of biblical Election are:

On what basis is God doing election? Due to His Will, our faith, or what?

Can man "freely" come to Christ in order to be elcted, if basis is your own faith?

 

I focused on it because being sanctified is being a saint. Being a saint is being saved and it is through sanctification that we are elect in the first place which shows clearly we are in Him when we are chosen. As in Eph 1:4.

That depends on what point in time was this foreknowledge and in what circumstances. Calvinism would say it was before the foundation of the world but it doesn't say that at all.
This foreknowledge is just as likely to be the moment just before belief when the Spirit was working to convince us and to convict us of our sins.

It stands to reason that if "A" comes through "B", then the "B" it came through, had to exist first. The "B" repersenting sanctification. The "A" repersenting election.

In other words, our election cannot happen until we are at least sanctified or,saved. Because election cannot come unless we are sanctified inorder for it to come through sanctification.

We are all chosen first when Christ died for our sins. He chose us to die for all of the men in the world. We are chosen to be His bride. Yet not all will accept the invitation.
By the way this is the invitation;
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
MB

 

Are you stating that Jesus died for the sins of all, placed all within His corporate Body, and we are the ones who then decide wether to stay saved or not?

That we undo our election in Him?

this seems to be laying the seeds for Universalism....

 

Yes I am

Are you attempting to slander what I did say by your additional comments?
I never said any of the underlined and you know it. Obviously you need to read it over again and show me where I said those vicious lies.
MB

 

Not trying to slander, but to clarify!

You said jesus died for all, that we were all placed into the Body by God, yet some refuse that election...

can you see how it seems to be implying that Giod elected all to be saved because jesus died to atonefor all, reconciling all to the father, andits up to us to reject that election?

 

Well, Now You Have Me Seeing "Red!"

I guess, according to you, I'm really lost in space...thanks for your intellectual enlightenment, but, my theology is just fine without your input, or advice.

I guess we both see His Grace in different shades of RED!(me) RED! (you) :laugh:

BTW - Were you one of the folks that helped to make the "red" letter edition of the KJV so popular??? :sleep: I can actually admire your work :thumbs:

I would say, that we are not in agreement, which is usually the case when it comes to us :smilewinkgrin:

Wow! To claim there is "no-fellowship" seems like apostasy, or borderline heresy at least.!

 

Icon, was that you? I really like my red letter bibles! Thanks! :laugh:

 

I see chosen as a tree. It all started with a seed Israel chosen before the foundation of the world. It grows into a tree with branches. God cut out branches producing bad fruit or no fruit, cut it out for unbelief. He kept a remnant of branches one who are meek and humble who will trust in the Lord. He included other branches and grafted it in when they heard the Gospel of their salvation having believed. Then He grafted back in original branches when they no longer persisted in their unbelief. These branches reach out with the true vine and He produces more fruit.

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the LORD.

John 15
The Vine and the Branches
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

Romans 11:
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

 

To Be chosen for Salvation does not mean you will have it. It only means that you may have the opportunity to be saved but, it requires complete surrender.

No one else misunderstood what I wrote. Please the next time you want to quote me use the quote tool and place what I actually wrote on the board for everyone to see. All you have to do is cut and paste it or hit the quote and the bottom of the post.
MB

 

Still seems to at least me that you are skirting the line of saying that all can be saved/come to Christ, as it all depends upon us, in that God has done all that he potentially could have done, and now fully up to us!

 

Let me be as blunt as I know how.No one is saved with out the working of the Holy Spirit to convince us of Christ and to convict us of sin. The conviction can take us to our knees in submission to the righteousness of God. Romans 10:1-4
Submission is surrender it is giving up the fight.
Man does not come to God with out these three things. Which makes Salvation very conditional.MB

 

what is the distinction between the HS convicting us and HIm regenerating us though?

How can sinful people respond by faith if their very natures "naturally" would reject Christ?

 

Conviction is coming to the realization of one being lost due to their sins. Realizing that w/o God in their life they are going to hell. IOW, conviction is what makes us feel "unclean" before the Lord(and we were as sinners). {All of this is done by the Sprit, btw}

Easy, by God working with them. You need to take regeneration and place it alongside salvation. Regeneration is a "new birth" which is a "new life". Salvation is being saved, and placed in Christ, by His shed blood. These two happen simultaenously, and not "R" before "S".

 

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Sure it does. It does not say you were chosen for a chance to be saved[/B][/QUOTE]

Where are you getting these ideas from?

So...if followed through you are saying God does not save...he just gives us a chance to be saved.
These are not the words you used, and your other post seeks to round this out......but it cannot be both at the same time.

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1733731&postcount=1

 

oic.....ty benjamin.....i answered him in colors, but did not quote him .....I see says the blind man.:thumbsup:
I edited the other post.

 

Convicted1 answered this very well. I admit that men do not seek God by them selves. We can all see this clearly just by looking around.

Conviction is becoming aware of all your sins and feeling the guilt of every sin. The guilt for me got worse the harder I tried to dismiss it. It hurt so bad I will never forget what a sinner I was. I had no conscience at all. No respect for anyone else. No real concern for others at all, not even my parents.

It hurt so bad, I just gave up. I submitted to the righteousness of God. I surrendered everything in my self to my Lord and Savior. I begged for the Lord to forgive me and He took all the guilt away.
MB