Winman,
I notice that romans 3 and romans 5 come before romans 9
Jacob and Esau also died and sinned in Adam.
The text is saying , before they sinned by experience...highlighting that God's elective purpose was not based on anything man does, ordoes not do.
So...once again all you have done is show that you resist truth at all costs.:wavey::wavey:
Of course both Esau and Jacob sinned when they had matured and understood right from wrong, ALL men do. This is when a man is condemned by the law and spiritually dies.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Paul explains here that he would not have known sin if not for the law. Can a one year old child understand the law of God? Of course not, so this child cannot be accountable.
Paul said he was alive once without the law. If a man is born dead in sin as you falsely teach, Paul could NEVER say a man was once alive, but that is exactly what Paul said. He did not say he THOUGHT he was alive as some falsely teach, he said he was alive. But when he matured to the point he could understand the law, then he was convicted by the law and spiritually died, sin slew him.
Calvinism cannot explain scripture like this, so they explain it away.
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Twice Jesus said the prodigal son was "alive again" when he repented and returned to his father. If a man was born dead in sin as many falsely teach, then never could it be said that any man is "alive again", but that is exactly what Jesus himself said. And I am sure Jesus understood proper doctrine!
Those who hold to the false teachings of Augustine cannot comprehend scripture like this, it overthrows their false doctrine. The scriptures say God has made all men upright, but all men go out in sin and become lost (see Luke 15)
God's election is not according to works, it is according to calling, those who respond to God's call in faith. God in his foreknowledge knew Jacob would believe, and Esau would not. Esau did not believe the promises left to his father Isaac and so sold his birthright for a bowl of soup. Jacob did believe the promises given to his father and desired them. God saw this before it ever happened in time.
Abraham answered the "call".
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Election is according to God's calling, those who respond in faith and obey God's call as Abraham did are chosen. Read Matthew 22, many men were called to the king's wedding for his son, but only those who obeyed and came with a wedding robe (the righteousness imputed to those who believe on Jesus) were chosen.