What does "Faith is a Gift" mean?

[37818]

All Biblical God-given faith comes after regeneration of God's elect(chosen before the world began . . .

Not Biblical.

Faith is per,
Psalms 19:4, Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

Per Romans 10:17-18, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[Paleouss]

Good morning Ken. Blessed to speak with you again.

I prefer to not be called "Reformed" nor "Calvinist".

Got it. I'll try and remember that if my memory holds up.

In an article on "Reformed Baptists" on Wikipedia, there is a section entitled, "Sovereign Grace Baptists". Here is some of what it says:

' Sovereign Grace Baptists in the broadest sense are any "Calvinistic" Baptists that accept God's sovereign grace in salvation and predestination. In the narrower sense, certain churches and groups have preferred "Sovereign Grace" in their name, rather than using the terms "Calvinism", "Calvinist", or "Reformed Baptist". '

Also, it says:

' All of these groups generally agree with the Five Points of Calvinism - Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints. Groups calling themselves "Sovereign Grace Baptists" have been particularly influenced by the writings of John Gill in the 18th century. Among American Baptists who have revived such Calvinist ideas were Rolfe P. Barnard and Henry T. Mahan, who organised the first Sovereign Grace Bible Conference in Ashland, Kentucky, in 1954, though groups designated as Sovereign Grace are not necessarily connected to them. '

Sounds good to me. I would think that there are a few nuances besides just the name. But that's another thread.

The mention of Henry T. Mahan strikes home with me as the preacher at Grace Baptist of Ruston, Richard Warmack, heard the gospel of Christ from Henry T, Mahan back in the 1980s, and then I heard the gospel of Christ from Richard in mid-2021.

Nice

Of course, I prefer reading God's Word most of all.

Amen

So what I am reading here in your quote is that you are saying that 'faith' is not technically given but it is technically something that follows from some initial work of the Spirit. I am splitting hairs here and distinguishing between some other position that forwards that 'faith', whatever it is, is given (literally and directly). That is, that faith is the direct gift (something John Calvin says is not correct, Calvin quote below).

I think that is a distinction without a difference.

Is it really a distinction without a difference?

1) God sends the Spirit that brings light (grace) to a man. The man, being enlightened and freed from his blindness now sees his sin and need for salvation. Then (emphases on a transition of rolls), the man submits or rejects this.

I do understand that in the Reformed thought that one might need to distinguish between the General call (will never accept) and the Effectual call (cannot deny). However, assuming an Effectual call, in my #1 above, the man can be said to 'freely' come before good in faith. Especially if one holds as Calvin does that faith is coming 'empty' before the Lord. The #1 above establishes that there is a part for man, i.e., faith (which scripture frequently says this is so). And we have also upheld the phrase 'by grace through faith and not of works'.

2) God sends the Spirit to give light and faith to a man.

In the #2, God gives both light and faith. Faith now is 'given' and not simply man's part that has been actualized by the enlightenment of the Spirit so then he can freely come to Him. This formulation, that has no distinction from #1 in result, does have a distinction in roles. In #1 God's call might be said to be irresistible, yet the man still is said to be free to choose (for it is his part). In #2, man has no part. Not logically anyway. #2 is a formulation that ends logically by saying that any theology saying man brings faith is works based.

It seems that John Calvin, the very foundation of Reformed thought, thought the distinction was worth making. The very foundation in which John Gill stood to do his work.

Great conversation friend.

Peace to you and your family

 

[Paleouss]

Salvation is 100% by God's grace, and 0% by man's efforts or contribution. Period. To say that salvation is not 100% by God's grace, and that man contributes to his own salvation by his own efforts, is to teach a false gospel in which there is no salvation.

Greetings again Ken.

First I would like to agree with you that all the Glory and Honor of salvation goes to God. Mankind can claim none of it.

I would like to point out the points that you may be talking past what others (or I) am saying (not speaking for everyone). John Calvin, I keep bringing him up because I think he has it right here and he IS Calvinism. Calvin says that the man has a part and that it is faith, and that faith is to "come before God empty" (Calvin). Thus, Calvin says that God has his part 100% and mankind has his part which is coming empty (which means he contributes 0%). Thus, it's all God.

Notice Calvin says something similar but with a huge difference. That is, he claims there is a 100% and 0% ratio also. But at the same time upholds those parts of the scripture that say man must have faith, man receives by faith, etc. Calvin, who is Calvinism at its roots, says man has a part which by his formulation of faith being an 'emptiness', makes man's part 0%.

Peace to you brother.

 

[Van]

Since individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, then our faith in Christ provides our access to God's grace, Romans 5:1-2. We are made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5) thus we are regenerated, made alive, after God credits our faith as righteousness and transfers us into Christ, Colossians 1:13.

 

[KenH]

The #1 above establishes that there is a part for man

Only after being enabled to do so by the power of God after the Holy Spirit regenerates God's elect under the preaching the gospel of Christ, such as when I heard Richard Warmack preach the gospel of Christ in mid-2021.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[KenH]

But at the same time upholds those parts of the scripture that say man must have faith, man receives by faith

Per Romans 10:17-18, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

The issue is not that God's elect after the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit come to have to faith in the finished work of Christ as the LORD their Righteousness and repent of their dead works, the issue is that man will not have faith in the finished work of Christ as the LORD their Righteousness and repent of their dead works unless the Holy Spirit first regenerates them and make them a new creature by giving them spiritual life.

 

[Van]

Since individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, then our faith in Christ provides our access to God's grace, Romans 5:1-2. We are made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5) thus we are regenerated, made alive, after God credits our faith as righteousness and transfers us into Christ, Colossians 1:13.

Sometimes false teachers call their doctrine of Irresistible Grace the "Gift of Faith" referring to a pre-salvation instillation of God given faith in the individuals supposedly chosen unconditionally before creation. This claim is of course false six ways from Sunday.

1) God's general and special revelation are gifts which we, as lost people, either rejected in whole or in part, or fully embraced. Thus the opportunity to place our faith in Christ is indeed a gift that not all people receive. For example, aborted babies.

2) Once saved (and born anew and indwelt) the Holy Spirit may bestow the "Gift of faith" upon some believers. But this post salvation gift cannot be conflated with our choice to believe to gain access to God's grace, Romans 5:1-2.

3) When are individuals chosen for salvation, before creation or after they have lived not as a people chosen for God's own possession? After, see 1 Peter 2:9-10. So there is no actual support for "unconditional election for salvation before creation of individuals. Rather Ephesians 1:4 refers to God choosing His Redeemer before creation, and therefore, God corporately chose those His Redeemer would redeem.

4) When God chooses individuals, during their physical lifetime, He chooses them "through faith in the truth" thus a conditional election for salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

5) When God chooses individuals, during their physical lifetime, He chooses individuals some of which were poor in the eyes of the world, yet rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. James 2:5

6) God chooses individuals whose faith He credits as righteousness, so it is our faith, as flawed or imperfect as it may be, that God deems sufficient for His purpose, thus salvation does not depend on the person who wills or works to be saved, but upon God alone who determines who actually believes for the purpose of salvation.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Greetings all. So as the title says, what is meant by the position "faith is a gift from God"? Looking for more of an unpacking of the statement. It seems to me that many say the phrase but there is some theological unpacking that needs to go on to understand what they are saying.

How about you?

(Eph 2:8 KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

I am thankful for "the gift of God", I didn't earn it and I don't deserve it. I gratefully accept it!

 

[Silverhair]

(Eph 2:8 KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

I am thankful for "the gift of God", I didn't earn it and I don't deserve it. I gratefully accept it!

Salvation is the gift of God which we receive through faith.

Man cannot save himself, only God can save:
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[JD731]

Greetings all. So as the title says, what is meant by the position "faith is a gift from God"? Looking for more of an unpacking of the statement. It seems to me that many say the phrase but there is some theological unpacking that needs to go on to understand what they are saying.

How about you?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

This is the only verse in the 66 books of the KJV that has the words, faith, gift, and God in the same verse. Then one will notice it is not "a" gift that is being singled out but "the" gift of God. The Reformed goes to great lengths to insist the gift of God in this passage is faith but language beginning in Eph 2:1 through verse 8 will not permit that interpretation. One can only reach the conclusion that salvation is THE gift of God and it is through faith that the gift is given.

There are three members of the Godhead that are discussed in Ephesians, God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of God. Each of the members have different functional roles in forming this body that began as a Jewish body but is now including gentiles. This is the mystery of Christ this epistle is revealing in a letter by the one to whom the revelation of the mystery was given particularly, Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. The year is 60 AD.

There can not be any NT church body formed without Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit but the one person of the Godhead who is the Judge of all the earth and the one who gives salvation to all those who have it is God the Father.

Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

This is particularly God the Father in context.

Ro 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

This is particularly Jesus Christ.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This is "THE" gift of God because he is the life of God and eternal who Jesus poured out of his own body after taking sin away.

This is what God promised after the bodily resurrection of Christ.

Ac 1:4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Where?

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Who is he?

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Spirit gives gifts but it is different from the Father as much as singular is different than plural. THe Father gives one gift to those in the world who will receive it/him. The Spirit gives ministry gifts to those in the body of Christ whom he has placed there when they are born again.

I hope this helps. May our Lord be magnified and lifted up by these comments.

 

[Van]

Yes, the gift addressed in Ephesians 2:8 is the gift of salvation by God's grace. And this grace is accessed through our faith in the truth if God credits our faith as righteousness. Romans 5:1-2.

 

[Paleouss]

This is the only verse in the 66 books of the KJV that has the words, faith, gift, and God in the same verse. Then one will notice it is not "a" gift that is being singled out but "the" gift of God. The Reformed goes to great lengths to insist the gift of God in this passage is faith but language beginning in Eph 2:1 through verse 8 will not permit that interpretation. One can only reach the conclusion that salvation is THE gift of God and it is through faith that the gift is given.

Greeting JD731. Thank you for your insights.

I wanted to point out, even though I have done so in another post, that although some of the "Reformed" do contend that Eph 2:8 refers to faith being the gift. John Calvin, the beginnings of the Reformed movement (I think most would agree to that), didn't think that the gift in Eph 2:8 was referring to faith.

John Calvin writes...

“And here we must advert to a very common error in the interpretation of this passage. Many persons restrict the word gift to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating in other words the former sentiment. His meaning is, not that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God, or, that we obtain it by the gift of God.” -- John Calvin Commentaries, Eph 2:8-9

Peace to you brother.

 

[Silverhair]

Greeting JD731. Thank you for your insights.

I wanted to point out, even though I have done so in another post, that although some of the "Reformed" do contend that Eph 2:8 refers to faith being the gift. John Calvin, the beginnings of the Reformed movement (I think most would agree to that), didn't think that the gift in Eph 2:8 was referring to faith.

John Calvin writes...


Peace to you brother.

Actually for the beginnings you have to go further back. Augustine was the one that brought the C/R views into the church.

 

[JD731]

Greeting JD731. Thank you for your insights.

I wanted to point out, even though I have done so in another post, that although some of the "Reformed" do contend that Eph 2:8 refers to faith being the gift. John Calvin, the beginnings of the Reformed movement (I think most would agree to that), didn't think that the gift in Eph 2:8 was referring to faith.

John Calvin writes...


Peace to you brother.

I have conversed with the Reformed for many years and the "T.U.L.I P." with it's Total Depravity doctrine, meaning the sinner is dead spiritually and cannot believe God because of that condition, requires that faith to believe God must be given, and so they make the case it is given through regeneration, meaning the sinner must be given life from God in order to have the capacity to believe.. This seems to be the reason Calvinism insists on faith being a gift of God in Ephesians 2:8. It is the only verse in the Bible that can even be twisted to make that argument.

 

[Paleouss]

with it's Total Depravity doctrine

For me I would say it is the concept of Total Depravity that has drifted toward Utter Depravity. Further, another component that seeps into this is the concept of 'Not Of Works' that has drifted toward 'Man can have no part, including faith'.

Peace to you brother